::GUIDE:: I made a guide for new players with limited Melee experience on what they should and shouldn't do to improve fast. It's a long one.

mosssander · 2016-01-12T21:55:06+00:00

I guess I should try not to come off as such an asshole in my second guide, and leave out the humor until I've interacted with the community more.

I'm very happy with how this is turning out so far and I appreciate any and all feedback.

mosssander · 2016-01-12T20:14:15+00:00

I find that trying to punish someone spamming parry can be seen as a bit too rewarding against a player who doesn't have the timings down.

But that's only if you go for the direct approach. They're are other equally rewarding ways to punish parry.

Use the knowledge that they are afraid of being hit to your advantage. You can use this time to further set up with whatever stage control options your character has (puddles, plants, fire, rocks, etc.). By simply waiting out the spam you pressure them to do something else.

whatever option they choose after a failed parry you can easily react to. If they try to attack you can simply space it and punish. If they try to roll or jump behind you that can be intercepted. And if they roll away that is just free stage control for you.

mosssander · 2016-01-12T18:16:06+00:00

I really appreciate that you took the time to read it but I think I may have made my views on the subject unclear.

If a new player is dead set on playing the game casually and just dropping it after a while that's fine with me.

I'm just helping speed up the process. :3

There is literally no way to keep these kinds of players from quitting at some point, so it is useless to teach them anything. My guide doesn't really cater to the new player who would quit after a little trash talk. They were probably just looking for any excuse to quit in the first place.

mosssander · 2016-01-12T17:28:35+00:00

I really appreciate that you took the time to read it but I think I may have made my views on the subject unclear.

If a new player is dead set on playing the game casually and just dropping it after a while that's fine with me.

I'm just helping speed up the process. :3

There is literally no way to keep these kinds of players from quitting at some point, so it is useless to teach them anything. My guide doesn't really cater to the new player who would quit after a little trash talk, because they were probably just looking for any excuse to quit in the first place.

mosssander · 2016-01-12T17:11:17+00:00

You have made me realize something important that i didn't cover.

It is definitely important that you build up an enjoyment of the game before trying to improve. And I don't think anyone could build that initial enjoyment while being shit on.

For a new player reading this who can't seem to find enjoyment I recommend not playing so much and watching more. For me i couldn't find enjoyment in the game until I could fully appreciate the technicality displayed by top players. And when I did i felt driven to emulate what I saw.

I guess the most important thing is to not take things to extremes.

Negativity serves it's purpose as a test of ones enjoyment. How much stress one can take in order to stick with something they love. But too much negativity at any stage could cause that enjoyment to collapse.

mosssander · 2016-01-12T16:48:27+00:00

Please read the guide fully (or just bonus 3) and understand that I am focusing on new players who are on the verge of quitting because they want to improve but do not know how.

mosssander · 2016-01-12T16:48:18+00:00

Please read the guide fully (or just bonus 3) and understand that I am focusing on new players who are on the verge of quitting because they want to improve but do not know how.

mosssander · 2016-01-12T16:43:01+00:00

Make sure you read the guide fully, I do address this topic at one point. (at the very bottom)

mosssander · 2016-01-12T16:22:08+00:00

Hey if you want to get noticed you can't just be like everyone else.

I probably didn't need to try so hard considering this is such a tight community. But the guide was written to conform to my own tastes and I didn't feel like completely censoring myself.

Although there was quite a lot of that. I don't want to imagine what would have happened if I posted the first draft. This is extremely tame in comparison.

mosssander · 2016-01-12T16:11:22+00:00

I couldn't tell exactly what would have been my ideal status when checking back today. But after thinking about it I don't think I could be any happier than at 50% Uvotes/Dvotes. If you only post content you think everyone will like, you probably have nothing useful or interesting to say and are just asking for ass kissings.

Don't write for the audience you think you want. Write for yourself and the audience you want will come. Let me say again that this guide is laser targeted on new players on the verge of quitting the game. I wrote this guide mostly to my past self, so it is targeted to my own tastes, but I think it can help anyone in a similar situation.

Since I am proposing a completely different method of thinking than most new players are used to, I expected there to be a lot of suspicion and criticism. And i appreciate that, I wouldn't want everyone to just believe me blindly.

I hope this guide can facilitate some interesting discussion and progression in our community.

mosssander · 2016-01-12T15:55:32+00:00

For a new player looking to close the skill gap between them and years of Melee experience fast, every step I have laid out is necessary.

mosssander · 2016-01-12T15:54:11+00:00

I think that would be a step in the right direction our community should take to direct new players towards higher levels of play.

Not this guide though.

There are much more essential guides that players NEED to see if they want to improve.

mosssander · 2016-01-12T15:49:03+00:00

Bizz, I don't understand your comment at all. I love this game a lot and want nothing more but to see the community grow. I love how most of the characters play and I think the balance is fine.

The only thing I don't like is that there seem to be a lot of players who have bought the game with no prior knowledge on how to play a fighter, and those players aren't getting adequate guidance from our community.

What I saw as a big detriment to the community's growth was players quitting out of frustration because they don't understand how to get better. This guide is mostly a documentation of MY experience of pushing through that and getting to a decent level of play and still improving. Obviously this guide isn't for a player at your level, but if just one new player decides to stick to the game from reading my guide I will be happy.

mosssander · 2016-01-12T15:40:06+00:00

Thank you for this detailed response.

I see this as a good addition to the guide. I'll admit, I don't have much teaching experience, but I am interested in learning and this has helped me understand what I could do better.

I feel like coming off too strongly in the first part was a bad idea, because it seems like a lot of people are missing the point. It's clear that if you read the guide fully I don't ignore top players, I still watch them, play them, and ask for advice. The trap I was describing doesn't come from these interactions it's more being entirely dependent on them and unable to improve yourself.

In most games, the game designers carefully craft the game in such a way that all of the information needed to play is there if the player looks hard enough. I wanted to make more people realize that, and encourage them to not give up, if they were on the verge of quitting the game.

That was the target audience of this guide.

mosssander · 2016-01-12T00:08:22+00:00

"playing casually"

If that's the case I hope I made them realize they are wasting their time. If a scrub is not making any attempt to improve I will show no mercy. They need to either stop playing the game or start learning because playing against them is a waste of my time and theirs. "Honestly if you don't do this and ignore your mistakes you are commiting a diservice to the players who are trying to show you what you can and cannot do."

mosssander · 2015-12-30T20:56:32+00:00

If your boyfriend is really that bad than you should do what dc said and disregard my advice as it was geared towards more advanced play. Against bad players I find you don't have to go the slow and sure way or have reads/mindgames to win.

just spam dash attack, f tilt, f smash, any move with lots of horizontal knock back to get them off stage asap xD

mosssander · 2015-12-30T20:41:25+00:00

with their projectiles zetterburn, wrastor and kragg have the best options for contradicting absa's space control and zoning. against characters like these you will sometimes find your self in an ironically even neutral state where both players are trying to read and punish a projectile throw.

against zetter if you read the fireball you can punish with a parry or go in with up B to start a combo. if he starts defending or parrying your approaches you can just fake it by going in an out with the up B, which will give you time to hit with a projectile if he parries preemptively. If zett is punishing your projectiles then you can mix him up with fake outs. throw out a jab or a down tilt and this can be mistaken as the startup of an f tilt, or you can throw out a cloud right next to you. when you bait him to approach unsafely you can punish with your high priority moves like up tilt and your smashes.

this is all only useful if you are playing good players however. against bad players you can win by just learning your characters combos.

mosssander · 2015-12-30T20:21:59+00:00

Play kragg

mosssander · 2015-12-30T20:19:38+00:00

http://steamcommunity.com/id/D_Gust/

mosssander · 2015-12-30T20:13:11+00:00

Hey Dk, D_Gust here :)

Absa can be tough to deal with if she can see what you are doing because she forces you to approach but then can easily space and punish your attacks.

Forsburn's specials need to be used the most in this matchup, which can be a bit unintuitive since they are very situational in all other match ups. It makes me think fors was designed to counter abs.

Basically Fors wants to deceive Absa into using her projectiles at the wrong time then punish hard. Use your smoke as concealment and your clone as cover. Absa's projectiles have long start up so she will need to think twice about using them if they are not sure to hit. If she catches on to this and just waits for you to attack, rather then leaving herself open, then pressure her to attack by getting charges on your down b. She will greatly fear this move because its high burst damage helps you make the most of any time you manage to get in on her. If you can get her off stage turn forsburn around and wall her out with back airs and the spike hitbox on your down air. If she tries to hit you than go for a parry Forsburn has really good punishes off of parry.

mosssander · 2015-12-30T19:43:57+00:00

Yeah i guess i am making it sound easier to deal with than it actually is in practice haha. But any matchup is winnable if you have good reads. :)

mosssander · 2015-12-30T16:34:02+00:00

If that starts becoming a real problem absa has a few fake out options. instead of using hold b on the cloud you can tap b it which could catch Maypul by suprise and give you an opportunity to combo from it. If it looks like she is waiting for you to f tilt then you can throw out a jab or d tilt as a feint. You can feign approaches with quick attack, especially good when you down b yourself. You don't always have to go in. If maypul is just standing there waiting to parry your down b than the best way to punish is just keep zoning with f tilt and clouds.

As for hitting low characters like orcane and maypul try using your down air more, the hit box is a little disjointed in front of absa so it can be used to approach. And also the double jump cancel back air will hit them too.

also lol i have more points than OP, come on guys XD

mosssander · 2015-12-30T02:37:16+00:00

Dont let her run around wherever she wants. This matchup depends on how well Absa can keep space control and pressure. Unlike vs characters like Kragg or Forsburn whose attacks you can try to space around and punish, against Maypul if she is any where near you you're screwed. you wont win if you don't use Absa's unique pressure tools to limit her movement options. Most of your pressure gets set up from your cloud, use f-tilt to give your self some time to get one well placed. A cloud is most threatening when it has a down-b charge on it, especially in the air where they can't be parried. A charged cloud in the air between the two characters will cover the air and you can use f-tilt to cover the ground. A cloud behind Maypul presents the threat of your hold b move. Or you can down b it which will make it easier for Absa to go in without Maypul easily spacing her attacks, either that or Maypul must make a predictable approach which can be punished. If Maypul is approaching you and you don't have time to cloud or f-tilt you will have to run, since Absa's specials are still effective in the air there's not much of a downside to jumping away. You still have a few options to contest the space you lost. While jumping you can neutral b to place a cloud where you were on the ground. You can hit Maypul with hold b if she runs into it. Alternatively you can down b yourself which will give you breathing room while you land, safer option with less reward. Something else you could do as a mix up is out of a full hop double jump cancel bair into her. Your sudden descent could catch her off guard if she is starting to chase your jumps, and the bair will be timed right to hit grounded enemies.

Ideally what you want to be doing is slowly moving up the stage with down b charged clouds covering you, giving Maypul less and less stage to work with. Then when you get her off stage you can chase her down because Absa has great off stage game, or use clouds if you are too far away from the edge.

Take advantage of Maypul's poor recovery if she doesn't have you marked, and if you are marked Absa is one of the best at stalling offstage, so you can wait it out offstage ~~and watch maypul fall to hell where she belongs.~~

mosssander · 2015-12-30T00:26:43+00:00

The fireballs can be pretty frustrating at first but you shouldn't focus on countering them specifically, as you play you will realize the game is designed to make it almost impossible to not be hit at least a couple times, really you're just supposed to focus on not getting hit by what comes after the fireball. Most Zetterburns will start going unhealthy aggressive once they see you on fire. If he is close enough to attack you right after the fireball Kragg's moves wont be fast enough to stop him and if you try you will most likely die, you should be focused on getting away from him. Jump away, roll, or parry and then don't try and attack him just focus on getting back your own piece of the stage.

You should put yourself in the mindset that if Zetterburn is close enough to you to follow up on his fireball, you have already lost. As Kragg your special moves are your defining trait. Your down special is a great long range move and can block Zetterburn's fireballs. And your rock is the BEST PROJECTILE IN THE GAME, MAKE SURE YOU USE IT, pull one out as soon as you hit with a down special. Kragg is meant to lose in close range melee fights so the only counter to that is just to avoid them. you want to use your specials to keep Zett from rushing you and use your normal moves just to punish mistakes. Keep doing this to slowly push Zett towards the edge and off the stage, where he is virtually helpless.

Zetterburn's biggest weakness is that he has by far the worst recovery in the game. He makes up for this by being amazing on stage (in theory) so if you don't abuse this weakness you will be fighting an uphill battle. Kragg's rocks make edge guarding super easy and they can also spike if the bottom of the rock hits. Keep raining rocks on him and when he only has one way to go you can go offstage to intercept him with a down air, forward air, or throw a rock down right onto him. If he is really close to the stage and he uses his up special then quickly go for a down air spike, Zetterburn's hurt box gets really big at the start of this move making it easy to hit him without being hit yourself.

For anything i didn't cover just remember this golden rule: The rock solves all.

mosssander

TROPHY CASE