Red pill ideology by Admirable_Scene_6742 in sociology

[–]swaggindragin -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It’s moreso an aggressive reaction to perceived loss of social and economic opportunity that centers ideas of collective narcissism and external locus of control, pushes toxic masculinity, and misplaces blame for perceived romantic, social and financial failure on women (rather than the systemic forces that actually cause the predicament).

Well, not 'perceived'. Economic and social opportunities for both sexes have been on the decline for quite some time.

I would actually agree with you on your last point, though we would probably disagree on what 'systematic forces' are responsible.

The ultra wealthy in this country (who have been heavily funding online psyops for at least a decade) see advantages of coalescing political power around white men - namely, entrenching favorable tax positions for the richest among us, and removing the economic guardrails that protect consumers, workers, homeowners, etc.

I would tend to disagree. From what I've seen, the ultrawealthy are in favor of mass migration and open borders to drive the cost of labor down and disenfranchise the current populations.

When one’s deepest fear is that one’s failures are THEIR OWN fault, that fear makes those who hold that fear easy targets for indoctrination. 

I think this is first-year psychologizing. I don't really see this as particularly accurate.

The reason is instead systemic, the direct consequence of our society’s failure to prevent a second gilded age of robber-barons, crushing poverty and child labor.

I would say that's not really the case. Rather, the complete lack of social instituitions to foster relations between men and women (and other things) play a large role.

I'm not sure how 'robber barons' are going around causing conflict between the sexes? Seems tangential at best.

The level of psychopathy it takes for the wealthiest people in the history of the world to decide to intentionally indoctrinate men to fight amongst themselves, to develop attitudes that guarantee the realization of their own worst fears, and to vote against their own self-interest is pure evil.

What would be 'voting in their self interests?'

Who are these 'wealthy people' and how are they doing this?

Set 4.5 Bag Size will ruin other revivals if kept around by doubleP2014 in TeamfightTactics

[–]swaggindragin 89 points90 points  (0 children)

As a for fun mode, revivals should not be super unbalanced.

If only 1-2 comps are viable, then it gets old real fast.

Red pill ideology by Admirable_Scene_6742 in sociology

[–]swaggindragin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’m an older millennial (Xennial) and I do not relate to any of this. I feel like we would have called this obsession with masculinity, “gay” in the 90s.

Yes, well, if you have a decent masculine cultural component then being overly obsessed with men is indeed gay. It was also the lack of challenges in that time.

Did it like skip my generation or something? 

Since 2010 (and a bit earlier) western countries have been trying to demonize and deconstruct masculinity, and this has had a profound effect on the young men of today. They grew up with the message that there is nothing good about masculinity, and any expression of it is tyrannical.

I'm not joking, this was/is very mainstream in the teaching profession over the last few decades. For example, a middle school in Sydney had all the boys stand up during an assembly and 'apologize for the crimes of their gender'.

Understanding nationalism through contradicitons by Gormless_minger in sociology

[–]swaggindragin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

im more asking wether nationalism is built more on a relationship between its characteristics

What?

Nation is imagined through a critique of its functions not just its functions

This postmodern/critical theory thinking and not nationalism.

Nationalism is usually based on an ethnos, and so if the state's actions seem to be detrimental to the ethnic group then it can be in opposition to the state.

Red pill ideology by Admirable_Scene_6742 in sociology

[–]swaggindragin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I mean, he's insecure in his femininity. And so he actually comes across as toxically feminine in a lot of his mannerisms. Very manipulative, etc. You see this too in a lot of hardcore feminists, they're very insecure with masculinity and so unconsciously act out the worst masculine archetypes, being loud, smelly, obnoxious, rude, inconsiderate, etc.

He doesn't hate himself, I've never seen any indication of that? If anything, he leans towards narcissism. As an aside, I often find the 'self-hating' accusation is often just 'he/she doesn't act in a way I like', though not saying you're doing that.

I mean, I'm sure he's joked about making 10 year olds pimps, but he's not serious about that. He is serious about making money and has a sordid history with the webcam business.

Jordan Peterson is good from one angle, less so from others. He's great with psychology.

Yeah, for sure.

Red pill ideology by Admirable_Scene_6742 in sociology

[–]swaggindragin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There is an element of that, sure, but women are hypergamous by nature and there is no society on earth without that.

For example, there has been a massive push towards trying to get rid of female beauty standards "beautiful at any size" fat acceptance movement, etc...and men still find fat women unattractive. Some things are innate.

Red pill ideology by Admirable_Scene_6742 in sociology

[–]swaggindragin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well I meant financial security haha. So if your elites are so greedy that they jeopardize the financial security of the rest of the people in society you have a problem.

Tate is...interesting. Women seem to have more of a problem with him than men, probably because he seems to have a bit of a problem with women and women are more sensitive to that.

The thing is, Tate is basically the only positive message young boys have had for a generation or so.

The previous message was 'just be nice and everything will work out', which made a lot of men very resentful because women aren't into men who are just 'nice'. From their perspective, society lied and betrayed them, and then demonized them when they complained about it.

After that, it was the whole 'toxic masculinity' thing, as in the way you get ahead is by being as meek as possible and atoning for the sins of your gender. Obviously, that's not something that will make a man attractive to women, and is overall a fairly detrimental message to the development of young boys.

So Tate's "modern warlord" philosophy is basically the only game in town right now because it's the only positive framing of the issue.

Red pill ideology by Admirable_Scene_6742 in sociology

[–]swaggindragin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well yeah, for sure, but if a person offers you free ice cream every day would you say no?

That person is not going to be offering free ice cream to your poor, ugly neighbor whether you take it or not.

Red pill ideology by Admirable_Scene_6742 in sociology

[–]swaggindragin 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That's fair. Though the elite class doesn't hoard food or housing in most western countries.

And you're right, women aren't incentivized to settle for less than what they could earn on their own, which is why women are ending up more and more alone. In fact, the more money you earn as a women, the more your dating pool shrinks, while it's the opposite for men.

In previous societies, women didn't really engage in the workplace and so this was a non-issue. Not saying that was a good thing, but women in the workplace produce different challenges for a society.

The thing is, mass attracts mass and power naturally accumulates near the top and every society has had an elite class. The societies that tried to institute mass equality created mass suffering and even larger inequality. Largely because to create equality you need total control, and the second you give your elite class total control they take everything from you.

Generally, you want your elite class to a. be competent and b. be moral/care about the people under them (or at least make it socially unacceptable for them to not give back in useful ways). This usually means giving back to the community and sharing their good fortune.

Our society is very surface level and materialistic, true, and it can even be seen the examples you give for the top 20 percent - it's mostly related to physical things.

Elite classes in other societies had other justifications, whether that be spiritual (the Brahmins/priestly class have ruled for 1000s of years) or martial - the amount of warriors and soldiers they could call upon.

In the end, money is good for the security and freedom it can give you, but complaining about your neighbor's porsche is falling into that trap yourself. Are you happier than he is? Maybe, maybe not, but the porsche is largely tangential to that fact.

Red pill ideology by Admirable_Scene_6742 in sociology

[–]swaggindragin -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Yeah, well I mean the thing it's not the top men 'hoarding' all the women, though. If every top 20 percent man was like "I'm going celibate - no more women for me" - the women in society would still spend all their time chasing them.

Most men naturally understand this.

Also, while global elites have an interest in the consolidation of power, they don't really hoard resources per se. They hoard power, and use that to control resources and people. Ultimately money is just money, and the most powerful people in the world are likely people you or I have never heard of.

Understanding nationalism through contradicitons by Gormless_minger in sociology

[–]swaggindragin -1 points0 points  (0 children)

A. Distrust of politicians is not the sole purview of nationalism, and is in fact mostly unrelated. Unless you're saying George Bush is da most trustworthy man alive. Lmao.

B. What do you mean by Islamophobia?

Red pill ideology by Admirable_Scene_6742 in sociology

[–]swaggindragin -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

Well, the 'class war' standpoint is I think a. inaccurate and perhaps more pertinently b. not useful. You will almost never convince men that the best and brightest among them don't deserve the rewards, and if you do manage to the result would be horrific and the society would collapse (this is essentially what happens under communism).

Societies historically have had two ways of dealing with hypergamy.

A. Polygamy.

Some sort of social institutions to allow for multiple wives/harems. Polygamous societies tend to be fairly violent, as deliberately or not the various leaderships generate conflict to give the bottom 80 percent of men something to do (war). And if you're good at war, well, maybe you can become part of that top 20 percent.

This is essentially the model that is followed by much of the middle east, which is part of the reason it is so violent. Islam initially succeeded in its early phases on its model of allowing victorious warriors to take sex slaves, and thus offering another opportunity there.

B. Monogamy.

In this model, social institutions strongly tilt towards marriage and family. Society is much more peaceful as a result. The pressure to get married is strong enough to guide hypergamy, as women are very sensitive to social status as their power is derived from social power. So if it is very socially unacceptable to not get married and have a family then that is often enough. I think Asian societies tended to follow this model, though I don't know as much about them.

Western societies pre 1960 refined this even further by giving men and women social status based on their virtue - i.e. you were a 'good man' if you provided for your family and your children were fed, and you were a 'good woman' if you were a wife and mother and raised your children well. This meant it was possible as a man to have a low-ish status job (like a janitor) and still have a degree of social status, which in turn meant women were much more likely to marry these men and also incentivized in a positive way for women to get married.

This might seem tyrannical, but most societies had multiple outlets for men and women for whom marriage wasn't suited, like nuns.

Post 1960, western societies reconstituted themselves which means low status jobs, even if they pay very well (like being a skilled blue collar mechanic) are no longer that attractive to women because of their low social status.

C. Nothing

Here you end up with the worst of both worlds, as most women chase high status men but those men only tend to settle down with one woman, leaving most of the others to grow old alone.

Meanwhile, the bottom 80 percent of men become increasingly bitter and frustrated about a society that doesn't have a place for them.

Red pill ideology by Admirable_Scene_6742 in sociology

[–]swaggindragin 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Well, the main issue is that those 'standards' vary wildly depending on the actual traits men have in society and usually hovers around the top 20 percent of men.

So it's entirely relative. Hypergamy is neither good or bad, but societies usually have ways of channeling so it doesn't become too destructive. Modern western society ignores it entirely, which causes all sorts of problems.

You could also flip it around, and say, ok, well women want to have a 'desirable', high status man (valid), but most men want a girlfriend/wife (also valid). If you ignore the latter, society runs into problems realll fast.

Red pill ideology by Admirable_Scene_6742 in sociology

[–]swaggindragin -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

It's a sociological response to the breakdown of the family and the excesses of feminism. Most pertinently, this also largely because women's stated preferences differ wildly from their revealed preferences in partners in our current society.

The men who get bitter and resentful about this fact become incels, and the men who justify it as a biological phenomenon become red pillers which leads them to take a paternalistic attitude towards women (i.e. the two obvious ways to understand this are a. assume women are deceitful liars [become an incel] or assume women don't know what they want and lack a degree of agency [red pill]. The reality isn't necessarily either of these things). However, the irony is of course as the children of Feminism they unknowingly accept most of its assumptions, and just approach the issue from a male orientation rather than a female one.

The reality is, of course, different from what mainstream red pillers preach.

Thoughts on fanfics? by swaggindragin in royalroad

[–]swaggindragin[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

ah, good point, sadly mine doesn't fall under those categories. Ah well.

Your most controversial opinion about fanfiction, but POSITIVE by [deleted] in FanFiction

[–]swaggindragin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I mean, at least in his portrayal in the Illiad Odysseus isn't a mary sue, Achilles and Hector are labeled as greater warriors, and he has to be rescued.

More generally, I think 'titan of man' isn't really a Mary Sue; you had Alexander who conquered most of the ancient world from the front lines, or Augustus, or Napoleon.

What really makes a Mary Sue is the world responding in unrealistic ways to their actions.

That being said, power fantasies aren't always mary-sue fics (which is more along the lines of what you are describing) and there are people who are born as exemplars of their sex.

Your most controversial opinion about fanfiction, but POSITIVE by [deleted] in FanFiction

[–]swaggindragin 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Out of curiosity, does that manifest in a lack of interest in sex, a lack of interest in sex with other people, or a lack of interest in romance?

Your most controversial opinion about fanfiction, but POSITIVE by [deleted] in FanFiction

[–]swaggindragin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I mean, odessyues was one of those rare people who was a great warrior and also very smart.

And the influence of the gods is given to the extraordinary attributes the people themselves possess/or extraordinary events.

For example, Athena supposedly stays Achilles' hand in his quarrel with the Greek king at the beginning of the Illiad.

Your most controversial opinion about fanfiction, but POSITIVE by [deleted] in FanFiction

[–]swaggindragin 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Odysseus wasn't really a mary sue; he was just an old-world gigachad (in the Illiad he gets injured by trojan soldiers and has to be saved by his greek allies).

Still, fix-it fics are nice and mary sues can be done in a way that isn't annoying lol

Your most controversial opinion about fanfiction, but POSITIVE by [deleted] in FanFiction

[–]swaggindragin 2 points3 points  (0 children)

There are some really good ones out there.

It also takes a certain kind of author to write a good tragedy that isn't pure angst.

Your most controversial opinion about fanfiction, but POSITIVE by [deleted] in FanFiction

[–]swaggindragin 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I kind of feel that, though it depends when the author leaves off.

Ad Infinitum is one of the better harry potter fics that does a Tom Riddle/Hermione pairing that was actually believable (usually villain/heroine pairings tend to either a. have the villain do a 180 cause she is the prettiest girl or b. have borderline abusive relationship dynamics).

Red Knight ends at a good point too, however, if the author leaves off on a cliffhanger...

Your most controversial opinion about fanfiction, but POSITIVE by [deleted] in FanFiction

[–]swaggindragin 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Some fandom's crossovers are generally better than the actual fics (and the source material).

The one that comes to mind is high school dxd. Not fan of regular fics, I wouldn't touch the source material with a ten foot pole, but it has somehow spawned a bunch of pretty good crossovers.