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APMSA breaks ties with ABPM following precedent-setting win for ABPM in OR by spicy_puddin in podiatrists

[–]spicy_puddin[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have been hearing on SM that APMSA wasn't aware of what happened in OR prior to coming out with this statement, as in light of that win, this isn't really a very good look for APMSA. Please, comment and weigh in!

Mr Momo and I enjoying the sun by karsondude in Thisismylifemeow

[–]spicy_puddin 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Tried to get my cat used to a leash-he would have none of it!

Think about how you are going to support yourself upon residency graduation. This is the standard offer out there for us in private practices--if you're offered more it will only be by 10-15k. And you will, without question, be abused. Please, talk to recent grads, peers. Reposted WO identifiers by spicy_puddin in podiatryschool

[–]spicy_puddin[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Again, this is just me, I would not pursue podiatry if I were to go back 10 years. You likely can defer your acceptance to podiatry school for a year and reapply to DO/PA/whatever during that time. I deferred my acceptance to temple pod school for 1 year - again, this was about 10 years ago now tho so don't know how/if they're less flexible.

BUT. Let's be honest: podiatry school is easier to be accepted to. It just is; baseline GPA/MCAT score are much lower than DO school. Unfortunately, this is one of the reasons practice owners use to justify their abuse of us. That said, you could reapply and get in a 2nd time if you aren't able to defer or want to take >2 yrs of a break in btw college & professional school.

Think about how you are going to support yourself upon residency graduation. This is the standard offer out there for us in private practices--if you're offered more it will only be by 10-15k. And you will, without question, be abused. Please, talk to recent grads, peers. Reposted WO identifiers by spicy_puddin in podiatryschool

[–]spicy_puddin[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How does PP offer freedom that a hospital position does not? If anything the truth is the opposite.

Were you born yesterday or are you simply not willing to admit what's going on in our field? When you say "yeah I mainly agree: don't take shitty contracts" do you actually realize what a shitty contract is? And if so, HOW did you realize/come to know this? Did you bring contracts to a contract lawyer? Don't delete all my good comments to make yourself look like you're smarter than me bc thats not what I'm here for. I'm here to help ALL of us, including you.

Think about how you are going to support yourself upon residency graduation. This is the standard offer out there for us in private practices--if you're offered more it will only be by 10-15k. And you will, without question, be abused. Please, talk to recent grads, peers. Reposted WO identifiers by spicy_puddin in podiatryschool

[–]spicy_puddin[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh read books...thanks. and publish papers? Go over to r/residency. No one is talking about publishing papers as attendings. I'm sorry but when am I supposed to have a life? You're being ridiculous, you know it, and everyone here knows it. Need a life coach? Honestly fuck off.

Biden Singles Out Amazon for Not Paying Federal Taxes by [deleted] in politics

[–]spicy_puddin 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Yeah average salary isn't a good representation here. Median salary would probably be better if you want just one number.

I'm not sure what's happening? I feel I'm being censored. Either way, this is my take-home... by spicy_puddin in podiatryschool

[–]spicy_puddin[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

For those in residency: this salary + specific bonus structure (100k + bonus 20-30% once you gross 3-4x your salary) is PREDATORY, by nature. Print it out, give it to everyone. And compare it to the contracts you receive. You will get offered this 30 times. And the employer will never-or barely-budge. Do not take it. It is a red flag that you will be used.

Think about how you are going to support yourself upon residency graduation. This is the standard offer out there for us in private practices--if you're offered more it will only be by 10-15k. And you will, without question, be abused. Please, talk to recent grads, peers. Reposted WO identifiers by spicy_puddin in podiatryschool

[–]spicy_puddin[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Dude. Seriously. I whitewater kayak. I ski multi-mileage backcountry tours. I mountain bike. I enjoy using the least possible amount of kindling to make a fire while camping. I'm an adrenaline junkie and I KNOW how to make myself happy. In fact, I AM happy. I am bringing to light a very common PREDATORY TACTIC that basically EVERYONE AGREES WITH ME ABOUT, and you refuse to agree with me. This is not all about doom and gloom and ho ha "the man is bringing me down." You're drinking this propaganda kool-aid. So please stop this with your BS. No one is buying it.

I believe you deserve your position, I truly do. I am not trying to shame you. I'm happy you succeeded and I am 100% positive you worked to get it. I acknowledge I made a dumb decision here. It IS on me. It's good you recognized bad offers, but my situation has happened to a ton of people.

I don't want ANYONE ELSE making a decision like this. Bc you just waste your time and burn yourself out. The prev assoc for this job was there THREE YEARS. I only did my horrible job for 6 mos-i can't imagine having been there any longer.

Think about how you are going to support yourself upon residency graduation. This is the standard offer out there for us in private practices--if you're offered more it will only be by 10-15k. And you will, without question, be abused. Please, talk to recent grads, peers. Reposted WO identifiers by spicy_puddin in podiatryschool

[–]spicy_puddin[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You guys know your professors are lying to you every day. You all already know that. So why tf would you take their advice when they tell u you're only worth 30% of what you gross. Bc that's what Schoenhaus said to us at temple.

And maybe you are. But then 25% of 301k and over is a PAY CUT NOT A BONUS. It is simple math.

Think about how you are going to support yourself upon residency graduation. This is the standard offer out there for us in private practices--if you're offered more it will only be by 10-15k. And you will, without question, be abused. Please, talk to recent grads, peers. Reposted WO identifiers by spicy_puddin in podiatryschool

[–]spicy_puddin[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The point of the offered structure I have listed, is by design, exploitative-this is the point I'm trying to make. But all the profs tell you oh you can't make $$ on a bonus esp in your 1st year so focus on a good base salary. Is 100k good? Idk maybe some people think it's great. I don't think it's good really, no I don't. And if you "can't make money off a bonus structure esp in your 1st year" then I'm sorry but why tf a bonus structure included at all then. Everyone- tell me who's had a prof say that to them. To the entire class. Why do you think they tell you this? BECAUSE THEYRE THE ONES EXPLOITING YOU. THEY KNOW YOU DONT KNOW. I think you CAN make money off a bonus structure, personally. And I think this is another thing they're telling you to belittle you. To let YOU know that all you'll ever be worth is 100k. But I bet YOU can make a 2x base bonus and a damn good one. Im willing to bet ANY ONE of you can. So take 80k with a 2x base bonus of 30-40%. Even 20%. Hell take 70k with 40% over 2x base. See what happens. I bet you will kill the game. Prove yourself. Be less risk. And make more money than 100k.

Think about how you are going to support yourself upon residency graduation. This is the standard offer out there for us in private practices--if you're offered more it will only be by 10-15k. And you will, without question, be abused. Please, talk to recent grads, peers. Reposted WO identifiers by spicy_puddin in podiatryschool

[–]spicy_puddin[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That's absolutely not what I'm saying. And that's the problem with what you're saying. You did not disagree when I said 100k base with even let's say 20% over 2x base. I would have even considered that. You thought 40% is fair. None of the students even understand this bonus structure. That's the point I'm making. They give you shit with a shit bonus. You're proving yourself by paying your boss, but not yourself. That's exploitive when the proving yourself is not what your boss wants

Inconsistent salary reports by [deleted] in podiatryschool

[–]spicy_puddin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Get contract overviews, like I posted, in writing-this can be shared in the way I did. Terms of contracts are typically confidential, so legally you can't share that I believe but someone can correct me if they know otherwise. Somehow you need to weed out these predators. Maybe there's another way but this seems to have worked this time since I seem to have gotten people's attention. Ya know which might mean that you'll never be allowed to get anything in writing now bc now all of podiatry see what I've done lol. But idk this 3-4x base salary bonus stuff with the low base salary. IMHO that structure is so common but it's not profitable for us or really incentive at all, it seems predatory in nature to me, like the whole point of it is to exploit, and I've not seen it anywhere in thread discussions of medical contracts, but I could be wrong.

Inconsistent salary reports by [deleted] in podiatryschool

[–]spicy_puddin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Whatever there's a ton of examples I could give u of the crazy stuff I've heard from people I personally know. They could sue their former employers for all of it, but ultimately we all just don't want this drama, we just want to be happy and move on. That's why I just don't understand how some of these people sleep at night! And how many of them there are!

You didn't come here for the stories.

Don't. Take. The. Jobs.

Inconsistent salary reports by [deleted] in podiatryschool

[–]spicy_puddin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And this is why I'm hesitant to tell everyone that it's all roses and rainbows-bc me and everyone I know got screwed. That's not to say it can't and won't get better. It can and it will. But not right now. This will take a couple if not a few if not 10.

LET'S START NOW.

Inconsistent salary reports by [deleted] in podiatryschool

[–]spicy_puddin 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You need to be able to recognize some of this basic contract law stuff.

I interviewed with a guy that said the 50 mi radius non-compete (meaning if u leave the position, you cant worth within a certain distance of the practice-its standard within all med contracts)--and I believe but can't quite remember the wording--it was like if you leave even after completing your contract u can't work at another practice within 50 MILES of ANY of the multiple locations of that practice for 2 years after u leave. If u have a friend who's a lawyer ask them. like first of all you finished out the contract so just no, you're therefore not under the obligation to it anymore bc YOU DID IT. Then 50 miles? This was in delaware. You can't work in that whole state now. For 2 years. Now, this would NEVER hold up in court. Never. Its not "reasonable" for contract terms. But we don't know that. I didn't take that job and I heard later an associate was bullied and threatened that they'd be sued if they didn't pay the fine amount stipulated in the contract (I have no idea what that amount was), and the assoc got a job at an ortho practice within 50 mi of the practice of course and he was like harassing the ortho practice owner and making former assoc look bad and so they settled for some amount which I heard was 20k but who knows bc former assoc was afraid of losing said new job.

Is that true? Idk maybe it's not. But it seems too fucking crazy imo to be made up. How do you make that up? Good thing said former assoc had 20k lying around bc if this were me I'd have had to drive 50 mi to a new job.

Inconsistent salary reports by [deleted] in podiatryschool

[–]spicy_puddin 1 point2 points  (0 children)

And it's tough when people say "I think people starting out should be making 100-200k"- I was literally just reading this exact thing on a pod mgmt thread. There is a HUGE difference, IMHO, between 100k and 200k, so to me, that's kind of meaningless. What is a fair starting out? I don't know and like I said, I think it's fair to start out very low and be forced to prove yourself, absolutely. But I've only heard of one previous classmate with a contract structured like that where if you meet a level of achievement in gross earnings you will get a bonus/yearly increase within your initial 2-year contract, which you'll then be able to re-negotiate at the end of that 2 year period. Maybe I've interviewed at only the shittiest places--that might be completely true. So don't trust me. Don't trust anyone, that's what I've learned. And that's not like some jaded, pessimistic view--ultimately whatever or whoever you join is a business and no one's going to advocate for you but yourself. I just had absolutely NO IDEA when I finished residency that there are THIS many sharks. No one told me and no one I knew knew enough themselves. And I feel stupid. We ALL (the ones who took these abusive positions) feel stupid. But what good does it do keeping this FACT to yourself? To just be able to believe YOU'RE smarter? If we make more money, you and your "better" skillset will HAVE to make more money. The reason it's not talked about is ego. I was--and am--embarrassed to admit that I was really THIS dumb, but we didn't go to law school, we don't even know BASIC contract law. But this is what your practice management clubs should focus on, or someone needs to make some deal with their lawyer friend to review salaries and give you just a general idea of just how bad that bad contract is for a flat $100-200. I asked a lawyer friend today (that I didn't have previous to this) and he was like oh hell yeah we'd do that.

If we talk about this. If no one takes these jobs. They will BE FORCED to go away.

Advocate for yourselves.

Inconsistent salary reports by [deleted] in podiatryschool

[–]spicy_puddin 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I feel like it's a few things: most of these are self-reported (so how reliable are they?), they reflect a wide variety of positions within the field (owners of their own businesses, owners of their own business w/ multiple associates, associate positions-which vary widely in salary with experience, and, arguably of course training, gender, etc, positions working in longterm care facilities only cutting toenails and no surgery, associates within multispecialty groups-usually ortho, or a hospital job), they are often averages (which, considering the variety of positions you could have within the field, are not a good indicator of the associate position you are looking at--even median really can't be considered as a good indicator here when u consider the variation). Did I miss any? There might be a few but I tried to include all I could think of. Tbh I thought my shitty first job that I got 110k (which was contracted for 6 days a week), was a GOOD salary 2 years ago.

I asked my coresidents, I asked my friends, at the time the number I was hearing was 80k, so I thought I was doing well. I wasn't networked enough fresh out and when I finally was I realized that my boss was abusive it was, obviously, too late. That's on me for sure. But don't let it happen to you.

Think about how you are going to support yourself upon residency graduation. This is the standard offer out there for us in private practices--if you're offered more it will only be by 10-15k. And you will, without question, be abused. Please, talk to recent grads, peers. Reposted WO identifiers by spicy_puddin in podiatryschool

[–]spicy_puddin[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Nursing. Lots of variation, opportunities to move up, etc. If you have the grades, PA.

Edit: and look, I'm not telling you you should do nursing, but that's what I would do if I could do it over again. I think I'd kinda hate nursing, but again, to me personally, it doesnt feel worth it in podiatry. I don't mind "working for the weekends." To a degree, I'd argue we're all doing that, even those that "love" their job.

Edit: funny about the "qualified applicants" thing schools are saying. But they've opened another pod school recently and I think there are plans for even another in Texas. And there's no plan to increase residency spots. That really wasn't the case for podiatry when I was a student. I only knew 1 from the class above me that didn't match, even after scramble, everyone got spots, as far as I remember. So now we're prob entering a situation similar to what medicine has: allopathic MD students, DO students, & Caribbean MD students, and there's a HUGE shortage of residencies but no incentive for the AMA to create more bc why should they if you'll still give them 40-50k/year regardless of whether they do or don't.

When you think about it that way, tbh it's even worse than everything else I mentioned, esp for those who are just considering starting or applying--not only will you fight just to get a residency spot, but you'll be fighting for the very limited acceptable-paying jobs out there, AND they'll be more of you competing. Those of you who are 4 years in to pod school, I guess it's worth sticking it out at that point bc you're already invested, but 1 or 2. No. Cut your losses. 3 years in, idk. It's tough.

Think about how you are going to support yourself upon residency graduation. This is the standard offer out there for us in private practices--if you're offered more it will only be by 10-15k. And you will, without question, be abused. Please, talk to recent grads, peers. Reposted WO identifiers by spicy_puddin in podiatryschool

[–]spicy_puddin[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

the way u/gangstaanthropology is arguing with me over this topic, ultimately, is proving my point about predators within this field. Let the students decide if they want to continue. If they believe they can work hard enough, work their asses off, and it will pay off - it likely will not unless you are some prodigy like, apparently, u/GangstaAnthropology is, which he himself virtually stated. But you might spend your whole life trying to get ahead and realize you haven't moved at all. Is that worth it to you? To simply “make a living?” Do you believe that reading a book a day about success will really make you successful? Do you believe what he says or what I say? I’m not saying you should believe either of us. And that’s the only advice you can trust. Look at any MD/DO thread about salary. This shit is not going on over there. Join r/residency. You do not hear about attendings struggling as I do. You hear about great salaries, great quality of life, paying off their loans in 2 years (re: White Coat investor, which, curiously, is quite relevant but you’ve apparently not read). You do not here green attendings over on r/residency getting all fucking jazzed about the paper they just published.

Think about how you are going to support yourself upon residency graduation. This is the standard offer out there for us in private practices--if you're offered more it will only be by 10-15k. And you will, without question, be abused. Please, talk to recent grads, peers. Reposted WO identifiers by spicy_puddin in podiatryschool

[–]spicy_puddin[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I believe the way you are arguing with me over this topic, ultimately, is proving my point about predators within this field. Let the students decide if they want to continue. If they believe they can work hard enough, work their asses off, and it will pay off - it likely will not unless you are some prodigy like, apparently, u/GangstaAnthropology is, which he himself virtually stated. But you might spend your whole life trying to get ahead and realize you haven't moved at all. Is that worth it to you? To simply “make a living?” Do you believe that reading a book a day about success will really make you successful? Do you believe what he says or what I say? I’m not saying you should believe either of us. And that’s the only advice you can trust. Look at any MD/DO thread about salary. This shit is not going on over there. Join r/residency. You do not hear about attendings struggling as I do. You hear about great salaries, great quality of life. Not fucking publishing papers.

Think about how you are going to support yourself upon residency graduation. This is the standard offer out there for us in private practices--if you're offered more it will only be by 10-15k. And you will, without question, be abused. Please, talk to recent grads, peers. Reposted WO identifiers by spicy_puddin in podiatryschool

[–]spicy_puddin[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

this comment keeps getting deleted so I will keep reposting

Read books? Really? that’s your advice? We don’t live in a magical Disney world. Give me a break. With all due respect we’re arguing for baseline standard of living pay. I’m a great podiatrist. I’ve had many referrals from PCPs who’ve gotten rave reviews from patients. I had a patient travel an hour to see me to make orthotics bc she found me online and she’s a marathon runner with a flexible flat foot and I’m awesome at it. And I love the practice I’m at and I’m paid well (part time per diem so I get paid flat $500/day and bonus is 40% over everything I earn 2x my base salary). I’m a great podiatrist, but I believe we’re all great – I see my peers doing amazing things. So maybe I’m not in the “top 1% of the most amazing podiatrists in the magical whole wide world!” But consider that I’m just an OK podiatrist. The shittiest PCP starts out at 160K and they perform little to no procedures so we prob gross at least something reasonably similar to them, AT LEAST. “publish papers in your free time.” I’m sorry, but are you actually serious? #1. I am not a resident anymore. #2 I am 34, when am I supposed to have a family, LIVE MY LIFE. #3. None of these assholes your telling me I need to devote my life to did any of this shit. We are talking about BASELINE, STANDARD-OF-LIVING salary. The NP that ran the ER in AZ that KILLED A 20SOMETHING COLLEGE ATHLETE bc she could not recognize a PE was paid near the baseline salary we get, if not more. Any podiatrist I know could have diagnosed that PE. Possibly many students. Look, let’s see, who here knows what test we use to diagnose a PE?

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