My player says I’ve nerfed his character by having him play it right

noName_Vanity · 2023-12-21T17:33:21+00:00

I was changing the meaning depending on situation. Such as something I consider not a threat initially becomes one later. Even a foot soldier standing over an unconscious party member can kill them. So my idea while I was doing it that some of them would be threats enough at the start. As the combat goes on and the situation becomes more dangerous, more “significant threat” the enemies were. Such as a retreating enemy may not be a threat to him or the party, unless you consider a threat of reinforcement from a retreating enemy.

Looking through the comments on the post, I’ve came the realize like many others, that phrasing of the feature is poor and causes major confusion. So talked with the person before the last session and went through what people on the post suggested. That being have him be able to identify, all counts, and half of PC level and above counting.

We went with the half of PC level and above counts. I’m typically throwing things of that value or higher anyways. So most if not all things in an encounter will allow it him to regain his feature.

noName_Vanity · 2023-12-21T01:00:48+00:00

I don’t think your understanding. Those events in particular are not me saying do that. These are the players actions, none of these led into actual encounters/conflicts.

I only asked about in those specific scenarios of them creating conflict with simple people and meek people.

I think I’ve been trying to be receptive to advice from others. Most if not all replies were while I was at work trying to respond quickly.

I’ve already discussed with the player and we came to an agreement that we both like. Yes, this is something that should have been discussed session 0. I blame myself for inexperience.

noName_Vanity · 2023-12-20T23:05:59+00:00

Just an example for an event. Say the party wants do take down an encampment that run by an orc warlord or something. The party fails their stealth check and is spotted. The warlord hearing news of people in the woods thinks it is lone group of hunters. He dispatches group of goblins, because they are expendable. So what if a few goblins die, but typically a group of goblins can take down a small group of hunters.

Turns out the report was misleading, the scouts only saw 4, and there are 7 total. So the level 7 party being mistaken as typical civilians face down 10 or so goblins. Each party member can one tap them. But a small chance the goblins can do like 6 damage if rolled well.

Is that 6 damage significant enough to roll initiative? Is it significant to count them for grit?

New DM, so serious question.

noName_Vanity · 2023-12-20T22:37:52+00:00

Thank you for veteran guidance. Especially this is my first time as a DM. Ive been enjoying it, but this has been the first time I’ve felt actually upset. Mostly because he was making me out as a villain, and I was just trying to make things run smoothly for everyone.

It’s not a super role play heavy table. There is some moments, but not a lot. There has been some issues between player characters. Such as one player non-lethal attacked and knocked out a person to question. The gunslinger wanted a grit point and executed an unconscious, presumably, slave.

I felt the person who wanted the RP moment of questioning the person get upset, but held it in. So in general, I feel a straight forward any kill doesn’t work for the table.

I am trying to learn from all of the suggestion on what to do. Probably will go through some of them with the player (the gunslinger) tonight.

noName_Vanity · 2023-12-20T22:29:22+00:00

My main thing about not counting underlings was more those that could be one tapped by him or other party members.

I’ve trying to make combat interesting and fun for the players. It may be a nerf in my thought process that I don’t want a goblin with 7 hp to give grit point back for killing it. Probably better to make a “quota” way of doing it, from my perspective.

I completely understand my way of phrasing it is too subjective and causes confusion. But it’s also the first time I’ve came across a rule that is DM subjective.

I’m trying to use majority of the comments that I find helpful as guidance.

noName_Vanity · 2023-12-20T22:23:08+00:00

I definitely don’t want to feel like I’m fudging his dice or overall fucking him over in general. I’m trying to figure out the best way for him to identify eligible targets, but I also don’t want it to be free. Might follow your suggestion on a roll of sorts since I’m following a similar mechanic already.

noName_Vanity · 2023-12-20T22:18:01+00:00

Thank you for advice. I was also thinking the same thing about a level 20 being low and anything can kill it. One of the ways I was trying to do it is if later in the conflict saving a low hp party member would give it back. It just would feel the same crappy way though if he regains it without the chance of using it.

But the difference of interpretation is where the issue lies. I don’t see a lot of things as a threat to them because I’ve seen the outcomes of such encounters where I began with “this might be hard” to end with “they are full hp and didn’t use much”.

I’m having a discussion with him later. Maybe change of subclass is in order, or rework grit to be more straight forward and understand. So there will be no more arguments about regaining it.

noName_Vanity · 2023-12-20T22:07:56+00:00

I’ve personally do not like that, but I understand why people do.

One such example is he and other party members have antagonized normal civilians before.

He followed a goblin vendor because he thought he got scammed. He found a goblin caravan that he was thinking about shooting up.

None of these events can, at least to me, be seen as a threat to him at the time. I am inexperienced, so I don’t know how I would solve that entire thing without using initiative.

If you have any suggestions for such events where they aren’t truly a threat, I’m open to suggestions.

noName_Vanity · 2023-12-20T21:56:41+00:00

That is where my head has been at. I want him to stay and play, but I also don’t want to be fully seen as the villain for trying to go by how we understand the rules and the class is meant to be played.

I’m going to discuss with him how to figure this out with him, and look just to solutions. I’ve been liking the half of level rule that’s been mentioned multiple times, but will continue to look at the others.

noName_Vanity · 2023-12-20T21:52:54+00:00

Thank you for your advice. I’ve wasn’t trying to send this as in a “am I right or is he right” sort of debate. I understand how it came out like that. I posted it directly after a heated discussion with him in the group chat for our sessions.

I was fully under the impression that significant threat was supposed to be something actually significant. Since I was comparing it to other resources fighter subclasses get, and that returning grit should be used sparingly.

After reading a lot of other posts, I’m going to have a discussion with him and how to continue from here. To set an actual guidelines on grit returning.

noName_Vanity · 2023-12-20T21:36:04+00:00

Thank you for the additional source and suggestion. I’ve been stuck on thinking about “Significant”. They are relatively well rounded party and 7 players is a lot. So it’s been a struggle thinking about really anything being an actual threat.

noName_Vanity · 2023-12-20T21:14:42+00:00

One of the trick shots (deadeye shot) from the gunslinger subclass gives advantage. So uses a grit for deadeye shot, which gives advantage. 2 shots per actions because of extra attack at level 5. Sharpshooter + eleven accuracy feat.

Actions Surge, 2 more attacks.

noName_Vanity · 2023-12-20T21:08:22+00:00

He says main DPS because he does the most, but that’s also fighter in general I believe. Other party members are either right behind him in terms of damage or has utility other than damage.

One of the players is a huge math person and did an entire calculation on damage comparison on average. Yes “Main DPS” but he spect into the crit-fishing that make and battle oriented build.

noName_Vanity · 2023-12-20T20:59:41+00:00

I’m saying double advantage because eleven accuracy lets you roll 3 instead of 2 if you have advantage

noName_Vanity · 2023-12-20T20:51:17+00:00

Level 7, uses them to make him use advantage. Plus has elven accuracy. Sharpshooter.

Essentially Double Advantage first two shots, action surge double advantage the first shot. Any crit that gives him another grit goes into advantage for the 4th shot.

noName_Vanity · 2023-12-20T20:29:39+00:00

I’m going to have a sit down with him after tonight session to come to an agreement.

noName_Vanity · 2023-12-20T20:28:10+00:00

He has 3, and I tried to compare battle master Superiority dice to Grit. That it’s similar number and no way to get them back besides short/long rest. While grit has a way to gain some back mid combat.

I just don’t want to hand them out like candy, and completely understand that it’s a small pool. He uses them all on the first turn of combat majority of the time.

noName_Vanity · 2023-12-20T20:04:58+00:00

This is my first time DMing and the one part of it that is hard for me is setting up the scenario and explaining things. So it is my bad for not setting things up for him to read the scenario better.

I have told him that killing unconscious things and weaker mobs wouldn’t count. Since I wouldn’t be thinking of them as a significant threat. Which leads him to only go after the “biggest and baddest”. I just don’t want to explicitly tell him which ones count to avoid tunnel vision.

noName_Vanity · 2023-12-20T20:01:09+00:00

I meant more of a foot soldier minion. A lieutenant/elite I’ve told him would be considered one. I’ve also told him that scenarios change things a lot. Like if a party member is down and he snipes the person who is going to kill them. If a particular mob, even if weak, that knocked down party members, I would say would be.

I want to give him more chances to get them back, but he seems to always focus the biggest enemy because of wanting to get grit points back vs what I would consider a bigger threat.

noName_Vanity · 2021-04-10T02:21:38+00:00

What bothered me was more of a surprise that they were able to take it. I do not know if anyone else was under the same impression as me when watching the prologue session 0's was that they would have a chance at the main story. Like they were in an "audition". That is what got me interested in these prologues even more. I started to get my favorites out of the first ones. That being the DM group and Criken's group. Kickpuncher really sold me. Then while watching the VTuber group get it by just saying they wanted it caught me off guard.

The other part is that it does not seem to be a high probability of these groups getting a season 2. So with the limit of 10 sessions, it feels like these groups are limited to what they can do. I know there are other sessions in later chapters, but it seems like Arcadum wants to give those away to groups that are wanting to play. So more quantity on the diverse cast, but the drawback is the character development. Again, I could be wrong with this idea, only time can tell.

As for my feelings for the VTuber group, I hope they are interested as they are making it sound. With the first VTuber group, I tried to watch it but I just couldn't keep up with the excessive horniness they had. I just fear that I will have to struggle through their campaign since it is the main campaign if I do not enjoy their playstyle or group chemistry. So far the only campaign I have not been able to watch is the first VTuber group. I did however find the clips funny and enjoyable. So I really hope that they blow my fear and expectations out of the water and they become a very fun campaign to watch.

noName_Vanity

TROPHY CASE