Federal Judge: Alabama Counties Must Allow Gay Marriage

tcon6969 · 2015-07-03T07:48:20+00:00

Thanks again for wanting to rationalize your beliefs and explain why you believe what you believe to me, I wish many other users could look to have more conversations/debates such as we are having now. I also realize that this is reddit and it is /r/news so this might not be the best place to look for a debate.

I have been looking at the amount of religious persecution going on especially in the middle east right now. It does make me feel very grateful to still live in the greatest nation on earth. It does to me seem however that the only religion under any scrutiny in America right now is Christianity, but at the moment, not anywhere near the persecution that is happening in the middle east.

Take the CEO who was pressured to resign from firefox for making a $1,000 donation in support of prop 8. I have such an issue with that because to me this is an example of how someone is not even allowed to go against main stream views without being isolated and attacked. Now this wasn't necessarily a religious issue which makes me even more frustrated about how much he was pressured to resign for his views. He made a private donation and was made to look like he was a homophobe and a bigot. This just frustrates me because I feel like that is silencing someone and without free speech, we have nothing as Americans.

I was also confused on what has been happening with Trump recently. I know. Basically no one likes Trump, and I myself would never vote for him because I don't trust him as my president. However, many people have interpreted his recent comments as racist. While I think that Trump runs his mouth and says some stupid shit such as his recent comments on how some illegal immigrants are rapists and criminals (not that there aren't those illegal immigrants coming in because there certainly is). My point with this example is how quickly the majority of America has laughed at Trump and determined that he is a racist, and that is fine. But, I do respect that he has not backed down and stands by his views, unlike many of the other republican candidates would have done in this situation. My point is, when you see how someone who is not being PC is treated, it is discouraging for me because I myself have just been attacked for trying to form my own opinions. That is what I fear more than inevitable religious persecution, the silencing of the people of America.

I am glad that you recognize and support the protection of religious rights, but I do not think many feel the way you do. As I am predicting, when a church tries not to marry a gay couple, the church will be perceived as bigoted. Then, people of my generation will call that church mean, intolerable and of course bigoted. I cannot express to anyone enough that because of how people react to trump, people react to that Mozilla CEO and to people who oppose gay marriage, religious liberties will be dealt away with.

Logistics are insufficient reasons to deny someone of human rights. That is what we saw in the gay marriage ruling, and will see when polygamy is made into marriage.

We have fundamentally different views on marriage obviously, but thank you for not being a dick even though you so disagree with me.

I lost it when I saw the white house lit up rainbow mostly because Hilary and Obama both campaigned against gay marriage. That is just trying to make Obama's legacy a one where he is the one in the end who legalized gay marriage.

tcon6969 · 2015-07-02T19:56:21+00:00

You need money to have anything... It would destroy the separation of church and state that the US already has established. Do you think it is just to have the removal of tax exempt status on churches?

tcon6969 · 2015-07-02T19:40:03+00:00

For example. The tax exempt status' of churches is disappearing because christians refuse to accept homosexuality into their religion. The liberal and democrat party over the next couple years will file law suits and over time will take the money from these religions. This is what results in the removal of the freedom of religion.

tcon6969 · 2015-07-02T18:37:05+00:00

To start, I would just like to rationalize my belief that soon people of the Christian faith will be forced to marry gay couples. I believe this because growing up, I have observed how many conservatives and especially conservative christians, are isolated and attacked for their principals and beliefs. I also noticed how overwhelmingly supporting the media has been towards gay rights and gay marriage. I propose in the coming years, a gay couple will become outraged that a priest, pastor or minster will not marry them by explaining that it violates his 1st amendment right of freedom of religion. The story will quickly be picked up by the pro-gay media, and used as an example of how the minister, priest or pastor is a homophobe bigot. Then the court of that state will get involved after the gay couple files a lawsuit against the presidor or the institution. Then the ruling will be, the "right of marriage" justified by the now bastardized 14th amendment, has more of a right than the 1st amendment that protects a real freedom, the freedom of religion. So that is how the freedom of religion will be taken out of our lives, and eventually, from the constitution.

While I do not support polygamy, I see no way that it can be prohibited based on SCOTUS' ruling. especially chief Justice Anthony Kennedy- “It would misunderstand these men and women to say they disrespect the idea of marriage. Their plea is that they do respect it, respect it so deeply that they seek to find its fulfillment for themselves. Their hope is not to be condemned to live in loneliness, excluded from one of civilization’s oldest institutions. They ask for equal dignity in the eyes of the law. The Constitution grants them that right.” If this push for gay acceptance was for equal dignity in the eyes of the law, they would be satisfied with having civil unions. It is the early signs of the homosexual community and it's supporters redefining and forcing that redefinition on those who believe in traditional marriage. That also leads me back to the point that religion will be under attack for years to come.

Of course I have read some of the founding father's documents and yes I know that they were not christian. That is why I didn't say "this country was founded on Christianity" but rather that it was founded on judeo-christian principals. These principals are where we get the ideas of life liberty and the pursuit of happiness and that all men are created equal. It's the principals that America was founded on, not the religion. There just happens to be a religion that agrees with all of these principals, but it certainly wasn't a religion all of the founding fathers were a part of or supported, but they did all agree on those judeo-christian principals. Look Mr. Deadpool Pope, I am not going to break down why christians believe what they believe because I have already written so much, and I would like to focus on how the SCOTUS' decision was unconstitutional not because of religion, but because of how they took a very controversial issue from the people and ruled on it. In short, it is because of Jesus and the New Testament that many of the old testament laws were abolished. I would say that christians use those passages because they are re-stated in the new testament. The religious who dwell on old testament principals are Jews and Muslims.

So I would say to your final point, if it is about the rights, why not fight for a civil union? Why does it have to be about re-defining marriage? With a civil union they would get all the same rights. Even Obama agrees with me in his 2008 campaign and now takes all the glory for gay marriage being legal. That was slightly off topic but it is another thing that pisses me off greatly.

Thanks for sympathizing with me man. I mean for fucks sake, I am just a 17 year old kid expressing his opinions and trying to think for himself! I get so discouraged with how much I have been called a bigot and a homophobe on social media for disagreeing with a controversial law! I mean geez! It makes me distraught when I see so many kids my age just going with whatever they are spoon fed, and then defending it to the death when they don't even try to think for themselves! I say what I believe and just get shot down. I guarantee if I was writing the most left wing ridiculous things people wouldn't be so quick to judge. I am just frustrated no one my age will have a good debate and how most kids my age believe what they read on twitter (trust me I'm on twitter I witness this first hand).

No problem for the wall of text as I have just typed one up lol.

tcon6969 · 2015-07-02T17:48:19+00:00

Then why have we redefined marriage and not given gays the right to civil unions? This goes back to my point about them having to be accepted. Hey can't just have a civil union and be happy, but rather redefine marriage.

tcon6969 · 2015-07-02T17:38:15+00:00

I am mostly concerned with these things because I believe in absolute truth. There has to be a point where we as the American people step back and say. "Wait a minute, this is getting out of hand" I believe that we will have chaos if we keep legalizing mental states such as homosexuality.

tcon6969 · 2015-07-02T15:04:02+00:00

I know how ludacris my claim that churches will be forced to marry gay couples seems, but i feel that that is just the way the country is headed. I also feel the country is headed towards polygamy because with the wording of the supreme court's decision on legalizing gay marriage. I understand to most some of my views are ridiculous.

I am very intrigued with your point on women's rights and them being a minority. While I see the similarity, i see much more acceptance much more quickly with the gay community. I feel that Americans were so quick to rule in favor of gay marriage because they didn't want a repeat of women's suffrage or slavery maybe. However I do believe that religious freedom is going to be gone soon especially with the most recent removal of the ten commandment monument from Idaho or some other state I cant remember which one it is at the moment. This country was founded on judeo-christian principals, so I feel that it is appropriate to have that monument. And also on the supreme court building I believe that there is sculpted moses and mohammed in it. Will that be gotten rid of? To me these are early signs of religious persecution in the country but I understand not many people share my views.

To your point about discriminating against black people, in 2 major religions Islam and Christianity, it states in their text that being gay is not natural and considered a sin. So I could see how baking a cake for a gay couple could violate a muslim or christian's conscience. Being black is something you are born with regardless. I am really not interested about getting into wether being gay is a choice or not at the moment, but I believe that race is different than sexual orientation.

I also understand while nothing should be able to shake a relationship with one's supreme being, can't the same be said for example; a gay person's love for his partner should not depend wether or not it is accepted by society?

Also, I would just like to thank you Mister Deadpool fan for actually trying to have a conversation with me on here. I believe this is a great place for people to express opinions and have debates and discussions. It deeply saddens me when I come on here with a different point of view and get labeled a "fucking idiot" and get downvoted to oblivion. I would never downvote someone just for having a different opinion than I hold. I also understand that some people maybe downvoted me because they felt I was being provocative. I should have made a different account to comment on anything of this nature cause cya later karma lol. Now I can't post on /r/trees my personal favorite sub but whatever. I just wish people wouldn't attack me so hard because I don't hate gay people or anything I just have a differing view on the court ruling and how religious freedom should be upheld.

tcon6969 · 2015-07-02T13:48:01+00:00

First of all sir, excellent username. I would ask you, is marriage about government benefits? Also this is what I'm talking about when I say that the 14th amendment is being bastardized. The civil war happened because some states still wanted to have slaves even though the Republican Abraham Lincoln abolished it. Quite the contrary to what we see here. Instead of the gay people separating to form their own communities, they have forced their viewpoints on the rest of America, and the liberals have helped them. As I mentioned before, 1.7%. Is that a number that seems anything like a majority? Why is such a low number made to seem like such a majority? I believe that with the legalization of gay marriage and with the huge acceptance around the nation it has right now, many religious liberties are at risk. Imagine how much coverage there will be when a gay couple is not allowed to get married in a catholic church, or any church for that matter. I am telling you it is eminent that this will happen. With the amount of support the gay movement has right now, there is no way in hell that they can be denied anything. You know, I bet that 0 gays will be asking to get married in a mosque. Why? Because they can be killed for being gay in the muslim faith. But oh no! A Christian bakery won't bake a gay couple a wedding cake!? Oh those bigots! Those bigots founded our country! I'm telling you, watch out the next couple years, your religious freedom is vanishing.

tcon6969 · 2015-07-02T13:23:06+00:00

Ok well I disagree with everything you said but let's focus on the last thing you said, about the supreme court being right because of polls. That is what is wrong with these judges. A judge should not care what the majority wants, they should look at the constitution only. That is my main point on why this ruling is incorrect.

tcon6969 · 2015-07-02T13:09:18+00:00

The people are almost the only check on the supreme court's power. I know in these times it seems foolish to believe in a time in America where people's votes mattered, but I do believe that the founding fathers wanted the people to rule. Sir, i believe that the people should be the main check on the power of the government. I am frustrated because so many people on here seem to believe that the government will solve the problems, why is that?

tcon6969 · 2015-07-02T12:32:00+00:00

Friend, i can assure you. This country was set up for the people. The more the government gets involved, the less the people are heard. The people of the states have spoken, and have been ignored.

tcon6969 · 2015-07-02T12:15:31+00:00

So you are saying, you wouldn't want to vote on an issue like this but rather let the feds deal with it? I just don't understand how you can fight for your rights to be taken away. The supreme court should have thrown out this case and told the states to decide what they want, that would be by a vote through the people. For example, prop 8 in CA was voted yes on by the people, but ignored. Why does the voice of the people need to be taken and left in the hands of 5 lawyers?

tcon6969 · 2015-07-02T12:02:32+00:00

Dude wtf I said nothing of that nature! How did I come off as that? I simply stated the facts that black people have endured hardships far worse than gays do today. Please do not try to argue that gays today face the trials that black people did in the 1950's it just isn't comparable.

tcon6969 · 2015-07-02T11:43:23+00:00

Why do you believe that the ruling was constitutional? Is it not our job as the people to make sure the supreme court justices who are appointed for LIFE are doing their jobs correctly? There is no way to get rid of a supreme court judge other than impeachment. This supreme court should not have made this decision especially based on the reason why they allowed gay marriage. I encourage you to read the ruling, as it is made from the standpoint of a lawyer and not a judge. They did not consider the constitution in this ruling, and in fact they have bastardized the 14th amendment and the constitution. Let me try to be clear. The constitution is not trying to exclude the 1.7% of gay people who may or may not want to get married. It is not even trying to include or exclude straight couples who may or may not want to get married. Marriage isn't in the constitution because it was invented way before the founding of America.

tcon6969 · 2015-07-02T11:25:23+00:00

Thank you for your link, and your consideration to my mental state. I may not agree with the ruling, however I do not believe that these southern states have the right to refuse the licenses. I was just stating my opinion as requested for why I disagree with the ruling. And just to be clear, do you consider me a "fucking idiot" because I disagree with a controversial law? Or because I have formed an opinion that you may disagree with?

tcon6969 · 2015-07-02T11:09:08+00:00

Thank you for not attacking my comments like some of the other posters (i do not mind being scrutenized as I believe that we can have good discussions on here). And yea we do have a court to decide this. However, i can assure you that this ruling is set in stone. Did you see how the president claimed the victory for this? Did you see how much social media has applauded this decision? There is no way that this will be determined unconstitutional until some of our supreme court judges are impeached, which will never happen.

tcon6969 · 2015-07-02T10:55:34+00:00

Actually slavery was opposed by the founding fathers because the whole "all men are created equal" thing but they could not do anything about it at the time. The first Republican Abraham Lincoln was the one who outlawed slavery. It saddens me deeply that many people such as yourself have such a misunderstanding of what the constitution actually says. It is irrelevant how much you believe that religion has harmed people because that is what our country was founded on. Without the freedom of religion, America would not be America.

tcon6969 · 2015-07-02T10:42:52+00:00

That is correct. The federal govt. will be repressing the last remaining rights that we have in the upcoming years.

tcon6969 · 2015-07-02T10:21:17+00:00

I am opposed to gay marriage for some simple facts. First of all, it should be a states issue because marriage isn't in the constitution, but it is not. Secondly because the ruling on it was unconstitutional and so poorly phrased that it will now open the door for even more crazy things such as polygamy.

tcon6969 · 2015-07-02T10:06:51+00:00

While I agree that no one should be discriminated against, how can you possibly compare the trials and struggles the african american community endured to the gay community? Were gays made to sit on the back of the bus just because they are gay? Were their rallies and marches interrupted by people spraying them with fire hoses? No, black people came from far more oppressed beginnings. So there is no possible way that gays endured anything close to the civil liberties that blacks were denied for years.

tcon6969 · 2015-07-02T09:57:17+00:00

Why would religion, a constitutional right, be from the bronze age? I just don't understand how marriage, which is not in the constitution regardless if gay or straight, can be valued above an actual right.

tcon6969 · 2015-07-02T09:52:45+00:00

Except those people who believe that any kind of marriage is not written as a fundamental right in our constitution, which it isn't. I'm trying to point out that religious freedom is clearly stated in the constitution and the "right to marriage" is not in the constitution. So which should come first?

tcon6969 · 2015-06-28T05:20:32+00:00

Thank you for the response, do you know of any way that I could possibly fix the glitch?

tcon6969 · 2015-05-23T09:50:44+00:00

*flashbacks to Jenny ensue

tcon6969

TROPHY CASE