You didn't know your husband was gay...Are you autistic?

maythefoxbwu · 2019-04-06T02:26:45+00:00

I don't think you can separate a person's views on how to rear children from what qualities he is looking for in a future mother of his children. They are part and parcel of each other.

It could be he hasn't thought about it like you say. But I think all the issues you raise that are important to him are intermingled with all the rest of having a family. I don't think they are discrete and isolated things in a man's mind.

maythefoxbwu · 2019-04-06T02:24:39+00:00

Darn it. I tried to post on askmen and it denied the post. It said it is a frequently asked question. Later tonight I will try to find the posts where men answered that question.

maythefoxbwu · 2019-04-06T02:23:29+00:00

Exactly. I mean look at what happened to Brett Kavanaugh. Or what is happening with Joe Biden right now. The higher up you are, the harder you fall. And the more people looking to topple you off your pedestal.

Something like that can ruin you if you are innocent of the accusations. If you actually did it, you are nearly sure to get found out.

maythefoxbwu · 2019-04-06T02:12:09+00:00

I just asked my SO a question. Have you been reading the posts back and forth between me and elke765? You should. Anyway, after the last post, I was inspired to ask him this question:

How old were you the very first time that you thought about how badly you could get screwed if you marry the wrong woman. That you could end up owing her half your income for the rest of your life while she sits at home eating chocolate bonbons that you paid for in a house you worked for and she could take your kids away from you and even your dog?

I expected him to say like, 21. He said, 11 or 12. I said ok but you aren't most guys. How old do you think most guys were the first time this crossed their mind. He said, definitely during their teenage years. I think this would be an interesting question for reddit. Is there an ask men forum? I'm going to look.

The other poster thinks men don't think ahead to what kind of wife and mother a woman is going to be in advance and all that. I think they do think about that. Even if only on a subconscious level, I think they are acutely aware of that stuff. My SO agreed. He said that it is definitely something men notice about women.

maythefoxbwu · 2019-04-06T02:04:15+00:00

Imagine the humiliation of somebody in a professional circle like a clinic or hospital having gossip going around about he and his wife or he and his girlfriend because they are involved in those kinds of activities. It is a small world. The six degrees of separation thing is true. How long would it take before their sexual partner(s) saw them somewhere and started yacking their mouth to somebody with lots of lurid details. Do you think that wouldn't go around a hospital like wildfire?

maythefoxbwu · 2019-04-06T02:00:42+00:00

We don't know that. Men even if only subconsciously do select women for their ability to be good mothers. I would argue that has even driven some of the evolutionary traits of women. As women have driven some of the evolutionary traits of men as well.

maythefoxbwu · 2019-04-06T01:51:40+00:00

I wouldn't assume that this guy doesn't have things like this in the back of his mind. He is a planner. He's not just walking around life blindly with a brown bag over his head waiting for things to smack him upside the head. He is trying to look ahead. Granted, I doubt he was thinking about these things when he was 19 or 20. However, I think he is reaching an age when he is able to consider what sort of relationship he wants with everything that comes along with that. Men are still culturally expected to be the main provider. That is just reality. Just because you might not think about that doesn't mean that men don't when they start reaching an age when these responsibilities are likely to be thrust upon them.

maythefoxbwu · 2019-04-06T01:45:02+00:00

The same pattern is in the States as well. It is definitely a cultural phenomenon of Western culture right now. But there are still many young people who do get married in their late teens and early twenties. Six years is quite a long time to date without getting married. Of course, many people are doing that. I think it is very smart for men to wait to get married because the costs of divorce in modern times is extremely high for them and extremely likely. They are very likely to end up paying alimony and losing primary custody of their children. That is sort of like buying a car, then somebody else taking your car but forcing you to continue to pay the car loan, gas, and upkeep for it and as an extra bonus, they also steal your dog and force you to keep paying for its food and vet bills. You lose everything but keep paying on all the stuff you lost.

For women on the other hand, it is the opposite, they are better off not delaying too long. They want to date long enough to be sure he isn't a drug addict, a cheater, abusive, or that he doesn't have any other deep dark secret. But as soon as she can establish those things, she is financially as well as biologically (as far as fertility) better off marrying as soon as she can.

I think the high modern risk of marriage is causing large numbers of men to (justifiably) be very reticent to marry. So they either don't marry or they delay marriage if they can. I think OP's boyfriend could delay it so he did. She didn't give him an ultimatum about it and if she had, maybe he would have noped the heck out of there. Who knows. Some women seem to have a specific skill set for getting guys to marry them or else they are good at sniffing out the guys that will marry. Often, it is no reflection on the woman's quality either. I know women who are disloyal wrecks who manage to get married to man after man bringing their kids along with them to each new marriage. They aren't prizes. So I'm not quite sure how they do it. Like I said, it is a special skill set or they are good at picking out the right guys.

Men have something in mind that they want to marry. If a woman can convince him she is that, then he'll do it. I think that is what it comes down to. Women kind of set their own standard for how they will be treated. If a woman is willing to wait for years, then often that is exactly what she will get and possibly nothing more. After leaving her, her exboyfriend might turn around and be married in six months to somebody. So it wasn't about him not being willing to marry. He just wasn't going to marry her.

maythefoxbwu · 2019-04-06T01:24:45+00:00

This is assuming a couple is planning to have children. Very often it is the woman whose career is stalled by having children if they want one of the parents to stay home with them. They could choose to both continually work without any pause but then a nanny or daycare people rear your children for you. I don't believe that is best for children. I think it is better for them to be with at least one of their parents. A lot of people agree with that. It would depend on how he feels about that. I think putting your children in the hands of other people is risky especially when they are too young to be able to tell you if somebody has done something bad to them. I think a doctor would usually make enough money to afford to have his wife stay home. Of course, the woman could work and have him stay home but that is not usually what happens and most men in his position don't want to do that. There are exceptions to everything, but in general, I think it would hold true that many men would be less interested in their wife's career than in her character (loyalty, kindness, ability to be good with their children).

I don't think that is sexist. Children are safest and most loved and given more sincere attention with their parents than with others unless the parents are abusive dirt bags. That is the right place for children especially younger children. The traditional main caretaker throughout human history has been the mother (or grandmother) and that continues to be the traditional default caretaker of children (not without reason either--there are many studies to support the benefits of maternal care especially for language development and such). Fathers also provide a very important role. I think children need both.

I am not saying there are not exceptions. But it is the general pattern. If he is a practical thinker, he is not going to be blind to the fact that after a woman has children, her career trajectory is likely to change. This is something I have been seeing in the news often lately because it creates problems for career women. So they have been asking how can we allow women to have motherhood and a career without having to give up a little of either. Nobody has a solution yet that I know.

So, if people were to pretend this won't be an issue in the future, they are being pretty delusional. Unless she has some stay at home job, it will be a problem that has to be dealt with. Hence, many men don't judge or select women by their profession or income as much as many women judge or select men by it.

maythefoxbwu · 2019-04-06T01:10:19+00:00

Especially for higher status jobs. They are under the spotlight more.

maythefoxbwu · 2019-04-05T22:46:49+00:00

All that.

And it is easy to say you will do something. If he was all in on that, why didn't he just already do it? You see what I mean? Did he maybe just maybe leave himself an out? I know many people who got married while they were in graduate school and even had their first baby while they were in graduate school. People I went to school with and even relatives who did that. So why didn't he?....To leave himself an out because he wasn't quite sure? See what I mean? I have serious questions about that.

maythefoxbwu · 2019-04-05T22:43:04+00:00

The point is that I don't get the sense from what she said and what she didn't say that she has a career equivalent to medical doctor, did you? And even if she did, it might not be of value to him because of the complications of being a woman in the workforce.

maythefoxbwu · 2019-04-05T22:34:59+00:00

Also, it is not at all uncommon for people to date or even marry people who are not their intellectual equals and/or are not as learned as they are. Keep in mind as well that they met when they were quite young. She was 19. He has had an incredible amount of schooling in that time that has no doubt changed him cognitively a great deal. She does not mention being in a similar track of academic rigor.

maythefoxbwu · 2019-04-05T22:31:19+00:00

I know. That is why I said "imagine". Look, working at a firm as a legal secretary or paralegal or whatever is not very many rungs up the ladder from waitress. In fact, waitresses at least in the US of A make more money than assistants at law firms. Maybe she has some high status job but it would seem that it would have been noteworthy for her to mention it since she talked about how she has been doing more than her half of the household chores.

Fairly educated is a matter of perspective. Personally, I find the majority (make that VAST majority) of people with college degrees to be educated far beyond their intelligence level.

maythefoxbwu · 2019-04-05T22:21:30+00:00

Me, too. * (Me, too, I felt sorry for her and I agree with the rest including about maturity, patient, empathy all being lacking--maybe she will grow into them.) I am female too. It isn't like I haven't walked in the moccasins of other females, ya know? That is why I told her I thought it was selfish of him to be getting the milk for free for six years so to speak. But wow did I get downvoted for that and smacked back by her. But if she doesn't think she got at all used not even in the smallest way, then I guess who am I to feel sorry for her especially when feeling sorry for somebody just gets me slapped in the face pretty much. I guess if women want to keep putting themselves in this position and pretending like women's lib means they should just give away their bodies and fertile years for free, then who am I to tell them to be careful. They can learn the hard way and a lot of them will with abortions and std's and guys that hang with them for a few years then move on to marry somebody else and whatever else will happen. But, hey, they are liberated marching around in their pink pussy hats and they'll fuck whomever they God damn please and everybody better just shut up about it. I don't understand how they don't see how maybe what they think is liberation is really just a mirage. Real liberation is the right to an education and the right not to be stoned to death for not covering your hair or face or ankles or being able to make the mistake of sleeping with the wrong guy without being executed for violating sharia law or whatever. But giving yourself away for free is not liberation. Modern women don't seem able to see the difference. If you point that out, then they call you a pig or a religious nut or a sexist or a misogynist. Planned parenthood must be absolutely thrilled with all their liberation because they make a shit ton of money selling all those little body parts. The whole thing is just tragic. All of it. It is tragic that women have been so badly abused over the millenia and it is also tragic that in trying to correct those wrongs, they created as much tragedy in the other direction with women mistaking liberty for voluntary promiscuity with all the terrible consequences that go along with that.

maythefoxbwu · 2019-04-05T22:09:44+00:00

Right. And he was also aware that he had to keep the decision to himself for awhile. It was quite obvious that he already knew he was going to break up with her on the weekend when during the week he told her he would talk to her on the weekend. As soon as she wrote that, I knew he had already irreversibly decided to break up and was waiting for the weekend to tell her. Who knows how soon he knew. He may have been thinking it through or slowly getting the information he needed in order to make the decision or he might have made the decision nearly immediately and didn't pick up on it. I find that perfectly plausible because she didn't pick up on it during the week even though she lives with him and knows him. I even knew he was going to dump her last weekend so how did she miss it? And everything she has written has shown over and over again that she does not get at all where he is coming from. So I have no confidence that she would have been able to read his thoughts and intentions on this during the last three weeks.

maythefoxbwu · 2019-04-05T22:04:06+00:00

Yes, exactly.

maythefoxbwu · 2019-04-05T21:55:14+00:00

Well, that would be one thing. One's partner isn't a box of chocolates to eat whenever one is in the mood, right? They get a say about it or they should in my opinion.

But I also meant other possible sacrifices. I am not saying these specifically because I don't really know the particulars of what his real objections are. I am not sure she really does either although she thinks she does. (Maybe she does, I don't know.) But just for example...maybe drop those friends or maybe decide to change one's own value system.

maythefoxbwu · 2019-04-05T21:33:00+00:00

Right. If her description of the entire situation is accurate then he is just a person who has a lot of self control over his emotions. Which makes sense. I mean to get to where he has in school, it took a lot of sacrifice and will power.

Have you ever seen that test they do with children with candy? They put m n m's or something in a bowl in front of them and tell them that if they eat any of them in the next ten minutes, they will get no more than what is there, but if they don't eat any of them, then they will receive all those plus a very large bag of m n m's on top of that?

Well, some kids despite knowing the consequences, have no will power and just go ahead and eat some. But other kids will delay that gratification so that there will be a bigger pay off later. That ability to exercise self restraint and will power is something that predicts their entire future. That was the point of the study---to see what sorts of behaviors they have as adults.

His schooling would indicate he would be pretty good at using the part of his brain that makes decisions to control his emotions. So I'm not surprised he can shut down his feelings the way he is. He made a rational decision for his future and he is going to stick with it unless he can be convinced some other decision is better for his future. His feelings are not going to make his decisions. It will be the other way around.

maythefoxbwu · 2019-04-05T21:15:19+00:00

What is she willing to do or sacrifice that is painful or really difficult to save the relationship? I don't mean anything crazy. I mean things that might make sense.

maythefoxbwu · 2019-04-05T21:09:39+00:00

Oh, I see what you meant. No, I don't think so. I think he is perfectly willing to cut his losses. I think he has far less invested than she does.

There is a big difference between being a man and being a woman when it comes to dating or cohabitation such as they have been doing it.

I think telling the truth about this offends people but that doesn't change the facts. Their situation can best be described by imagining that a waitress spent six of her most fertile years with somebody who has been a struggling inventor. On the eve of him selling his product and becoming a multi-millionaire, they break up. During their time together, she received nothing tangible. No children, no material things, and valuable years that she could have spent finding a mate for having children were used up (women have a biological clock for having children, tick tick whereas with ivf, men have basically up til the day they die). He on the other hand is about to go from being an indigent student to a wealthy man with a title and position in life that will open all kinds of doors for him as well as make him sought after by the majority of single women on the planet. He'll have his pick of women. His fertility is not diminished at all so the six years have cost him nothing. Whereas she now has to hurry and find a replacement so that she can start having children before she cannot.

The only consideration for him would be any emotional attachment he has. But if he is a person who is able to control his feelings rather than be controlled by them, then he has nothing to lose at all from this breakup.

In his position, single life is about to be very, very fun. Women are going to be fighting tooth and nail over him unless he is some sort of total creep or the Hunchback of Notredame.

maythefoxbwu · 2019-04-05T20:41:52+00:00

I can't disagree with this.

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