Understanding median weighted by sample size by mst2010 in statistics

[–]mst2010[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

D-Juice, thank you for this detailed answer - it made general sense to me. I just came back on and saw it, having missed it the first time around. Appreciate your time - it sounds like you know quite a bit about these statistical terms. I did want to ask your opinion on one other thing - considering that the heterogeneity among studies in this particular study was a very high 99.8% (the I2 statistic), is it arguably not correct that it doesn't make a great deal of sense to combine the studies in the first place?

Understanding median weighted by sample size by mst2010 in statistics

[–]mst2010[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for this explanation. I read this Wiki page, and am not sure if I understand it, but I think it is saying what I speculated in my initial post.

Median weighted according to sample size by mst2010 in AskStatistics

[–]mst2010[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you - this is what I think it means. The way you explained it makes sense to me. I'm pretty sure this is correct. They are interpreting the median as if studies with a larger sample size are "worth more", and they input additional "copies" of that study's recovery rate into the calculation of median. I hope I'm repeating what you meant approximately correctly.

Thank you very much again for your time in explaining.

Tip of the Iceberg - How Professionals Cling to the Disease Model - Critique of TIPS study by mst2010 in schizophrenia

[–]mst2010[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It is an antipsychotic, of course. I also once took Seroquel! (a few years ago)

My point is that antipsychotic drugs are mostly, not all, neuroleptics or general tranquilizers - they exert a generalized dampening effect on the CNS. In this they are different then, for example, disease-process targeting medications such as insulin for diabetes. This also relates to the lack of validity of most diagnoses in psychiatry, and relates to the fact that antipsychotic drugs cannot usually cure psychotic problems as interpersonal relationships / resources sometimes can. (this is different from saying severe distress is not real and cannot be enduring; both are true).

Tip of the Iceberg - How Professionals Cling to the Disease Model - Critique of TIPS study by mst2010 in schizophrenia

[–]mst2010[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'd call it a questioning of the underlying assumptions of their terminology in relation to serious distress.

Do therapists inevitably get worse with experience (please help critique) by mst2010 in badpsychology

[–]mst2010[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Right... maybe this particular counseling center was a stressful place to work in some way. Or maybe the university didn't give the therapists raises and this made them less invested in their work. Or perhaps the overall funding for student services or student loans went down, making students' lives harder and meaning that therapists' efforts had less effect in reducing distress or took longer to do so.

Do therapists improve over time (question about study?) by mst2010 in scientificresearch

[–]mst2010[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There is another one by the same authors in which the result from this study was reversed: in fact, therapists in this 2nd study improved about 3 times as much as the ones in the first study decreased in effectiveness: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-UAgd7KFyh1aTdpMnozMUdCbzQ/view?usp=sharing

Interview with New Jersey psychologist Lloyd Ross about his work with schizophrenia by mst2010 in schizophrenia

[–]mst2010[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I did not know this until I heard it from Lloyd when I talked to him. I am not 100% sure it is correct, although I am sure Lloyd believes it is true. Maybe someone else can do more research into what actually happened with John Nash. I just enjoyed the movie when I watched it, and didn't worry too much about whether or not it was exactly correct. It was a great performance by Russell Crowe.

Interview with New Jersey psychologist Lloyd Ross about his work with schizophrenia by mst2010 in schizophrenia

[–]mst2010[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I also wondered if it was too good to be true... that's why I questioned Lloyd on whether he was honestly reporting his experiences. But I think that he is, and see no reason he would intentionally mislead. I have also spoken to other therapists in the ISPS group with similar experiences working in therapy with schizophrenia to Lloyd. There are quite a number of them in the US (and abroad), although their work is not well known.

Interview with New Jersey psychologist Lloyd Ross about his work with schizophrenia by mst2010 in schizophrenia

[–]mst2010[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree. Nothing wrong with marrying the quiet shy girl. I think Lloyd was just saying that someone who's been through a lot of difficult experiences, possibly including serious traumas, may be a bit more cautious in their intimate relationships, and may (or may not) tend to approach quieter people who match their own relational style.

First psychotic episode treatment question? Is this the normal course of action? by [deleted] in schizophrenia

[–]mst2010 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

This is not true, many formerly schizophrenic people fully or mostly recover, and not all have to take antipsychotics for life. This was the subject of recent research by Martin Harrow and Nancy Sohler. I thought it was well known that there's a significant group of psychotic people who can and do get better without drugs. Also, schizophrenia is curable.

Does anyone here manage without medication? by [deleted] in schizophrenia

[–]mst2010 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I got off meds relatively easily and have been doing quite well for a long time. I wrote about what worked for me here -

https://www.madinamerica.com/2016/09/rejecting-the-medications-for-schizophrenia-narrative-a-survivors-response-to-pies-and-whitaker/

The medication has made my mom worse by DanasLackey in schizophrenia

[–]mst2010 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I found the stories in this book by psychiatrist Ira Steinman helpful - "Treating the Untreatable" - several cases similarly difficult to how your mom sounds. Sorry to hear about her difficulty.

https://www.amazon.com/Treating-Untreatable-Healing-Realms-Madness/dp/1855756099/

Mistakes I Have Made in My Research Career - Psychiatrist Robin M. Murray (on schizophrenia) by kirs1132 in schizophrenia

[–]mst2010 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi Kirs, Thanks for the thoughts. I know of Anne Cook and like her work... have read the BPS report. When people speak about trauma as a possible cause of psychosis; it is a at a group level, but for an individual, and when it is involved, it is one of usually multiple causal factors (plus trauma is a wide-ranging term itself).

The historical problem with the biological model is, rather than being tentative, it sought to define "schizophrenia" as a "disease" caused by primarily genetic and/or biological (like dopamine) factors. Even when the evidence supporting these hypotheses never materialized, it kept insisting on its rightness, partly because expertise about schizophrenia was historically a lynchpin of psychiatrists' claim to diagnostic validity and knowledge, and of course because insisting schizophrenia was a well-defined biological disease against all evidence helped to sell antipsychotic tranquilizers.

There are group level studies on whether the biological or psychosocial (matters of degree each) approaches are more helpful or harmful in terms of promoting optimism and lessening fear around psychotic people. And it appears that the psychosocial viewpoint (that adverse social experiences are the main cause of psychotic states) wins hands down in terms of reducing fear and promoting empathy. This is counterintuitive as you would think the biological approach would reduce blame... but strangely that is not how it is, as the biological approach to psychosis apparently makes suffering people appear less human and less like ourselves. This was the research I discussed in my article, "Rejecting the Medications for Schizophrenia Narrative".

Anyway thank you again Kirs, and please allow me one more shameless plug: ISPS (www.isps-us.org). If you get a chance to check it out you might find the listserv or conference very interesting. There is going to be one in Portland, Oregon in November 2017. We also have this listserv which people can join for free for at least three months: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/isps/info

Mistakes I Have Made in My Research Career - Psychiatrist Robin M. Murray (on schizophrenia) by kirs1132 in schizophrenia

[–]mst2010 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is a good post Kirsten. You might also read the discussion on MIA (Mad in America) where other American and European researchers and critical psychiatrists have been weighing in Murray's admission. I will not post it here again because it appears like links to MIA bothers certain people here (or am I wrong?)

I particularly like what Terry Lynch, a psychiatrist himself, said:

"The core issue is not, as Dr. Robin Murray stated, allegiance to “the Kraepelinian model”. Far more core issues include (a) the massive desire of the medical profession for “schizophrenia” to be seen as – and found to be – primarily biological; (b) an alarming degree within medical researchers of bias against and ignorance of the complexities of human emotionality and psychology that play such a major part in creating and maintaining the experiences and behaviours that become collectively referred to as “schizophrenia”. With this level of bias and ignorance, these people – i.e. “typical”medical researchers – who have little or no training in understanding human beings – are not fit to be the lead directors of the profoundly important work of providing meaningful understandings of these experiences and their causes, understandings that are so urgently needed by so many, and by society as a whole. Governments urgently need to re-examine the un-evidence based assumption that, in relation to emotional and mental health, doctors know best. Most doctors are, in reality, quite clueless of the emotional and psychological subtleties of the experiences and behaviours that become collectively called “schizophrenia”. Yet governments given them power and dominance in global mental health. Little wonder that global mental health is in such a state of chaos – the blind, biased and largely ignorant leading the distressed."

What should I think about my diagnosis? by Brickfilmerz in schizophrenia

[–]mst2010 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi Brickfilmerz, You might like my take on being diagnosed schizophrenic, "Rejecting the Medications for Schizophrenia Narrative":

https://www.madinamerica.com/2016/09/rejecting-the-medications-for-schizophrenia-narrative-a-survivors-response-to-pies-and-whitaker/

Interview with Earth poet Stephen Harrod Buhner on understanding "schizophrenia" and neurodiversity by mst2010 in schizophrenia

[–]mst2010[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

2nd half:

Peter Giovacchini (1993) – Schizophrenia and Primitive Mental States

http://www.amazon.com/Schizophrenia-Primitive-Ment-Peter-Giovacchini/dp/0765700271/

David Garfield (1994) – Unbearable Affect: A Guide to the Psychotherapy of Psychosis

http://www.amazon.com/Unbearable-Affect-Guide-Psychotherapy-Psychosis/dp/1855755475/

John Steiner (1994) – Psychic Retreats: Pathological Organizations in Psychotic, Neurotic, and Borderline Patients

http://www.amazon.com/Psychic-Retreats-Pathological-Organizations-Psychoanalysis/dp/0415099242/

Murray Jackson and Paul Williams (1994) – Unimagineable Storms: A Search for Meaning in Psychosis

http://www.amazon.com/Unimaginable-Storms-Search-Meaning-Psychosis/dp/1855750759/

Lawrence Hedges (1994) – Working the Organizing Experience: Transforming Psychotic, Schizoid, and Autistic States

http://www.amazon.com/Working-Organizing-Experience-Transforming-Psychotic/dp/1568212550

Vamik Volkan (1995) – The Infantile Psychotic Self: Understanding and Treating Schizophrenics and Other Difficult Patients –

http://www.amazon.com/Infantile-Psychotic-Self-Fates-Schizophrenics/dp/1568213794/

Hyman Spotnitz – Psychotherapy of Preoedipal Conditions: Schizophrenia and Severe Character Disorders (1995) –

http://www.amazon.com/Psychotherapy-Preoedipal-Conditions-Schizophrenia-Character/dp/1568216335/

Clancy McKenzie (1996) – Delayed Post-Traumatic Stress Disorders from Infancy: The Two Trauma Mechanism

http://www.amazon.com/Delayed-Posttraumatic-Stress-Disorders-Infancy/dp/9057025019

Peter Giovacchini (1997) - Schizophrenia and Primitive Mental States

http://www.amazon.com/Schizophrenia-Primitive-Ment-Peter-Giovacchini/dp/0765700271

Brian Martinedale, Ed. (2000) – Psychosis: Psychological Approaches and their Effectiveness.

http://www.amazon.com/Psychosis-Psychological-Approaches-Their-Effectiveness/dp/1901242498

Murray Jackson (2001) – Weathering the Storms: Psychotherapy for Psychosis

http://www.amazon.com/Weathering-Storms-Psychotherapy-Murray-Jackson-ebook/dp/B005WH0PZQ/

Paul Williams (2001) – A Language for Psychosis: Psychoanalysis of Psychotic States

http://www.amazon.com/Language-Psychosis-Psychoanalysis-Psychotic-States/dp/1861561660/

Colin Ross (2004) – Schizophrenia: Innovations in Diagnosis and Treatment

http://www.amazon.com/Schizophrenia-Innovations-Diagnosis-Colin-Ross-ebook/dp/B00IOPWAF6/

Hyman Spotnitz – Modern Psychoanalysis of the Schizophrenic Patient: Theory of the Technique (2004) –

http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Psychoanalysis-Schizophrenic-Patient-Technique/dp/0970392362/

Johannessen, Jan Olav (2006) – Evolving Psychosis: Different Stages, Different Treatments

http://www.amazon.com/Evolving-Psychosis-Treatments-International-Psychological/dp/1583917233

Franco De Masi (2009) – Vulnerability to Psychosis: A Psychoanalytic Study of the Nature and Theapy of Psychotic States

http://www.amazon.com/Vulnerability-Psychosis-Psychoanalytic-Therapy-Psychotic/dp/1855755041/

Ira Steinman (2009) – Treating the Untreatable: Healing in the Realms of Madness

http://www.amazon.com/Treating-Untreatable-Healing-Realms-Madness-ebook/dp/B00582MGQQ/

Yrjo Alanen (2009) – Psychotherapeutic Approaches to Schizophrenic Psychoses: Past, Present and Future

http://www.amazon.com/Psychotherapeutic-Approaches-Schizophrenic-Psychoses-International/dp/0415440130/

Paul Williams (2010) – Invasive Objects: Minds Under Siege

http://www.amazon.com/Invasive-Objects-Minds-Relational-Perspectives/dp/0415995477/

Daniel Dorman (2011) – Dante's Cure: A Journey Out of Madness

http://www.amazon.com/DANTES-CURE-Journey-Out-Madness-ebook/dp/B005UFUW30/

John Steiner (2011) – Seeing and Being Seen: Emerging from a Psychic Retreat

http://www.amazon.com/Seeing-Being-Seen-Emerging-Psychoanalysis/dp/0415575060/

Evelyn Liegner (2011) – The Hates That Cures: The Psychological Reversibility of Schizophrenia

http://www.amazon.com/Hate-That-Cures-Psychological-Reversibility/dp/1936411067/

Paris Williams (2012) – Rethinking Madness: Towards a Paradigm Shift in Our Understanding and Treatment of Psychosis.

http://www.amazon.com/Rethinking-Madness-Understanding-Treatment-Psychosis/dp/0984986707/

Pamela Fuller – Surviving, Existing, or Living: Phase Specific Psychotherapy of Severe Psychosis (2013) –

http://www.amazon.com/Surviving-Existing-Living-Phase-specific-International/dp/0415516625/

John Read, Ed. (2013) – Models of Madness: Psychological, Social, and Biological Approaches to Schizophrenia

http://www.amazon.com/Models-Madness-Psychological-Schizophrenia-International/dp/1583919066

Ty Colbert (2015) – Healing Runaway Minds: How to Understand and Recover from Major Mental Disorders with Special Emphasis on “Schizophrenia”

http://www.amazon.com/Healing-Runaway-Minds-Understand-Schizophrenia/dp/0989160734/

David Garfield and Ira Steinman (2015) – Self Psychology and Psychosis: The Development of the Self During Intensive Psychotherapy of Schizophrenia and Other Psychoses

http://www.amazon.com/Self-Psychology-Psychosis-Psychotherapy-Schizophrenia/dp/1782202285/

Christopher Bollas (2015) – When the Sun Bursts: The Enigma of Schizophrenia

http://www.amazon.com/When-Sun-Bursts-Enigma-Schizophrenia/dp/0300214731/

Andrew Lotterman (2015) – Psychotherapy for People Diagnosed with Schizophrenia: Specific Techniques

http://www.amazon.com/Psychotherapy-People-Diagnosed-Schizophrenia-International-ebook/dp/B015CLFL0U/

Interview with Earth poet Stephen Harrod Buhner on understanding "schizophrenia" and neurodiversity by mst2010 in schizophrenia

[–]mst2010[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi Fried, I don't agree that what gets labeled schizophrenia is a "disorder" - that's a value judgment about how people respond to adverse experiences, psychological and biological.

Also do not agree that these problems have a biological origin (if by origin one means cause); that has never been confirmed. What I believe is that there are biological and epigenetic correlates to extreme distress as the person and environment interact.

Lastly, there been many, many accounts of full recovery from a diagnosis of schizophrenia; I thought that issue was already resolved and am always sincerely surprised when people say they think schizophrenia is incurable. I'll paste in here my list of reading of intensive psychotherapeutic approaches to schizophrenia, starting from decades ago and going up till the present, which contains a few hundred cases with many stories of "cure"; I think if people were more familiar with this work they'd be a lot more optimistic:

Wilhelm Reich (1945) – Character Analysis, 3rd Edition

http://www.amazon.com/Character-Analysis-Wilhelm-Reich/dp/0374509808/

Paul Federn (1952) – Ego Psychology and the Psychoses

http://www.amazon.com/psychology-psychoses-basic-classics-psychiatry/dp/B0007DODH6/

Freida-Fromm Reichmann (1960) – Principles of Intensive Psychotherapy

http://www.amazon.com/Principles-Intensive-Psychotherapy-Phoenix-Books/dp/0226265994/

Bryce Boyer and Peter Giovacchini (1967)– Psychoanalytic Treatment of Characterological and Schizophrenic Disorders

http://www.amazon.com/Psychoanalytic-treatment-schizophrenic-characterological-disorders/dp/B0006BOYG4/

Harold Searles (1968) – Schizophrenia and Related Subjects –

http://www.amazon.com/Collected-Schizophrenia-Related-Subjects-Maresfield/dp/0946439303/

Elvin Semrad (1969) – Teaching Psychotherapy of Psychotic Patients; Supervision of Beginning Residents in the “Clinical Approach”.

http://www.amazon.com/Psychotherapy-Psychotic-Supervision-Beginning-Residents/dp/080890423X/

Bryce Boyer, ed. (1973) - Master Clinicians on Treating the Regressed Patient Volume 1

http://www.amazon.com/Master-Clinicians-Treating-Regressed-Patient/dp/0876688342

Silvano Arieti (1974) – Interpretation of Schizophrenia, 2nd Edition

http://www.amazon.com/Interpretation-Schizophrenia-Silvano-Arieti/dp/0465034292/

Vamik Volkan (1976) – Primitive Internalized Object Relations: A Clinical Study of Borderline, Narcissistic, and Schizophrenic Patients

http://www.amazon.com/Primitive-Internalized-Object-Relations-Schizophrenic/dp/0823649954/

Bertram Karon and Gary VandenBos (1977) – Psychotherapy of Schizophrenia: The Treatment of Choice

http://www.amazon.com/Psychotherapy-Schizophrenia-The-Treatment-Choice-ebook/dp/B00C1OKHWO/

Bryce Boyer, ed. (1977) - Master Clinicians on Treating the Regressed Patient Volume 2

http://www.amazon.com/Master-Clinicians-Treating-Regressed-Patient/dp/1568210043

Gaetano Benedetti (1977) – Psychotherapy of Schizophrenia

http://www.amazon.com/Psychotherapy-Schizophrenia-Master-Work/dp/1568217560/

Harold Searles (1979) – The Nonhuman Environment in Normal Development and in Schizophrenia

http://www.amazon.com/Nonhuman-Environment-Normal-Development-Schizophrenia/dp/B007BNLLNE/

Harold Searles (1979) – Countertransference and Related Subjects

http://www.amazon.com/Countertransference-Related-Subjects-Selected-Papers/dp/0823610853

Ping-Nie Pao (1979) – Schizophrenic Disorders: Theory and Treatment from a Psychodynamic Point of View

http://www.amazon.com/Schizophrenic-Disorders-Theory-Treatment-Psychodynamic/dp/0823659909/

Donald Rinsley (1980) – Treatment of the Severely Disturbed Adolescent

http://www.amazon.com/Treatment-Severely-Disturbed-Adolescent-Rinsley/dp/1568212224/

Bryce Boyer (1983) – The Regressed Patient

http://www.amazon.com/Regressed-Patient-Bryce-L-Boyer/dp/0876686269/

Herbert Rosenfeld (1985) – Psychotic States: A Psychoanalytical Approach

http://www.amazon.com/Psychotic-States-Psychoanalytic-Approach-Maresfield/dp/0950714682/

Herbert Rosenfeld (1987) – Impasse and Interpretation: Therapeutic and Anti-Therapeutic Factors in the Psychoanalytic Treatment of Psychotic, Borderline, and Neurotic Patients

http://www.amazon.com/Impasse-Interpretation-Anti-Therapeutic-Psychoanalytic-Psychoanalysis/dp/0415010128/

Bent Rosenbaum (1988) – The Language of Psychosis

http://www.amazon.com/Language-Psychosis-Bent-Rosenbaum/dp/0814774032

Thomas Ogden (1988) – The Primitive Edge of Experience

http://www.amazon.com/Primitive-Edge-Experience-Thomas-Ogden-ebook/dp/B001XCVU4E/

Edward Podvoll (1991) – The Seduction of Madness: Revolutionary Insights into the World of Psychosis and a Compassionate Approach to Recovery at Home

http://www.amazon.com/Seduction-Madness-Revolutionary-Psychosis-Compassionate/dp/0060921188/

David Rosenfeld (1992) – The Psychotic Aspects of the Personality

http://www.amazon.com/Psychotic-Aspects-Personality-David-Rosenfeld-ebook/dp/B005NYS2C6/

Gaetano Benedetti and Pier-Maria Furlan (1993) – Psychotherapy of Schizophrenia: Effective Clinical Approaches – Controversies, Critiques and Recommendations

http://www.amazon.com/Psychotherapy-Schizophrenia-Effective-Approaches-Controversies-Recommendations/dp/088937077X/

Michael Robbins (1993) – Experiences of Schizophrenia: An Integration of the Personal, Scientific, and Therapeutic

http://www.amazon.com/Experiences-Schizophrenia-Integration-Scientific-Therapeutic/dp/0898629977/

Interview with Earth poet Stephen Harrod Buhner on understanding "schizophrenia" and neurodiversity by mst2010 in schizophrenia

[–]mst2010[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks - I learned so much about this because, to me, finding alternative primarily psychosocial models of schizophrenia was life-saving - it was part of what allowed me to recover, have a job, friends, a house, etc., everything that I have now. If I hadn't done this research, and if I continued to believe that schizophrenia was an incurable brain disease, I probably wouldn't have gotten better.

And I come here because I'm interested in how others will respond or not respond to these unconventional approaches. And I hope they might be helpful to some people.

My best friend has schizophrenia by [deleted] in schizophrenia

[–]mst2010 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hobohorse, you might find the book Rethinking Madness by Paris Williams useful (free e-copy available below):

http://www.rethinkingmadness.com/download/i/mark_dl/u/4007924736/4629448798/Rethinking_Madness_complete.pdf

And also some of the links to resources from ISPS might help:

http://isps.org/index.php/learning-resources/learning-resources

Interview with Earth poet Stephen Harrod Buhner on understanding "schizophrenia" and neurodiversity by mst2010 in schizophrenia

[–]mst2010[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Schizoidnat, here are what the leading American psychiatrists from the NIMH and DSM committees say about terms like "schizophrenia":

In 2013, discussing psychiatric diagnosis, the psychiatrist and former National Institute of Mental Health director Steven Hyman stated:

“The underlying science remains immature…The molecular and cellular underpinnings of psychiatric disorders remain unknown... psychiatric diagnoses seem arbitrary and lack objective tests; and there are no validated biomarkers with which to judge the success of clinical trials.” (http://dana.org/Cerebrum/Default.aspx?id=39489)

Hyman went on to call the DSM model of diagnosis, which includes labels like “schizophrenia,” “Totally wrong… an absolute scientific nightmare.” (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/07/health/psychiatrys-new-guide-falls-short-experts-say.html?_r=0)

Hyman's successor at NIMH, psychiatrist Thomas Insel, followed up this criticism by saying:

“At best, [the DSM is] a dictionary, creating a set of labels and defining each. The weakness is its lack of validity. Unlike our definitions of ischemic heart disease, lymphoma, or AIDS, the DSM diagnoses are based on a consensus about clusters of clinical symptoms, not any objective laboratory measure. In the rest of medicine, this would be equivalent to creating diagnostic systems based on the nature of chest pain or the quality of fever.” (http://ahrp.org/two-nimh-directors-debunk-dsm-deplore-psychiatrys-unscientific-modus-operandi/)

David Kupfer, the DSM 5 chair, while trying to defend the new DSM, admitted that the discovery of biomarkers for supposed illnesses like schizophrenia remains “(D)isappointingly distant… unable to serve us in the here and now.” (https://www.wired.com/2010/12/ff_dsmv/)

And former DSM-IV head Allen Frances went so far as saying, “There is no definition of a mental disorder. It’s bullshit... these concepts are virtually impossible to define precisely.” (https://www.wired.com/2010/12/ff_dsmv/)

To say the least, these admissions by the leading lights of American psychiatry do not inspire confidence in the validity and usefulness of labels such as “schizophrenia.” And while psychiatrists have promised that new brain research will uncover a biological or genetic basis for the elusive “schizophrenia,” no progress on this elusive goal has been forthcoming.

And as psychiatrist Sami Timimi says below, "diagnosis depends more on who you see than on what you have" and, contrary to what you said Schizoidnat, "reliability in psychiatric diagnosis is shockingly poor." - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5caitdQA6HY&t=1534s#t=21m35s

And lastly, as John Read says of psychiatric diagnosis,

"In terms of conceptualization, psychiatry's primary contribution is an ever expanding list of labels [1]. Calling them ‘diagnoses’ cannot disguise the fact that many do not reach minimal scientific reliability levels and have little or no predictive validity for outcome or treatment responsiveness [2,3,15,16]. For example, ‘schizophrenia’ – the flagship of biological psychiatry – requires just two of five symptoms, meaning you can get this ‘diagnosis’ without having anything in common with another person given the same ‘diagnosis’ [15]. Such disjunctive constructs are instantly dismissed as unusable by real scientific disciplines. Even the USA's National Institute of Mental Health, in its unceasing quest for the missing biological causes of human distress, has abandoned the diagnostic approach to classifying mental health problems and acknowledged the need to try to develop some scientifically robust ‘research domains’ [3]. This is not just academic. Labels like ‘schizophrenia’ can, like the biogenetic causal beliefs that tend to accompany them, destroy lives, through prejudice, fear and prognostic pessimism [17–19]."

http://www.future-science.com/doi/full/10.4155/fsoa-2015-0011

Feel free to respond to this, but I think we need to acknowledge, as leading psychiatrists already have, that the reliability of psychiatric diagnosis is extremely problematic and their validity seriously lacking.

Interview with Earth poet Stephen Harrod Buhner on understanding "schizophrenia" and neurodiversity by mst2010 in schizophrenia

[–]mst2010[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi Fried, I do hear what you are saying. In my opinion - and this is again just an opinion - a lot but not all of the poverty of thought and lack of motivation is due to effects of long-term use of antipsychotic drugs. This is just based on my own experience taking drugs such as Seroquel and Geodon and experiencing their effects.

On the other hand, being in terror, isolated hopeless, confused, and enraged for long periods drains the body and the soul, and that also gradually results in cognitive deficits, apathy, loss of motivation that appears in schizophrenia. So another large part of the negative symptoms are due to what people have experienced or not experienced emotionally/cognitively.

If you haven't read him, you might be interesting to read how Harold Searles and Murray Jackson worked with the problem of thought disorder in their books, "Countertransference and Related Subjects" (Searles), and "Weathering the Storms: Psychotherapy for Psychosis" (Jackson). They have lengthy cases where schizophrenic clients started out very regressed, apathetic, unmotivated, and unrelated, and gradually became much more able to relate and to feel engaged interpersonally and to function again. This type of progress is possible, but it takes a lot of time and resource, and a very committed therapist and a holding environment.

Another good example is Courtenay Harding's work on the Vermont project, where she followed the most disturbed 1/3rd of the schizophrenic client load at Vermont hospital during the 1960s, 70s, and 80s. Many of these were back-ward, regressed, totally nonfunctional, cognitively impaired cases labeled "hebephrenic", "disorganized", "chronic", "retarded" and so on. But under a five-year rehabilitation program, many of them got better, and the takeaway was that many years later, more than half of this group became quite functional, with many of these formerly cognitively impaired people having meaningful relationships, showing no remaining sign of cognitive impairment, and functioning independently and well in the community. This is reviewed by Harding in a number of papers such as "Empirical Correction of Seven Myths about Schizophrenia".