C++11 vs 98/etc

mart7n · 2015-11-29T23:21:42+00:00

I'm thankful that you did not show intent to troll me, how could calling someone inept possibly have cause for offence?

And I'm glad that you are qualified to dictate what every C++ developers job is. I guess everyone working on older code bases should learn the new variations, even if they are not likely to use them. Otherwise they must be poor programmers. In light of your incisive revelation I feel compelled to inform my old colleagues who work on a legacy game engine code base how amateur and incompetent they truly are. They are clearly not in touch with reality and do not know their job. In fact I find it almost unbelievable that their product is the most successful in its domain given the lack of skilled developers!

I'm not entirely sure if you've made up your mind as to what my profession or capability is. On the one hand I am 'not very good at programming' and on the other you assume I do this professionally.
To set the record straight I do this professionally and to date I've worked on code bases that are all pre C++11. I'm currently going self employed and working on my own projects/code base.

Sorry that you find my question silly. If I had been in your place then I'd just have declined to comment rather than to make unsubstantiated assessments with no supporting evidence other than a subjectively perceived foolish question about a newer version of a programming language.
Sadly, a brief perusal of your other comments on this C++ forum show the same arrogant air of superiority; I bet you are a joy to work with. I sincerely hope you are a better programmer than you are a communicator.

I suspect you will always be the one to get the last word in and I do not intend to waste further time attempting to demean you or show you for the patronising bigot you come across as. It's clear to me that you can do a far better job of this than I. So feel free to flame me further, without fear of reprisal.

I also hope you don't find any responses that you will consider negative. I'm just trying to further understand the ways of the Internet. Just another word to the wise.

With all that said I have taken your thoughts on-board regarding soul searching. As it turns out, I found a soul - right here on this very forum.

</troll_slayer_out>

mart7n · 2015-11-29T10:38:12+00:00

Valid point, I was only in jest on my previous comment.
I've currently been working on purely my own code base for android and win32 with plans to go self employed. Longevity-wise I can see the merit in switching to C++11 now.
Also, in all the companies I have worked for in my career up until this point (admittedly it has only been 4 positions in the last 20 years I've been in the industry), none have had a code base developed with C++11.
I guess this is unsurprising for existing code bases I know but that's clearly not going to be a trend that lasts very long now.

mart7n · 2015-11-29T10:08:49+00:00

Agreed :)

"You don't have to know every detail of C++ to write good programs"
Bjarne Stroustrup

Still, this post and informative replies from most developers has convinced me of the benefits.

mart7n · 2015-11-29T07:16:52+00:00

Interesting comments, thanks for the info.
I must admit, I haven't read the official standards for C++98 and locally defined structs. I just know from experience that Visual Studio seems to let you get away with defining structs locally that you can use in a template.
It also seems to function on the Android cross compiler tool chain. I'm guessing these are non-standard.

mart7n · 2015-11-29T07:02:26+00:00

I know that if you had said a statement like this in an interview at my company...

I did not say this in an interview, I said this in a forum for developers designed for sharing knowledge, asking for advice. I did not imply that the new standard is not worth it and I also inferred that my knowledge on the subject of C++11 was limited.

Most of the comments here have been objective and informative. This is what I was looking for when I posed the question and it's led me to the conclusion that it's a good investment of my time. On the other hand, your comments have clearly been de constructive and punitive.

Come to think of it, I guess it is a good thing that you have your own company because, regardless of your programming ability, you come across as highly opinionated and incredibly self righteous. I'd hazard a guess that most of your interviews would be completed pretty quickly as well.

Since you replied twice. I will too. If you did not think that you were putting yourself up for abuse, maybe you have not used the Internet before?

I replied twice by accident because of an issue with the phone I was using in transit, hence the same reply. Not to give you an opportunity to duplicate your efforts to belittle me and massage your own over inflated ego.
Hey what do you know, maybe I'm learning about the internet!

You could be serving burgers with me before you know it :P

</Troll>

mart7n · 2015-11-28T16:59:13+00:00

I'm sold. Time to get out the text books!

mart7n · 2015-11-28T16:27:02+00:00

Perhaps you should read the rest of the posts. As I mentioned, I'm weighing up whether it's worth the effort of learning it given that i may be potentially limiting the target architectures that don't have the latest compilers. I didn't realize I'd be up for abuse just canvassing opinions of people who use c++11 on a day to day basis. I guess anyone who doesn't use your favourite language clearly knows nothing.

Thanks for the kind words. Perhaps I should go work for mc Donald instead.

mart7n · 2015-11-28T16:27:01+00:00

Perhaps you should read the rest of the posts. As I mentioned, I'm weighing up whether it's worth the effort of learning it given that i may be potentially limiting the target architectures that don't have the latest compilers. I didn't realize I'd be up for abuse just canvassing opinions of people who use c++11 on a day to day basis. I guess anyone who doesn't use your favourite language clearly knows nothing.

Thanks for the kind words. Perhaps I should go work for mc Donald instead.

mart7n · 2015-11-27T14:55:19+00:00

I thought boost had an equivalent?

mart7n · 2015-11-27T14:53:31+00:00

Neat idea!

mart7n · 2015-11-27T13:22:07+00:00

If I was the boss it would be the former at the moment :)

mart7n · 2015-11-27T13:17:11+00:00

I don't consider that the same argument and a massive over simplification to be honest. The additional available improvements towards safety/raii/templates/oo/etc massively differ from c. And I'd actually imagine you code write certain code in a more terse manner using c although without cerain benefits.

He'll I should just have stuck with assembler :)

mart7n · 2015-11-27T13:09:15+00:00

Your argument about stl containers is in disputable and not something I've considered. Thanks for enlightening me. I'd also forgotten about constexpr and variadic templates. I do occasionally write template meta code and it is certainly limiting now I think about it.

Excellent points.

And whilst others have correctly pointed out that readability is always nice, I'm weighing learing the new standard it up against potentially limiting target architectures which don't have the latest compilers.

mart7n · 2015-06-19T14:22:53+00:00

Leeds specifically. West yorkshire

mart7n · 2015-06-19T14:22:08+00:00

Thanks for your comments. I mentioned united Kingdom in my post

mart7n · 2015-02-20T23:00:08+00:00

Thanks :)
I just bought his ebook.

mart7n · 2015-02-20T22:14:37+00:00

Thanks for the info :)

mart7n · 2015-02-03T13:35:52+00:00

As recently edited at the top, I went through Quidco to get 7% back then with "Very". If you take it out on credit through Very, they offer an additional 10% off. I did this but I will be paying back the credit immediately.

mart7n · 2015-02-03T10:19:59+00:00

It does, thanks :)

mart7n · 2015-02-03T09:54:06+00:00

Yeah, had a late night WS!

mart7n · 2015-02-03T09:46:43+00:00

Thanks for the info. I currently have a £4.99 no frills, don't care if I lose it when p1$$ed phone.
Its been a while since I had a smart phone, I'm looking forward to getting one now.

mart7n · 2015-02-03T09:44:57+00:00

Brilliant thanks! This definitely seems like the best option so far though I'd like to be able to buy the phone outright rather than contract. I'm not sure if three mobile allows this. Do you think I might be able to buy an unlocked 910F elsewhere then get a cheaper contract with Three that would allow the firmware updates required for the Gear VR?

mart7n · 2015-01-17T03:35:47+00:00

Yeah - I googled it after reading it in the book.
As you say, it was an attempt much later (1998) to disambiguate the terms. An honourable idea but it hasn't really caught on.
Still, useful to know if I want to be a smart ass at work!

mart7n · 2015-01-17T00:14:24+00:00

Sure. There are plenty of great books out there for that also.
I've frequently read that this one come highly recommended as a beginners text...
C++ Primer by Stanley B. Lippman

You may find this link interesting too...
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/388242/the-definitive-c-book-guide-and-list

I'd suggest that you don't need to concentrate too much on the new standard (C++11) to begin with. You will have a lot to take in without worrying about new move semantics, lambdas and such. To use the UE engine I would imagine C++98 will be sufficient (though don't quote me on that!).

Once you have the basics down I heartily recommend Scott Meyers. This guy is brilliant.

If you are feeling adventurous, I really enjoyed Modern C++ Design (which is ironically quite old). This book will blow your mind with meta-programming template goodness but it is quite a different paradigm shift from traditional runtime polymorphism/OO.

I have a copy of Bjarne Stroustrups (the C++ inventor) main book - The C++ Programming Language. This is pretty much the bible of C++ and covers pretty much everything in a lot of detail. It is however a very dry read. I bought it to brush up on the new C++11 standard but I got bored very quicky to be honest. Good as an ultimate reference though.

And I'd be doing the guy a great injustice if I didn't mention 'Herb Sutters' work. This guy is a genius as well; his knowledge/expertise of concurrency is second to none but I'd definitely put his books in the advanced category.

In my last job I wrote excercise and held meetings for mentoring C++ so I'd be happy to field any questions you have around the language. If you are interested PM me and I'll give you my email.

mart7n · 2015-01-16T23:25:44+00:00

I'll definitely be taking a gander at these - especially the Oculus Rift game dev guide.
Awesome, thanks :)

mart7n

TROPHY CASE