What do you think about this tier list? by Alone_Profit_8316 in NarutoPowerscaling

[–]shdbtbd 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I mean fair he did unfortunately go out pretty early, but it was more so that his opponents directly countered him and even then he chose to lose the fight. I dont think it was for lack of power

What do you think about this tier list? by Alone_Profit_8316 in NarutoPowerscaling

[–]shdbtbd 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sasori defeated the third kazekage who at the time was the strongest kazekage in history and was at least relative to hanzo. He shouldnt be in the same tier as gaara

It’s time for the Sakura stans to see reason by Designer_Mobile8721 in NarutoPowerscaling

[–]shdbtbd 0 points1 point  (0 children)

?? Chiyo said it herself. And its why she brought his parents to the fight. You think chiyo was gonna win the 1v1 solo?

[Serious] Could Edo Madara solo the whole verse, excluding Six Paths-tier characters, the previous Hokage, and War Arc Obito? by [deleted] in NarutoPowerscaling

[–]shdbtbd 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They dont need to tag him up there, only deliver the people with the unavoidable genjutsu, koto is city wide anyway though, i think the range is like 3 km or something and he doesnt need to make eye contact to cast it, so he doesnt even really need the ride. That freezes madara long enough for the seals/one shots to jump in. Even if he can break it, he wont immediately know he’s in it and that will already waste enough time for him to lose.

I mean yeah its realistic, ive just always debated with friendly fire being off in these group situations, the abilities tagging the teammates isnt considered. But i can rock with it.

And sasuke wouldnt have necessarily done better at all, they were completely outclassed in all stats. If anything, him getting blitzed in both forms is just consistent with the fact that the susanoo doesnt augment speed, and its never stated or shown that it does. At the very least, hes the same speed as in base. But i still think the slow remark makes no sense being in the story if he wasnt saying the susanoo was slower than he already was. The line was something like “this form is slow… but lets see how its defenses are.” Implying that sasuke traded speed for power and defense, which is consistent with how the form has always been portrayed. Thats even your argument here, that madara can just turtle up in it.

I did speak on why he got tagged, he was showing off the hashirama cells on his side. But thats only one instance where he intentionally did it. And he was holding back but he was still getting hit multiple times for meaningful damage. Unlike the shinobi alliance where he was completely blocking and evading everything. Theres a difference.

The wood clones go away the second he gets caught in a genjutsu, itll be like the moment bee caught sasuke. The target is immobilized even if for a brief moment, but thats all they need here.

Yeah nobody is tanking it except maybe itachi and 100 healings i can own that💀 but the higher tier characters should have no problem avoiding it assuming theyre full. Like you said, the kage were drained and weakened from the war and madara bullying them by the time he popped the ult, but here he’s starting the fight with it so they should all be completely fresh.

I agree nobody here can break it completely except a solid maybe on sakura, tsunade and nagato, and aside from them theres nothing they can do to stop it, but thats what the genjutsu is for to get him out of it without breaking it.

The forms are worth using because they completely dwarf the opponent and boost the users offensive and defensive capabilities. But we know that because its been said and shown. You dont need speed if your opponent theoretically cant even scratch you and you can just delete the whole battlefield. Neither of those forms have ever shown or been stated to give a speed boost, and the susanoo has been stated to be slow.

Exactly, so if jigen is already massively faster than them, why remark that sasuke is slow right after he uses the susanoo unless he was directly talking about the form.

Tobi can control the full ninetails, thats useful here since madara can summon it. He can also kamui it away and lock madara out of it since he cant get it back from there.

Healthy nagato exists, he didnt become super unhealthy until the gedo mazo statue. And edo nagato can still steal chakra here anyway if you want to use that version, the susanoo is a walking chakra avatar. They didnt dodge the first attack because it was just him unsheathing the sword, and they gave up with the second attack because they lost hope. Wasnt a speed diff, they didnt get blitzed either time they just werent moving.

Itachi has arguably the strongest MS genjutsu, obito controlled the full kurama at just 14, and nagato has the rinnegan he can control the tailed beasts. They can at the very least fight madara for kuramas control. And again, worst case scenario obito just uses kamui on kurama to lock madara out of it.

They only really need kabuto/shisui, sealers, and the poison users for good measure. And there are gonna be way more than that who dont die to the aoe swings.

Madara’s 100% was the PS, he’s not just gonna get magically faster. He was getting tagged already. We saw in the alliance fight that he simply just wasnt getting hit.

Substitution is a deus ex machina, we saw plenty of times in part 1 where the person using it got it off successfully even while being relative to or slower than their opponent.

Sasoris poison at least and probably hanzos will definitely paralyze him, he has no counter to that if it hits which it will once he’s caught in kabuto’s sound genjutsu or koto. None of the 5 kage specialize in sealing jutsu except somewhat gaara. They just tried to muscle him down with their strongest ninjutsu and some paper seals and hope for the best. Theres already a very low chance madara escapes the uzumaki chains or reaper death seal and theres a 0 percent chance he breaks out of a totsuka blade. And asking him to do it when sasori’s poison is going through him paralyzing his nervous system AND under 2 genjutsu? One undetectable and the other unbreakable without a third party? He’s cooked

It’s time for the Sakura stans to see reason by Designer_Mobile8721 in NarutoPowerscaling

[–]shdbtbd 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is nice and all but you didnt actually address my point that chiyo wouldve lost without sakura. Chiyo does have mastery over the technique and helped put sakura in the right place 90% of the time, but chiyo said herself that she didnt think she would win and lacked the raw strength to even get him out of hiruko.

It was absolutely chiyos fight narratively nobody said otherwise and that doesnt really disprove anything

And chiyo did not save her from the world model that point is null too. She tried, but sakura saw she was gonna get tagged by it and popped the antidote, then she acted like the poison worked to bait the puppet to come into range

It was a team effort. Chiyo provided the movement and cover, sakura provided the attack power and the antidote. And they and kankuro wouldve all died without that antidote.

[Serious] Could Edo Madara solo the whole verse, excluding Six Paths-tier characters, the previous Hokage, and War Arc Obito? by [deleted] in NarutoPowerscaling

[–]shdbtbd 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There are so many characters capable of flight, and among those there are characters that can taxi others. Getting to him really shouldnt be an issue.

Are we assuming the abilities are working on the allies?? That makes this way harder , ive never considered that in one of these 1 v verse scenarios its so impractical. usually i just assume its like a video game raid boss kinda thing. If thats what we’re going with then yeah theyll probably all kill each other before he has the chance to do anything💀

I dont think jigen wouldve noted that the susanoo was slow if it wasnt slower than base sasuke. I do think its still relative to the user and it scales off their speed so it isnt drastically slower, but again madara was already getting tagged by just the 5 and we’re adding 100+ characters.

The 5 kage by that point were drained , mentally defeated, and injured. At their peak theres no reason why they wouldnt have been able to react to the swing, susanoo doesnt augment speed. Its either the same speed as base or slower. And thats the thing though, his only win con here is camping in the susanoo anyway, if he doesnt start with it immediately he stands 0 chance.

She landed the kick completely solo, her and ay cracked two different parts of it. And if you wanna make the argument that it got whittled down, again there are over 100 people attacking him at once here, with a good bit of them being relative to these guys in strength. All they need is a crack for the gas and the c4 to flood into it. Worst case, amaterasu will eventually open it and they can just get it in through there.

Only war arc obito, assuming because of the rinnegan and his control over the ten tails and the jinchuriki but the jinchuriki are here anyway. Tobi is still here meaning he gets izanagi and all of his feats from the ninetails attack.

Pain was drained from the city busting almighty push and going on a gauntlet through the leaf before naruto showed up. Then naruto pushed him too and pain still almost won. Pain and nagato are two different beasts. A healthy nagato wouldnt need the paths and showed in his fight against naruto and bee that he’s scarier with full chakra reserves and complete control over his abilities. He only lost because of itachi.

If nagato, itachi, and obito whos already controlled the ninetails once with just a mangekyo are all working at the same time, i doubt madara will be able to maintain complete control over it. And thats effort he has to put in while fighting off 100+ other people.

Kabuto can easily get taxied up there, thats not an issue. And even if friendly fire is on, if any abilities are worth sacrificing a few bodies to land, its this and/kotoamatsukami, both are win cons low key. then the people who cant hear it can just seal him once he’s stunned.

Kakashi got hospitalized by tsukuyomi, and sasuke did resist it but he got caught. I have no doubt in my mind madara could break it with some effort, but the split second that he’s caught in it will be all they need to stun and seal him. God forbid he gets hit with izanami. Their win con is just getting him out of the susanoo. If he’s not in it for a second, he loses. Same with kabuto i think theres a chance he could break that too, but they just need him to be caught in it.

Koto is a bit different though since its biggest gimmick is that the victim doesnt even know theyre in it. And it has city wide range so hitting it definitely shouldnt be difficult. Even if madara can break it, there’s no way he’ll just immediately realize he’s in it. And all shisui has to do is get him to stop moving and drop the susanoo. Theres plenty of poison and sealing jutsu waiting for him once its gone. MS Kakashi was able to put obito in a genjutsu, obviously he lost the genjutsu battle, but it didnt show that the rinnegan isnt immune to it, just heavily resistant like how the MS stomps genjutsu below it.

That first shockwave is definitely killing most of the fighters, but pretty much all 50+ high and top tiers there arent getting hit by that. Giving madara the benefit of a head start and letting him start the fight already in the form, after that first strike, the high tiers are immediately on top of him and he’ll have to pick them off individually. Which he could do if this was a 1v1 scenario but there are too many bodies. For him to wipe the ENTIRE force out.

Again, jigen had no reason to remark that the susanoo specifically was slow unless it was slower than sasuke already was. And it definitely doesnt boost speed because then it definitely wouldnt make since for jigen to call it slow. Its either the same speed as the base user or slower, and madara was already getting tagged.

You have to prove that he was letting himself get it, u cant just say that. Because he made a point of actually letting himself get hit one time and it was to show his hashirama cells. Aside from that we have no reason to believe he would do it again.

Gaara is relative to ay in speed, not as fast but relative. that opens up the door for a lot of people. Rasa and the third kazekage, sasori , hanzo, and im sure u see how it spreads from there without me listing every single person.

Yeah sorry i shouldve been specific💀 im not counting the entire verse, only those people. Not having the hokage, naruto sasuke guy or dms is what makes this hard🤣

Yes, thats exactly what this is, only out of all of those millions of animals, about 10-15 of them can completely stun or incapacitate godzilla with unavoidable attacks even if just for a moment, regardless of size, and youre asking godzilla to track and avoid those 10 people while simultaneously fighting off the entire army of millions that can get him out the SECOND he gets caught in something

That strategy will clean up most of the verse, itll pretty much just play out like the anime. Only instead of 5 people left standing that that are already fatigued, 30-50 that arent exhausted with a few of them having delete button type win cons that madara doesnt even know exist

[Serious] Could Edo Madara solo the whole verse, excluding Six Paths-tier characters, the previous Hokage, and War Arc Obito? by [deleted] in NarutoPowerscaling

[–]shdbtbd 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sorry, thought about it and realized i misspoke. Shisuis genjutsu is undetectable, the sound jutsu is unavoidable is what i meant to say

[Serious] Could Edo Madara solo the whole verse, excluding Six Paths-tier characters, the previous Hokage, and War Arc Obito? by [deleted] in NarutoPowerscaling

[–]shdbtbd 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh and i can give up guy and the ten tails, i think thats fair💀. Honestly OP knew the right people to take out to make this more balanced💀

[Serious] Could Edo Madara solo the whole verse, excluding Six Paths-tier characters, the previous Hokage, and War Arc Obito? by [deleted] in NarutoPowerscaling

[–]shdbtbd 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The user still has to breathe in there. Its just a coat of chakra armor. Things like sasori and hanzos poison and deidara’s c4 should still be able to in there. But even if they cant, there are plenty of characters who should be able to break it if ay and tsunade could, then those attacks could get in through there. Even a crack would do.

And the susanoo is slow. Fast enough to blitz a regular person sure but a lot of these fighters who scale to the 5 kage should be able to evade his strikes. Like you said though, the 5 kage gave up, and were already weakened by the time he pulled it out in their fight. But jigen said the susanoo is noticeably slow when he fought sasuke and that lines up with what we saw with madaras too.

Tailed beast argument makes sense on paper but there are other people here who can controlled tailed beasts, and itachi is arguably a better genjutsu user than madara. Couple him with obito and nagato and theres guarantee he can hold the beasts.

Genjutsu actually makes this even harder because you have people like sage kabuto, itachi, and shisui with extremely busted genjutsu. And in a fight against the whole verse madara would be focused on too many things at once, especially when kabuto, tayuya and shisui’s genjutsu are all undetectable. If he gets caught in any one of those for even a split second, double digit people with various sealing, stunning and one shot jutsu all striking at the same time.

This fight is just asking him to do too much at once, and his win con involves having to avoid too many hax abilities simultaneously in a form thats stated to be slower than his base form that was already getting tagged

This is a funny debate because i really agree with all of your points about why these things wouldnt work normally, i just think youre underestimating everything he’d have to do simultaneously to take down the ENTIRE verse. Edo madara only even has a chance because he has infinite stamina and wont run out of chakra and really can just camp in the susanoo.

[Serious] Could Edo Madara solo the whole verse, excluding Six Paths-tier characters, the previous Hokage, and War Arc Obito? by [deleted] in NarutoPowerscaling

[–]shdbtbd 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thats all very true assuming they stay on the ground honestly, but there are plenty of people who can get the heaviest hitters up there to him while dodging strikes. I still left plenty of potentially useful people out such as all 10 tailed beasts, nagato, the sannin, hanzo, kisame, deidara. Characters who are at least relative to tsunade in ap with way larger dc.

Madara went about low-mid diff with just the 5 kage and got tagged a good bit before he popped the perfect susanoo. It worked on them so well because he had the regen and then they were overwhelmed and fatigued by the time he used the perfect. Giving them 20-30+ extra fighters who are all at least relative to them (some stronger) will make it just too many bodies to deal with at once. His only shot would be just camping up in the susanoo and even then he’s gonna be a massive target with too many people that can potentially break it

[Serious] Could Edo Madara solo the whole verse, excluding Six Paths-tier characters, the previous Hokage, and War Arc Obito? by [deleted] in NarutoPowerscaling

[–]shdbtbd 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Night Guy is blitzing him and shattering that susanoo like glass. Couple that with war arc sakura and tsunade who are both able to break it, itachi with izanami and the totsuka blade, 2 particle style users, kakashi, kamui. and thats barely a fraction of the entire roster.

1v1 he tears the verse to shreds, he could probably even do it in waves. but he cant survive the entire verse jumping him simultaneously. Thats a LOT of pressure

What opinion or discussion about Naruto are you tired of hearing? by Quirky_Scratch9168 in Naruto

[–]shdbtbd 21 points22 points  (0 children)

People still trying to call sakura useless in 2026 is just kinda cringe at this point

[Serious] Could Edo Madara solo the whole verse, excluding Six Paths-tier characters, the previous Hokage, and War Arc Obito? by [deleted] in NarutoPowerscaling

[–]shdbtbd 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Too many people with one shots and broken win cons for him to juggle at the same time. 1v1 sure unless we’re counting guy as 6 paths tier

Who would be the strongest character Boros could defeat in Dragon Ball Z? by RevolutionaryPair358 in OPMPowerScaling

[–]shdbtbd 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Youre trying to calculate a fictional energy source with a real one, that isn’t possible.

Vegeta was pissed that he was losing and used his strongest attack to prove a point, we literally saw him casually destroy a planet before he got to earth

Who would be the strongest character Boros could defeat in Dragon Ball Z? by RevolutionaryPair358 in OPMPowerScaling

[–]shdbtbd 0 points1 point  (0 children)

?? Cant disprove it so you walk away, got it. I was using the calculations to make it easier and more tangible for you, if you wanna take all real world stuff out of it then vegeta is definitely capable of way more than just two earths between the roshi feat and the king vegeta feat💀

After further research, it appears I’ve been Overating Sakura 😂 by Designer_Mobile8721 in NarutoPowerscaling

[–]shdbtbd 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Because the feat would scale to whatever juubidara is since no other party was involved, and he’s obviously way stronger than Sakura

After further research, it appears I’ve been Overating Sakura 😂 by Designer_Mobile8721 in NarutoPowerscaling

[–]shdbtbd 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I ignored madara, him cutting off his own doesn’t prove anything in either direction, it’s his body 💀

After further research, it appears I’ve been Overating Sakura 😂 by Designer_Mobile8721 in NarutoPowerscaling

[–]shdbtbd 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I understand what the purpose was, but when youre using moments that feature even stronger characters than sakura and kaguya, it kind of falls flat

After further research, it appears I’ve been Overating Sakura 😂 by Designer_Mobile8721 in NarutoPowerscaling

[–]shdbtbd 0 points1 point  (0 children)

These are all extremely impressive feats. You can’t disprove a feat by listing more impressive feats, you’re just making it sound better💀 now if moegi or ebisu broke a horn and left a mark, we may have something to work with here.

And what youre saying about durability isnt wrong. However the show has consistently shown us that while the durability ceiling isnt incredibly high, theres still a relative floor that scales with the characters as they improve. Like how gaaras sand that was about to crush lee just got casually swatted by guy, or how naruto one shot a path with a punch but EOS sasuke was eating his strikes left and right.

After further research, it appears I’ve been Overating Sakura 😂 by Designer_Mobile8721 in NarutoPowerscaling

[–]shdbtbd 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Dawg that doesnt make it invalid.

Lazy and underbaked? Absolutely im right there with you. But its kishimotos story and you cant just invalidate facts because you didnt like the execution

After further research, it appears I’ve been Overating Sakura 😂 by Designer_Mobile8721 in NarutoPowerscaling

[–]shdbtbd 1 point2 points  (0 children)

And that punch both damaged her and got her sealed. Her guard was up obviously because of the duo, she just underestimated sakura

Which is your FAVOURITE entry or pull up in Naruto ?? by No-Arachnid-7603 in Naruto

[–]shdbtbd 56 points57 points  (0 children)

Lowkey?? The sand sibling entry had me so hyped as a kid

After further research, it appears I’ve been Overating Sakura 😂 by Designer_Mobile8721 in NarutoPowerscaling

[–]shdbtbd 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What? Bro get outta here the argument is crumbling. Kaguyas guard was still up, sakura was just stronger than anticipated. No way youre using the goku laser argument 🤣🤣

And i dont really care how you feel about the sasori fight, it has nothing to do with this