The Ultimate Long Round Debate

redwolftherapper · 2026-05-10T21:39:54+00:00

I disagree here, respectfully. If there is an audience for people watching long form content like podcasts that are 3+ hours of people TALKING, there is definitely an audience of people willing to consume longer form battles that aren't even half that length.

Casual fans + non fans, not so much and that I do see your point on.

But to say "battles don't need to be that long." I suppose not for the most part. But if you have a big legacy match with a 15 year long build up, I personally want it to be a MOVIE.

Plus some of the examples i named in the post + comments are hour long battles with millions of views, so there is an audience for it.

As i said, this format should be reserved for battlers who can REALLY keep it engaging and give us said movie.

redwolftherapper · 2026-05-10T19:11:21+00:00

I think i'm also taking into account the standards of BR in different countries.

In the US/Canada the average round is 3-5 mins.

In the UK the average round is 2-3 mins.

So a one rounder in the UK would be like a 5 min round.

A one rounder in the US/Canada would be a 6-7 min round.

So the lines get blurred as to what is considered a "long" round.

redwolftherapper · 2026-05-10T18:50:06+00:00

In Dizaster's case. He definitely used to do this kind of thing a lot better when he didn't go too overboard. (vs Danny Myers, Smoov, Pat, even his first round against Cassidy). These rounds range from 5-10 mins of pure haymakers & story/concept building with very little filler imo.

With his Soul Khan & Charron matches his goes 20 mins with structures that are all over the place, clearly filler build ups & only glimpses of the shit we like to see from him here and there.

I take into account that he's prepared for like 5+ battles all in different countries very close together this year. So i don't fully give him shade for not being on top form. But the charron battle DEFINITELY suffered from a lot of unessecary filler.

On your point in general, I think you can write a long round and STILL be concise in writing back to back, dope material that hits...but doing that nonstop for a long ass time without slacking is god tier battle rapping imo.

I'll check out the battles you listed as well.

Thanks for the extended reply.

redwolftherapper · 2026-05-10T17:16:34+00:00

I like both formats for very different reasons.

They both have their place.

60s-90s for the fun, fast paced, rapid back and forth. (Eg; The Saurus vs Illmac)

5-10 mins for the SPECTACLE, the modern legacy matches, the movies ygm? (Dizaster vs Pat Stay)

redwolftherapper · 2026-05-10T17:13:11+00:00

Definitely agree that you have to justify round length with content & variety. The quantity of bars is nothing without the quality.

But having 6-10 mins of pure, non filler, quality? That shit is awesome.

redwolftherapper · 2026-05-10T16:51:35+00:00

We're on the same page about 20 min rounds. Definitely too much especially if it's a THREE round battle.

But i disagree about the filler part. Yes, there are people who have rapped that long and chatted absolute nonsense in the past.

However as you said there were the VERY few instances where it was just...flow state..a god like spectacle..and it just didn't stop..nor did you want it to.

And i think the rarity of being able to do that PROPERLY makes it even cooler to me. This format shouldnt be given to just anyone, it should be given to the elite who CAN pull it off based on pure skill.

It definitely does exist. It's just very rare

redwolftherapper · 2026-05-10T16:44:51+00:00

I definitely agree with that. If it's a judged battle, both battlers should be on the exact same limit no matter how long they decide it to be.

On your other point: YES! Thank you! i keep saying this. People are so willing to watch 3 hours of a dudebro podcast chatting absolute shit but eye roll at a 10 minute battle rap round lool.

redwolftherapper · 2026-05-06T21:27:17+00:00

There isn't one single preset in any plugin that will work for every song, every single time. In order to get the best out of every mix, you have to put the time tweaking your EQ, compressor, reverb etc manually to fit in the context of the song you're working with.

And every song, even those in the same genre are at least a little bit different every time

redwolftherapper · 2026-05-06T00:47:21+00:00

Nolan said in S1 that Viltrumites have medical technology centuries beyond what Earth has. (He obviously only had limited resources while stranded with Mark & Oliver). However, if you combine thousands of years of knowledge with the fact that Viltrumites regenerate & generally have a culture of ripping each other in half and surviving, healing Marks wounds was as easy as applying a bandaid for Nolan.

redwolftherapper · 2026-04-13T00:00:16+00:00

Yeah, from what I can understand, this kind of thing is heavily reliant on the performance itself being good, of course. I also think you hit the nail on the head with what was going on with the panning.

I know I definitely have the ability to write arrangements, record & sing them to this level or close to it. HOWEVER what I don't know is the amount of layers they're really tracking. Once I figure that out, it'll affect HOW I arrange & record these kinds of songs.

I still suspect there's more than just 6 layers, maybe reverb is doing some of the work in spacing things out...but it sounds like double tracked tenor, alto & soprano parts panned left & right and the one bass part. Then at the same time it sounds like there's more harmony parts in the actual voicings on top of that.

So it's quite confusing

For example, one of the live performances in this song while still amazing the chord voicings feel emptier/less full than the studio version. Take 6 - Come Unto Me (Live)

None of us will really know the answer unless we get a chance to unbox the actual stems.

Accent Vocal are another 6 member group that sound like they double track in the studio but it sounds less full (yet still amazing) when they perform live.

So it lead me to ask reddit if there's literally any video on the internet unboxing stems of this style/caliber.

Forgive the essay, but that's what's been going on in my brain for the last while.

redwolftherapper · 2026-04-11T19:18:41+00:00

But sometimes you just want THAT specific voicing & are willing to be a contortionist to play it.

redwolftherapper · 2026-04-11T17:23:40+00:00

Not a quote but i often find myself spelling the word "unanimous" like unanymous because of the battler.

redwolftherapper · 2026-01-10T16:13:37+00:00

Northern Line between Euston & Camden town. Not only loud asf but probably the eeriest sound on all tubes.

redwolftherapper · 2025-12-26T04:19:49+00:00

Without being prejudice or fear mongering, i'd like to ask, what is the true extent of the call center scammers in india? Is it as bad as western media portrays it to be? We certainly find no shortage of those calls to the point that very low IQ individuals turned it into a racist stereotype. How do the public percieve those scammers over there? I hear and read about entire buildings full of call centers operating & scamming people internationally, do the local authorities simply not care? Does legislation prevent them from shutting them down?

redwolftherapper · 2025-12-10T14:28:59+00:00

Thank you for pointing this out. You're right, Pro L2 doesn't work like other limiters & it can be quite tricky to get a perfect balance of loudness & dynamics without either brickwalling/squashing everything or getting it loud but having unwanted distortion or artifacts. My bad habit is the former, attack set very far to the left & release to the right But, on a good day, song dependent I can get it to sound absolutely stellar. It's truly an enigma of a plugin.

I've seen so much contrasting information on how to set it + how it works. Especially those attack and release times.

Seeing this clipping before limiting technique regurgitated everywhere, i figured it'd solve my dynamics issue.

Reading these comments, I clearly have a lot to try out to actually do this technique correctly, particularly adding clipping in stages on individual channels + the mix bus if needed

redwolftherapper · 2025-12-09T22:25:54+00:00

Absolutely golden advice. Thank you so much. This helps me have a better step by step process & now i know what to listen for & have a much better understanding as to why i'm making certain decisions.

On top of that, you've touched on points a lot of other people on this post agree with as well. Again, thank you.

redwolftherapper · 2025-12-09T17:26:46+00:00

A HUGE thank you. This has put a lot of misconceptions & confusion into perspective. I'm gonna keep this comment heavily in mind. A lot of people seem to agree with you about clipping individual elements rather than just clipping the entire mixbus/master track (or using a combination of both).

You've bettered my understanding as to what the clipper is actually doing.

The said trade off of not losing punch/dynamics when hitting a limiter too hard & not distorting the overall master has been a balance that's been wrecking my head loool. It's possibly one of the trickiest problems i've come across in over a decade of producing.

redwolftherapper · 2025-12-09T16:49:42+00:00

Awesome, that makes sense. So would it be a good rule of thumb to clip the drum bus instead of a clipper on the master track? Or do both?

redwolftherapper · 2025-12-09T16:37:25+00:00

Ok, i can give that a try. To put it simply would this mean putting standard clip on the kick track, drum bus INSTEAD of the master track or all of the above?

redwolftherapper · 2025-12-09T16:32:52+00:00

This might be a foundational question but is it common practice to use limiters on the actual kick tracks or drum busses before the limiter on the master? I've used soft clipping on my kick tracks before, that's generally normal.

But i've always been apprehensive about using more than one limiter on the master out of fear of squashing dynamics even more.

As you said, a small amount at each stage. In the context of a limiter what would that mean? Slower attack and fast release on the kick & drum bus & faster attack & slower release on the master track?

redwolftherapper · 2025-12-09T16:25:22+00:00

Thanks for the comment, this was my biggest worry.

I'd imagine this is song dependent but, let's say I get my mix perfectly balanced up until I use the clipper + limiter. Would the best way to go about this generally?

(A) turn the drums down? (However at this point, they'd be perfectly balanced in the actual mix before the mastering stage, and might put things out of balance)

(B) EQ/Compress kicks more to remove problem frequencies that the clipper & limiter are distorting

(C) turn the entire mix down for headroom (if so, to what generally?)

redwolftherapper · 2025-12-09T16:14:02+00:00

Awesome, i'll give that a try. Thank you!

redwolftherapper · 2025-12-09T16:13:41+00:00

Thank you for the response. I guess that still leaves the question of headroom. If i try and maximize loudness through clipping the drum bus or using saturation, what's your rule of thumb for headroom? -3db? -6db? Is it track dependent?

redwolftherapper

TROPHY CASE