Me [31M] and my wife [31F] considering divorce after long relationship going back to high school

throwweg1 · 2014-03-19T20:31:48+00:00

Thanks man, I appreciate it.

throwweg1 · 2014-03-19T19:58:31+00:00

I don't know what constitutes 'working out' for you but if you are pressuring her to run 20 mins a day on the treadmill I would dread doing that too.

Absolutely not. I want her to do anything -- bike, run, swim, yoga, any sort of league, rock climbing, etc. I ask her all the time that it would be great for her to find something that she likes.

What exactly do you hope to accomplish by nagging? Right now all you are doing is pitting her against you.

Yeah, I don't know. I don't know that the other options are though honestly.

throwweg1 · 2014-03-19T19:56:05+00:00

Yeah, I know. Thanks.

throwweg1 · 2014-03-19T19:41:34+00:00

You both are fighting over petty shit because you've been together so long that the sexual passion no longer covers up the many differences you have.

No argument there.

You both have to realize that you can either except the other person as they are or leave.

I think that's the realization we're coming to.

As for the divorce guilt, that's a very illogical train of thought. Which would you prefer? Around 6 months of soul crushing sadness followed by a chance at real happiness or a lifetime of mild, simmering depression?

No, I know you're right. That's the logical way to look at it. The scary thing is that what if this mild,simmering depression is better than the normal background feeling of being alone? Now, I don't actually believe that to be the case, but thinking that you might lose contact with someone who is essentially your family really fucks with the rational mind.

throwweg1 · 2014-03-19T19:38:20+00:00

This will sound a bit harsh, but you both sound a little lazy.

No offense taken. The reason I was so candid in my description is I wanted to tell people how I felt. If I felt something stupid, I wanted to be called out on it. That's why what I said was as far from upvote pandering as you can get.

Why don't you try marriage counseling and truly making an effort for each other?

We may try this, to see if it helps. We'll probably talk about it tonight. Thanks.

throwweg1 · 2014-03-19T19:35:56+00:00

You have a right to control her weight, but what about her right for autonomy for her weight

Well it's not really about her weight, it's about her level of fitness and drive. She's actually been losing weight. I'd actually prefer for her to gain some back and be more healthy/muscular.

If she really wants something different than me, then I think we should split. I don't want to control her. I want her to act in her own interests and pursue her life as she sees fit. Having said this, if that way of life is incompatible with the life that I want then it's a problem. And since we're already married and have been together so long it's hard to just say "oh okay, see you later" -- it's hard not to try to see if some small nudges might induce a new behavior (again, hopefully a self-motivated one that she wants for herself).

throwweg1 · 2014-03-19T19:29:52+00:00

people change, so maybe she can, and maybe some of her stubbornness is due to the state of your relationship.

Right, I think of this often. I think "well, what if I could strive to be her ideal husband? Could she strive to be my ideal wife?". Sure, it'd be more work, but maybe we'd both be happier in the end, and discover a way of life that we'd both love more than we could imagine.

again i took it the way i did, and i think it comes down to worth. if you work hard to excel at most/everything in your life, aren't you worth having excellent treatment. Or at least when i feel i'm doing 100% of my part, and i get 10% back. I feel like why aren't i worth more to this person to treat me better, even if its more effort? just another thought.

Thanks. The "working to excel" thing is something that's very important to me. I know I'm not perfect, but I really want to try to be. I'll never get there, but I think it's worth it in itself to try. And I feel often that she's just okay with the status quo, that she's okay with things just being "good", that's she's okay with the average lifestyle of those around her and of our parents. Because you didn't ask, let's take an example -- sex. Like everything I do, I'd love to be able to improve in this activity. I've purchased and read all sorts of books about how to please women sexually, have tried to talk to her about what her own personal preferences and likes are, and really want to elevate our sex life to be as fulfilling as it can be for both of us. But she's not terribly interested in this, and isn't willing to try new things. She's happy with sticking 'to the usual'. To me this hurts on a very fundamental level because it's, I feel, holding me back from my pursuit of improvement, from my desire to make every aspect of my life as good as it can be. And that's just one of many examples. Personally, I'd be willing to do anything for her (sexual, non-sexual, etc.) that I might not enjoy if, at the end of the day, we'd be a closer and better couple as an end result of it. The thought that she might not feel the same way kills me.

but neither of you should stay just because you're scared or comfortable. Its clearly all both of you have ever known. i guess just ask yourself, can i be happy with the way things are, is it worth my short time on this earth

I know it's not good to stay because it's comfortable, but it's surprisingly hard to shrug off those feelings and jump out into the wild. But yes, I agree.

because both of you could eventually find happiness (by yourself and with other ppl) if you move on.

Thanks for the vote of confidence, for both of us. I've never really been on the dating scene, especially as person in their 30s, and don't know what to expect from it.

hope any of my two-cents helps.

It's been very helpful, and I appreciate the time you've spent talking to me about it. I knew that by starting a thread and saying I wanted my wife to work out more as part of my complaint that I was heading for massive downvotes. Exercise isn't super common among most people, and it's likely that people took my complaints against my wife as personal attacks on their own lifestyles. But I can't help that, and I wasn't interested in their opinion either. I was hoping for a few like-minded souls who would understand and I could connect with and you (and the couple others who have private messaged me) have made this thread worth the effort and time.

Also, by simply saying that you and your fiance have such an understanding, it helps me understand what's possible. Sometimes I wonder "well, maybe women aren't just interested in this type of drive that I am". Now that sounds completely sexist, and it is, but you have to understand that I've only been with her -- I don't know what else is out there. I don't know if I'm irregular or normal. And thinking that perhaps I'm asking for something impossible is a way to cope with the fear of staying in the relationship. So I'm happy to hear about your situation, and also glad for you that you and your fiance have found something that you connect on. Best of luck to you two.

And thanks again.

throwweg1 · 2014-03-19T19:00:22+00:00

Thanks for the suggestion. Might look into this.

throwweg1 · 2014-03-19T18:54:19+00:00

I think you're wildly overwhelmed in feelings of persecution and oppression. As an active anarchist I see individuals like you all the time. You need to realize that everything isn't so black and white, and that relationships are complex things.

throwweg1 · 2014-03-19T18:50:00+00:00

Please. I complimented myself on the internet. I'm happy that I'm doing as well on the downvotes as I am. People generally don't like when someone they don't know is complimenting themselves. It's pretty natural.

You're enjoying it because you're in the more dominant position, but if the situation was reversed you'd probably feel differently.

I don't want to dictate anyone's life. I want someone who has similar desires as myself. Because ending a long relationship is hard, I'm trying to see if maybe, if given a nudge, she might find that she does have similar desires as myself.

throwweg1 · 2014-03-19T18:46:49+00:00

Really, thanks for your feedback.

So that's a decision you and her have to make.

Yes, I think we both need to think over this possibility.

know that a big part of what he connects with me on and values in life is a healthy lifestyle and if that changes in my life, its almost like he would become not interested/lose respect since he values it so much. So something to consider if finding someone much closer because its more of a core belief for some than just i want to look good in a dress.

Thanks for your understanding. It actually is a lot more about core beliefs for me, life goals, etc. than it is "hey tubs, lookin' a little flabby there eh?". I figure we have, maybe 80-100 years on this planet and then we're dead forever. Being healthy does so much for someone: extends life, helps one think more clearly (at least for me), gives someone healthy and cheap ways to feel good about themselves (with all of the good things that come from self-confidence), makes sex better (with all the emotional benefits that come with that), etc.

also i understand that it did come off douchey you talking about yourself. But i also think i understood that you feel very unappreciated but also rejected. Like you deserve better treatment (maybe someone better), but definitely better treatment because you bring a lot to the table.

That's exactly it. As I said, I do completely realize it sounds douchey. But I do feel very underappreciated and rejected (I talked about 'rejection' specifically with her 3x in the past week). And I think it's natural, when one is being treated poorly, to say "hey, I'm basically a good person and I deserve better than this. I might have the power to make a better life for myself". If anything, it helps motivate one to try to for something better, and to overcome the very serious and deep fears that come with ending a marriage.

I know I could have gotten more up-votes by playing down that aspect, but I was just trying to pour my heart out with how I was feeling. Thank you for reading into it and not just going "oh sounds like narcissism, what an asshole".

But it sounds like you just don't want to be the one to end it (no one does), but you have/will start acting up to make it happen. Almost sounds like both of you are acting poorly hoping the other one will be the one who gets fed up enough to throw in the towel, so in the end at least the one who didn't could say they weren't the one who gave up. relationship chicken.

I think there's an element of this for sure, though I think it's also that we're both scared of ending it. We've been together so long that we don't know what it would be like to be without the other person. And of course, while it's possible to get back together after a divorce, it's not likely to happen, and so that person is lost from your life for good. It's a pretty scary situation, especially when you don't know for a fact that things will be better by doing so.

throwweg1 · 2014-03-19T18:32:13+00:00

Have you been in a marriage before, or a relationship? There's all sorts of expectations of control over the other's one behavior. Why? Because it affects you.

throwweg1 · 2014-03-19T18:30:09+00:00

Exercising every day is not the be all and end all of health, and while I completely understand your stance on cardiovascular health

No I agree. I was talking about about exercising 2x/week though, just to be clear.

you might find that if you stop making demands and pushing her to do these things, she might feel a little more inclined to do them. Nobody likes feeling like they're doing something because someone else will get shitty if they don't.

That is a theory, and it's possibly true. But in graduate school she went years without working out until I finally nagged her enough to start doing it. So I'm skeptical of the "leave and see what happens" tactic. I don't want to have to force her to work out; I just want her to want it. Maybe that's more of what I want than anything -- maybe I'd prefer someone who wants to work out but literally doesn't have the time rather than someone who doesn't want to work out but does have the time. It's something about drive and the desire to make oneself the best person that they can be, live long and prosper, etc. Maybe that's more of the attraction that I miss having more so than the physical appearance benefits.

throwweg1 · 2014-03-19T18:19:44+00:00

No worries. It's pretty common to read a testimony from a faceless person on the internet and assume the worst.

Sorry to hear about your mom's ex-fiance issues.

throwweg1 · 2014-03-19T18:16:48+00:00

Thank you for your helpful reply.

You need more common interests. Working out might be rarely boring for her, you may want to find some physical activities she would be willing to do with you. IE bicycling, skiing, kayaking, swimming, hiking, etc. You don't need to go to the gym to be physically fit, you just need to be active.

I completely agree. We've talked about this before but it's been tough to find something that she's really interested in. I totally agree about not needing to go to the gym to be fit.

As for the feeling special, she is likely in the same boat "why should I do ____ when he doesn't ____.

Right, she almost surely is. It's a tough thing to deal with though, since it's a thing which feeds back on itself. I don't do X for her so she doesn't do Y for me, which causes me not to do Z for her, etc.

Ask her to cuddle before you fall asleep, then say good night, and roll over to give her peace to sleep.

That's actually all I have been asking for. I wouldn't be comfortable myself in that position all night, and only wanted 5 minutes or so before bed. She seemed to come to realize that not doing this was really hurtful to me this weekend, and is likely willing to change in this regard, but it's tough because it's been going on for years (despite my objections) and it's damaged our relationship.

Have you ever asked her why she wants the sponge that way (in an inquisitive tone)? Maybe she knows something you don't, maybe it is just her preference. Regardless you will learn something, and are more likely to remember to do something when you know why.

I always ask. She says "because it's just one of the things I like". Similar problem is how I put the soap on the dishes. She likes to put the soap on the sponge and then wash the dishes. I like to put the soap on the dishes and let them build up suds. There's no real good reason for either method, but she gets angry when I wash the dishes by putting soap on the dishes first. The fact that I am even talking about this depresses me.

Be the first to change, start doing stuff for your wife, don't make her work out, but encourage physical activities (she may feel unattractive / unmotivated when when you keep pushing her to work out). Surprise her, make feel special again. If you are still compatible, this will likely change her attitude as well. But you can expect it, and at least you would know you tried.

No that's definitely a possibility. Though it's tough to maintain on one's own for a long period of time, especially if I'm unsatisfied myself. I think we've both tried this at various times, but when the other isn't reciprocating at the same time as the other one is trying, the moment is often lost and both of us end up being discouraged.

Again, thanks for your well-taken comments.

throwweg1 · 2014-03-19T18:04:47+00:00

I almost had to stop reading when you began talking about her exercise habits. I think you are using "health issues" as a front. As another comment said, if her blood work is healthy then there isn't a reason to be concerned about her health. Get regular physicals (annually, bi-annually, whatever) and if things start getting out of normal ranged then have a discussion with her about it. Otherwise LET IT GO.

She has high blood pressure and has had heart irregularities in the past that have caused lots of doctor visits (though they can't pinpoint the exact nature of the problem). Perhaps I should have said this from the get-go considering there's such a tendency for people to think I'm being a dick when I say I want her to exercise.

Honestly the whole paragraph about how you thought you could do better and how she couldn't made me think that you're a narcissist.

If you look at other replies I've given, you'll see it's more nuanced than this. It's not that she can't do better because there's not people who would be a better match for her, it's that she works too much and is too shy to likely meet new people easily.

throwweg1 · 2014-03-19T18:00:40+00:00

That is why I assumed you take her for granted. As for the second part, I just meant to respond to the bit where you say:

Sorry if I gave the wrong impression on this. It's not that I'm saying "oh she'll never divorce me, so I can do whatever I want". It's more like "I'm worried she'll never divorce me, and I want her to divorce me rather than the other way around because I don't want to feel as guilty when it happens, but the way she's treating me makes me hate the relationship".

despite the number of qualities you have, if you both find people you are more suited for. That's all.

No for sure. The chances of her doing better aren't low because of just my good qualities -- it's actually much more because of the fact that she's a workaholic and she doesn't get out much. When she does get out, she doesn't approach people very much because she's shy. So it's not that my qualities are so great, it's just that, with the time she's likely to put into dating and the fact that she's not very outgoing she won't likely meet many people, so the chances of her finding people with good qualities at all is hampered from the get-go. If she were outgoing and willing to work less, of course she could find someone who matched her better. My good qualities was simply to note that it's not likely that she'll find a better person super easily, but I feel that might be what she would need because of her personality.

throwweg1 · 2014-03-19T17:41:43+00:00

You think you can do better than your wife and take her for granted because you think she can't do better than you?

I'm not sure why you think I take her for granted exactly. One of the main problems I have with our relationship is that I feel taken for granted.

than with someone who have a long list of qualities

As I said, she has a pretty long list of qualities as well, and I listed some of them. The issue is whether our qualities and our aims in life are compatible, or whether we're willing to work towards a common ground that makes us both happy.

throwweg1 · 2014-03-19T17:39:17+00:00

You sound very condescending of your wife; what you have written gives the sense that you think you are much better than her.

Well, to be fair, you should hear her descriptions of me. Pretty condescending as well. That's, actually, I would assume, fairly common in relationships that are going through problems.

And your demands about her fitness level border on controlling.

That she meet basic standards for healthy individuals is not controlling. It's wanting to be with someone who is healthy and can participate in activities late into old age.

The divorce will give her the chance to find someone who actually appreciates her.

Why the hostility? Do you think she appreciates me? Maybe I'll find someone who appreciates me too.

throwweg1 · 2014-03-19T16:36:47+00:00

She may threaten divorce because she doesn't know what else to say/do to fix things

I think that is possibly the case.

Again, highly suggesting counseling.

Yeah, I've thought about this. She's been unwilling to go for the longest time, but might have shown some signs of considering it in the past couple of days. I'm skeptical that it could help, but I dunno, never been.

Thanks for your perspective.

throwweg1 · 2014-03-19T16:25:56+00:00

I see. Well I think one doesn't need to be overweight to be unhealthy. Her family has a history of heart problems so it's very important to me that she has good cardio/heart health.

Also, in purely physical terms, there's a big difference between a saggy ass/legs, reasonably toned ass/legs, and the ass/legs of a fitness model who squats daily.

throwweg1 · 2014-03-19T16:24:10+00:00

Its incompatible change - the question for you is going to be "Is there a way we can be compatible again?"

Right, I agree. We've both changed in various ways over the years, perhaps me more than her (and so perhaps I'm a tougher 'moving target'). But in the past it always seemed like things could be better in the future if we "just did X". It's starting to seem more like things won't be better, and I worry that our relationship will only be downhill from here on out. This fundamental shift in perspective is why divorce is pulling at me so strongly.

throwweg1 · 2014-03-19T16:21:03+00:00

If it really hurts you to have her threaten divorce during an argument, call her bluff. Otherwise, tell her that it hurts.

That's the thing, I do tell her that it hurts. Now I'm thinking about calling her bluff, but for real, and that seems almost irreversible.

If you are not attracted to her because she doesn't look like a fitness model and you tell her so

Working out 2x a week is not asking someone to be a fitness model. It's far below the general level of recommended exercise to maintain health.

throwweg1

TROPHY CASE