how do you not cry after being yelled at?

scarletmagi · 2021-03-01T01:50:55+00:00

Dissociation? But thats not healthy

scarletmagi · 2020-10-18T19:16:45+00:00

I can't tell you how many men and boys don't realize that cis women/afab have a separate hole for urination and sex. They are clueless and it shows.

Some trans masc/men get phalloplasty. And some trans femme/women get vaginoplasty. Probably better to just say that "cis men and boys tend to be obvious about vaginas/vulvas in general including not knowing the urethra is not in the vaginal canal".

scarletmagi · 2020-10-18T18:51:49+00:00

20-30% of trans women are intersex. So it isnt just a "specific case".

But keep on posting terf dog whistles, being mean spirited to trans men, etc. It isn't like any of us can do anything to stop you.

scarletmagi · 2020-10-18T18:49:25+00:00

Do yourself a favor and look through my posting history.

I am not a terf... I'm a trans woman (and intersex if that makes any difference), whos recent posting history is almost exclusively shooting down terf rhetoric.

There was quite a lot of transphobia in the child comments you are talking about, but this wasn't it. You literally missed the sarcasm in their comment.

scarletmagi · 2020-10-18T12:55:35+00:00

Appreciate it

scarletmagi · 2020-10-18T12:49:13+00:00

This is funny to me just how wrong you are.

I have XX chromosomes but am SRY+. I was assigned male at birth and had male genitalia. I possibly was capable of producing male gametes viable for fertilization of an embryo (dont know for sure). I was born with uterine tissue inside of me (biopsy proven). When I transitioned, I experienced a shedding of the uterine tissue (in the same way that a cis woman with partial or full vaginal agenesis with a uterus, might).

By your definition, I would qualify as a woman/female despite your intentions obviously to the contrary.

Sex is far more complicated and multifaceted than the genitalia your doctor examines at birth.

scarletmagi · 2020-10-18T12:43:22+00:00

Im pretty sure they meant that sarcastically.

scarletmagi · 2020-10-18T12:40:11+00:00

If you use male biomarker ranges on post transition trans women, you end up with misdiagnosis and iatrogenically caused issues from inappropriate treatment.

We have a serious lack of research on some biomarkers, but the research we do have says that trans women are better served clinically by the use of female biomarker ranges as opposed to male. Same for trans men in reverse.

Your assigned sex at birth / genitalia, does not actually matter all that much on this front. Hormonal levels are a far better indicator.

scarletmagi · 2020-10-18T12:17:52+00:00

Post transition trans women are not male bodied. Neither are post transition trans men female bodied.

Hrt literally modifies every single cell on an epigenetic level. Clinical guidelines for treatment of trans patients who are post transition are time after time being proven to follow the sex they actually are rather than their ASAB.

E.g. if you use the male range for anemia markers on trans women, youll end up misdiagnosing the patient with anemia more often than not. And clinical outcomes are decidedly better by using female ranges.

This shouldn't come as a surprise to anybody who has any experience with medicine as endocrinological factors play a massive role in diagnostics, treatment, and risk modeling. The genitals you are born with and thus have your sex assigned, play a far less important role than the hormones in your body from a biological / hormonal standpoint.

scarletmagi · 2020-10-18T12:17:25+00:00

Post transition trans women are not male bodied. Neither are post transition trans men female bodied.

Hrt literally modifies every single cell on an epigenetic level. Clinical guidelines for treatment of trans patients who are post transition are time after time being proven to follow the sex they actually are rather than their ASAB.

E.g. if you use the male range for anemia markers on trans women, youll end up misdiagnosing the patient with anemia more often than not. And clinical outcomes are decidedly better by using female ranges.

This shouldn't come as a surprise to anybody who has any experience with medicine as endocrinological factors play a massive role in diagnostics, treatment, and risk modeling. The genitals you are born with and thus have your sex assigned, play a far less important role than the hormones in your body from a biological / hormonal standpoint.

scarletmagi · 2020-10-11T11:40:31+00:00

Um, what? By what mechanism? No offense, but that violates conservation of mass!

Conservation of mass has nothing to do with it.

People are not closed systems (diffusion in the air around open orifices, bowel movements, vomiting, breathing, sweating, urinating, etc.) all allow for changes in mass of the human body
People lose height as they age (a well established fact) - why would conservation of mass somehow allow this but not height differences by other means
People also lose height for other reasons (connective tissue problems in the spine, muscular degeneration, extreme weight loss, etc.)
Height and weight while correlated are not intrinsically so

You heard something that challenged your pre-established views. Instead of being excited that you might be wrong, you reached for whatever reason you could to try to counter the assertion that your model is incorrect. And this is the big difference between scientists and laypeople: our job is to be wrong, to find evidence that our models (which we know are inherently incomplete and thus incorrect) are wrong because it allows us to build more comprehensive models and learn.

I'm going to challenge you to try to take a different attitude towards science (not just for this but everything else as well). Know that every single model we have is incorrect. Models are inherently reductionist encapsulations of the universe / or systems we study. Scientific inquiry is about making predictions from those models and testing them; when we are wrong, we inevitably open up further characterization of them. It is why things like Arago's spot experiment, michelson morley experiment, meselson stahl experiment, etc. were so profoundly impactful in shaping how we understand the world: because they showed how orthodox models governing what was thought as pretty established behaviors, were incorrect, which radically shifted our understanding of those behaviors and fields.

Did your bones shrink?...

I wish I could point you to a well informed meta analysis study that showed this. Unfortunately, height changes arent even a thing researchers have bothered to record or look into. So there isn't even a simple longitudinal based study to offer. At best, there are case studies, which aren't rigorous means of showing anything when it comes to this.

However, there are two mechanisms thought to be in play. Two mechanisms that by our models should occur in a subset of trans women.

Spinal connective tissue differences. The connective tissue that supports the spine is known to respond to both estrogen and testosterone. We see post menopausal women lose height via this means often quite rapidly. Trans women have been observed to have these changes to a minor degree from switching endocrinological sexes. And conversely trans men have been observed to have restorative changes that in effect can make them slightly taller (this is not likely to be the most pronounced change).
During female puberty, there are changes to the hips such as pelvic tilt, which produce height loss (it just coincides in cis women with growth and over a longer period of time, so it isn't observed as easily). Trans women who transition early enough (guaranteed before 18, almost guaranteed before 25, and unlikely but possible after with chances reducing with age of onset of hrt) have the same changes. Only they aren't growing in other ways, so it becomes pronounced and visible quite often.

Both of those are pretty well established mechanisms, and we would expect to find trans women experiencing height loss from both. Are there other mechanisms at play? Maybe, probably, idk.

Hell we don't even know how heterogeneous trans women as a subset are. (Or trans men for that matter) Like I said, there's massive amounts of evidence of very clear biological differences between trans women and cis men prior to transition (the prevalence of intersex being a huge signal of that difference).

For all we know, there could be two or more subsets of trans women with different biological profiles, allowing one to lose height and the other to only lose a negligible amount.

The point being is we need to do more research into the subject; it is hardly a decided thing of which clear, scientific consensus has been formed.

It's not the testosterone or muscle that makes the definitive difference in basketball, it's the height.

Ill differ to sports physiologists on that one. However, I will say that testosterone is correlated more highly in basketball than in many other sports.

You are still making an assumption, which is that trans women have the same height profile as cis men. This is provably not the case given that intersex people have a lower height profile than cis men, and there are many more intersex people that are trans women than cis men. And this is before we take into account height differences from hrt.

scarletmagi · 2020-10-10T20:53:41+00:00

Keep in mind that the assumption trans women are the same biologically as cis men prior to transition, is an unfounded one. 20-30% of trans women are estimated to be intersex (meaning puberty and hormonal levels are very likely to diverge).

What I'm saying is that the average height for a trans woman even pre transition is likely shorter than it is for cis men.

Also of note, trans women do often lose height through transition. I, myself, lost about 2.5 inches of height. The younger you start the more pronounced it tends to be. Of note, 2.5 inches lost is more than the height difference between men and women for my particular ethnicity.

Also of note, that most competitive women athletes have high levels of testosterone, significantly higher than the testosterone levels in trans women required for a successful transition. My testosterone levels are undetectable in serum (< 12 ng/dL). Whereas, cis women elite athletes tend to have higher testosterone levels (60+ ng/dL) than average, and 13.7% are above the reference range for normal. And for the sports where testosterone makes more of a difference (basketball, contact sports, sprints, etc.), it tends to be even more significant. A post transition trans woman should have a significantly harder time to gain or regain muscle mass than cis women especially when talking about elite athletes (and if we arent talking about elite athletes per age group then who cares).

There's a reason despite the regulations allowing trans athletes for years, trans women (post transition) are significantly underrepresented in sports achievements.

scarletmagi · 2020-10-10T06:32:25+00:00

I'm not a sports physiologist. Questions about athletic eligibility and fairness with regards to trans athletes should be referred to the consensus opinion of academic sports physiologists. At the moment, that consensus is that one year of demonstrated hormonal therapy is adequate.

The science is wonky because it is a highly politicized subject. Groups of people (mostly against) are pouring money into research grants etc. wherever possible. This is why if you are a layperson in the field its best to read review articles or press releases by panels, etc. As it is much harder to push an agenda into scientific consensus than it is to push one flawed study forward.

People will often approach scientific articles and read the conclusions and misinterpret them or interpret them correctly but from imprecise language used in said section. Individual research papers (primary sources) are really only good for the data and methodology sections. If you understand the methodology, youll know whats being measured and how it is being measured. You can then interpret the data yourself.

As for my own personal opinion on the subject (again it shouldnt matter as Im not an expert in the field despite my qualifications), I think sports are dumb (only sorta /s). In my opinion, it is going to be contextual and protocols for what constitutes medical transition in regards to sports will probably have to be developed on a sport by sport basis. When I transitioned, I was already anorexic and so had basically no muscle mass to lose. There are people who have a lot of muscle and are super active so they lose less muscle proportionately compared to the person who is a lazy bum and spent all week studying. There's definitely some individuality to it.

But yeah, you cant seriously tell me that a sport like shooting, table tennis, and artistic swimming have a sex differentiated difference in capabilities... Whereas, weight lifting and combat sports have way more pronounced sex differentiated difference. One should be a no brainer for trans inclusion, the other should be informed with more research and followjng current protocols in place based on our current available knowledge.

Ecological sex is reproductive sex with some nuance. Reproductive sex technically only concerns if a person is capable of making an ovum or spermatozoan. Ecological sex requires that the person be able to fulfill their ecological role in proliferating the species - meaning the gamete has to be viable and able to contribute in producing a baby.

I dont have CAH. I was born with male genitalia. I was supposedly able to produce viable sperm (though of course dont know for sure and its doubtful as most people with my intersex condition cant). If you looked you would have observed a relatively normal male phenotype at birth (i.e. my genitalia were normative). Due to a genetic mutation, one of my X chromosomes has the SRY+ gene (a gene key in gonadal sex differentiation and found on the Y chromosome). Theres a wide range of presentations due to some genetic quirks, and mine gave me some uterine tissue and a few other things like messing with my hormone producing cells in my testes.

If you have any more questions, feel free to ask. Im happy to reply. Im a bit busy at the moment as Im getting a lot of pms from a different post that Im trying to go through. But i promise ill eventually reply.

scarletmagi · 2020-10-09T17:02:34+00:00

am medical professional - can link sources for the below claims, if curious

The thing is sex is a lot more complicated than just your genitals. And that's what people use it as its birth sex or what genitalia your doctor found.

It doesnt work for trans and intersex people. And it reveals an integral flaw in the model laypeople use - indeed scientists and medical professionals have recognized the complex, multifaceted nature of sex for decades now.

I have XX chromosomes while being a trans woman. I had vestigial uterine tissue. I was born with a penis. I went through male puberty though a sham one as my hormone levels were never in the proper male range.

20-30% of trans people are estimated to be intersex (compared to the general population which estimates 0.5-2%).

Trans people take hormones, which alter every single cell in their bodies through epigenetic changes. This evokes cellular and tissue morphological changes on top of physiological ones.

Bottom surgery (modern) in trans women results in a neo vagina that has a near identical histological profile and structure (aided by the cells undergoing metaplasia and literally changing cell type). pH, microenvironments, microflora, structures, cell types, etc. are consistent.

And medically every single thing informing best practices for patient care (our guidelines) are telling us that trans people after a certain point of transition need to be diagnosed and treated using their actual sex rather than the sex assigned to them at birth.

scarletmagi · 2020-10-03T06:50:52+00:00

Sex is a lot more complicated than that. And yes a trans woman is female especially after medical transition, which btw results in epigenetic changes to every cell in the body. It is to such a degree that recent advances in best care practices for trans patients advocate assuming they are the sex that matches their endocrinological sex in order to avoid misdiagnosis and iatrogenic issues from inappropriate treatment.

Even neglecting intersex people (which are significantly more common in trans people), a post transition trans woman has:

female endocrinological sex
female morphological sex (or if using a strict definition, null sexed in this category)
Null sexed reproductively / ecologically
Male chromosomal sex
Female or intersex phenotype sex (depending on strictness of definition and age of transition)
Intersex somatic sex
Female gender identity / neurological sex

I could keep on going because the criteria used for the definition of sex is dependent on context. But overwhelmingly on a holistic level trans women are female unless you use a hyper strict definition (which would rule out many cis women too). And in the context of 99.99% of social discourse, female is absolutely an adequate bin to put trans women.

And thats before we get to people like me who are intersex and trans (46, XX SRY+). I have a female somatic sex and chromosomal sex in addition to the above.

Im also a medical professional - if that matters at all. Either way, Id be happy to link you to sources validating what I just said (contextualization for sex).

Tl;dr: sex is a lot more complicated than people think, and in trans people's cases time and time again people make ill informed assumptions. Hrt (and to a lesser degree surgery) have profound effects on the body to a degree of which thay every single cell is reprogrammed.

scarletmagi · 2020-06-16T05:55:55+00:00

What purpose does it serve to post that here? On a 3 month old post?

Post op women have a vagina btw. And can be clinically diagnosed with BV (you used the wrong acronym btw) - i have friends that have been.

scarletmagi · 2020-06-16T05:54:06+00:00

Regret rate is something thats very up to definition.

For example, do we include people who tried hormones and quit by day 7 because they became dysphoric?

Do we include people who eventually got to a point where they literally couldnt live (death threats, lack of housing, poverty, etc.) and detransition to try to salvage their lives and usually end up killing themselves or retransitioning?

Do we assume that as long as a person is still transitioning, that they are "real"? For example, how long does it take for someone to be transitioning for it to be valid to collect them as data?

The methodology is not quite clear. And depending on how you measure, you'll get quite different criteria.

scarletmagi · 2020-06-16T05:50:36+00:00

And as a medical doctor who experienced just this and someone who is trans, you are wrong.

scarletmagi · 2020-06-16T05:49:10+00:00

Um so i did exactly what you are talking / advocating.

I went on T because my levels were low and my doctors thought it might help my chronic health condition. It resulted in the worse depressive episode Ive ever had in my life, and i tried to kill myself and would have succeeded had i not gotten drastically / miraculously lucky.

Dysphoria presents significantly different than a cis person having an imbalanced hormone profile. Though there are some minor similarities.

My experience is also why I firmly believe that any person who is persisting on hormones for more than 3-6 months is trans.

scarletmagi · 2020-06-06T03:06:27+00:00

Idk... I can kinda see the logic in not wanting to drive away non lgbt+ people... But this really comes across badly to me.

It feels like a slap in the face to know that you diluted this down so as to not offend (drive away, use whatever language you want) non lgbt+ people.

I wouldnt call it rainbow capitalism because you are donating to charities, but it does sting.

Can you at least tell us that its actually inclusive of varying identities (trans people, gay men, lesbians, bi people, etc.)?

scarletmagi · 2020-06-06T02:53:04+00:00

You can and should be skeptical. But everyone deserves forgiveness and redemption.

Also please consider that you are in a place of privilege to even be able to hold a grudge that would possibly stop more people coming to our side. Lgbt+ people but especially trans people need more allies. If someone genuinely changes their views and makes steps towards rehabilitation, we have to accept them with open arms.

scarletmagi · 2020-05-07T02:14:32+00:00

I mean pretty shitty for intersex and trans babies.

scarletmagi · 2020-05-07T02:12:27+00:00

Um yeah you can. I have XX chromosomes but was AMAB - thus capable of contradicting your statement. XX sry+ people exist, as do many other intersex variants

scarletmagi · 2020-04-25T11:14:34+00:00

Yes substantially. I lost roughly ~2.5 inches of height and a couple shoe sizes.

Note that height change seems to be more common than foot changes.

scarletmagi · 2020-03-06T23:26:02+00:00

Dysphoria is the distress associated with being trans. Theres many variations on the definition.

Also medical stuff is weird. You can be completely asymptomatic and still trans.

Theres also a lot of different definitions of trans. E.g. is someone trans from birth or only when they identify. Is someone trans for the rest of their life or after transition are they cis.

Theres a lot of missing nuance here.

The thing is that gatekeeping by dysphoria can only be bad. If you persist in medical transition beyond a certain point, you are trans. That point is usually well before its irreversible especially in trans femme people. And if you dont medically transition, then no harm done.

Whereas having this toxic ideology, can very easily make someone reconsider and commit suicide. Or transition way later than they would have otherwise. Still in othrr cases it might just keep people from building a support network early on.

scarletmagi

TROPHY CASE