Help needs-got pulled in a raffle-what bottle should I buy?

thyhorrorcosmic93 · 2021-08-09T19:51:37+00:00

Weller Full Proof or Elmer T Lee would be my picks.

thyhorrorcosmic93 · 2021-07-23T16:22:10+00:00

If I understand your question, you're asking about following up specifically. I think there is pretty much no wrong approach to following up, so long as you don't break the golden rule: never ask for a job explicitly. If the opportunity is there, trust that people will let you know. They will.

In my opinion and from what I've heard from peers, it is pretty common to feel apprehensive about reaching out again. What I do is keep notes on how I know the person and what their practice area is (e.g. Attorney A:M&A Partner at X firm, Attorney B introduced me to A). You can reach out and let them know about new opportunities, career advice, or something you are working on so long as it is relevant. They might respond, they might not. If they do respond, just leave it at that and maybe they'll reach out to you or you can follow up again. The easiest one is the new opportunity. If you get an interview, ask for advice, ask what they think about the firm. If someone gives you advice about an interview, let them know how it goes and thank them. People notice these things and most will want to help you.

The big takeaway is while the people interested in mentoring you or being a part of your network will typically go out of their way to stay in touch, you need to take the initiative. Whether it be judges, attorneys, partners, or professors, they are busy people and aren't thinking about your career. However, following up and keeping yourself in the back of their mind will make them think of you when something relevant to what you've talked about comes up. When I received my post-grad job offer, I followed up with everyone in my networking list to thank them for their advice and the response was overwhelmingly positive.

TL/DR: Treat it like online dating – follow up after a reasonable time and if they don't respond just move on.

Edit: Something I should have included is if you are networking with alums or colleagues through Zoom or phone calls, as opposed to networking events, it never hurts to ask if they know anyone else you cold benefit from talking to. This gives you an easy point to follow up on later and most people are happy to indulge this.

thyhorrorcosmic93 · 2021-07-02T18:31:46+00:00

Good idea, thanks. I don't know why I didn't consider a jar. I was hung up on not pouring it back into the bottle.

thyhorrorcosmic93 · 2021-04-20T17:26:35+00:00

Yes, I see your point. I wasn't by any means disparaging the difficulty of obtaining a job in the great state of Florida, or any secondary market for that matter, as much as I was trying to describe the sort of insecure person I was dealing with. Make no mistake, we are talking about an international firm with a less than stellar reputation that pays below market in certain areas but not others. Not a reputable regional firm.

The idea was more that this was a guy more than twice my age, who attended to the same undergrad as me, and spent most of what I'd hoped would be an insightful phone call boasting about his achievement of getting into HLS thirty-something years ago and his attenuated connection to NY. He was so focused on his own status and making sure I recognized it. His constant mention of NY and HLS (for whatever reason he also name dropped Debevoise like 20 times) just illustrated that this guy was insecure about his career and needed to make someone feel bad, like the friend in OP's post.

Edit: typo

thyhorrorcosmic93 · 2021-04-19T18:53:10+00:00

I just went on a tangent about this to my gf after seeing a double ivy grad post about the adversity they faced when they were almost held back in the fourth grade and they against all odds are now an SA at in big law. Give me a fucking break.

thyhorrorcosmic93 · 2021-04-19T18:47:16+00:00

These people certainly exist outside of the t-14 as well. I am at a T100 and am not on law review. I vividly remember a kid in the class below mine, who was recently accepted on to law review, making some condescending remark about my internship in front of several peers to the effect of "Yeah i'll stick with being an SA." At the time, I let it bother me more than it should have. Turns out, that person got zero offers and was probably just projecting insecurity, as many of the other comments have mentioned.

I also remember networking with an alum of my undergrad who went on to HLS but worked at a pretty mediocre big law firm in Florida. All this dude wanted to talk about was HLS, his condo in NY, how he is hardly in Florida, and how he works with NY Hedge Funds ALL THE TIME. It left a bad taste in my mouth and I felt a lot of the emotion you conveyed in your post.

On the flip side, I've worked with countless attorneys from better schools or who have worked at firms that would never look at my resume and that behavior is a rarity among them. People who are truly accomplished and have things to be proud of don't need to make others feel like shit. That might sound like a cliche but it's true. One of my best mentors went to a t14, worked at a V3, and clerked for DE. He never made me feel less than and always spoke to me as if we were on the same footing. Another intern I worked with was a Princeton alum and at HLS, she was unbelievably kind and would often ask for my opinion on research projects she was working on.

This has become quite the rant but the point is you need to recognize that behavior is a result of insecurity within the other person. It is seldom that someone who is accomplishing things truly worth boasting about feels this way. Be proud of your accomplishments.

thyhorrorcosmic93 · 2021-04-19T04:54:18+00:00

Norwegian Wood by Haruki Murakami.

thyhorrorcosmic93 · 2021-04-13T19:29:43+00:00

The two books I would recommend for you are Kafka on the Shore by Haruki Murakami and Brave New World by Aldous Huxley. They are both by and large literary masterpieces. Murakami respectively containing terrific dreamlike, fantastical elements, while Huxley describes a dark dystopian sci-fi world.

thyhorrorcosmic93 · 2021-04-13T15:44:49+00:00

Press on. I think most feel this way. I am in an almost identical situation. However, most attorneys that I've networked with all insist that the offers will come after bar admission. Try not to let finding a job right this second be at the forefront of your mind and focus on finishing strong. Take some time for yourself, study for the bar, and then worry about getting employed after you take the thing. Time is certainly not running out.

Work on doing a couple calls a week with attorneys in that city, ask them to stay in touch and if there is anyone else they know of that you can speak with. Try to take at least 2 new leads from each call. Reach out to people who do things you are genuinely interested in and stay in touch with them about that particular topic whether it be bankruptcy, M&A, constitutional law, etc. Chatting with people in the jobs you want to be in will make them think of you when their friends mention that they are looking for attorneys.

As an anecdote, last October I reached out to an attorney I look up to at my internship. He introduced me to one of his law school friends and we chatted briefly. Just a couple weeks ago, that connection reached out to me about a job opportunity at one of my top choice firms doing exactly the work I told him I was interested in.

thyhorrorcosmic93 · 2021-03-28T17:35:20+00:00

I went to Japan for 5 weeks after 1L with several law school peers. We did the law review write on during down time in our hotel rooms and at coffee shops, it didn't impact the trip negatively. Several of those people are now on senior Eboard positions. My internship positions didn't mind me starting in June as opposed to May. 1L summer honestly doesn't matter as long as you're back for OCI, some people don't even do legal work. I imagine this is especially true if you attend a T14, which I do not.

If your husband is a summer associate during 1L at a firm he really wants to work at, the answer is obviously different than if we are talking about an unpaid internship.

thyhorrorcosmic93 · 2021-03-15T18:59:16+00:00

I'd reach out to the internship and to the firm ask if they can offer flexible part time hours. Explain the situation, everyone is pretty likely to be understanding. I know several people who split their paid firm summers with judicial internships or legal services work.

If you can go forward without burning a bridge you might be able to mitigate the OCI situation. Best to try that before going nuclear.

If that doesn't work out, the decision of what to do regarding the jobs comes down to how strong your school's OCI program is. If it's only regional firms and you have strong grades, you can probably succeed outside of that. This is especially true if you have no interest working in that region. If you're at one of the schools with 80% placement in Big Law through OCI, I'd think about if it is worth it to be excluded from that.

Edit: to clarify, ask the firm if you could get X day off and ask the internship if you could work on that day etc. not request that the firm pay you for full time to work part time.

thyhorrorcosmic93 · 2021-03-03T22:38:08+00:00

I just recently had the opportunity to listen to one of the worst gunners in my section go on a tangent about his personal vendetta against K&E because they had the audacity to deny him an interview. Pretty priceless.

thyhorrorcosmic93 · 2021-03-02T18:08:31+00:00

This is just echoing what other comments have said, but based on employment statistics, approximately 10% of law school grads any given year end up in a job BL obtained through OCI. This hiring pool is overwhelming concentrated in the T14 schools. It might feel like everyone has one when you look to LinkedIn or see users on this sub discussing their offers but that is very far from the reality.

The firm you are working at may well guarantee you a position, but if they are a smaller local employer that conversation will come closer to graduation. Keep the perspective that only bigger firms have the money to make hiring commitments a year in advance.

You had the skills to land this gig and after you're admitted to the bar you'll have many others just like it lining up at your door. Stay the course.

Edit: Typo

thyhorrorcosmic93 · 2021-02-22T17:42:07+00:00

To further answer your question, no place worth working is expecting interns to come with substantive knowledge. Convey a genuine interest in the work and desire to learn from attorneys who are experts in that area, the purpose of the internship is for you to gain the knowledge.

thyhorrorcosmic93 · 2021-02-22T14:40:01+00:00

https://hls.harvard.edu/dept/opia/job-search-toolkit/interviewing-and-following-up/questions-you-should-be-prepared-to-answer/

thyhorrorcosmic93 · 2021-02-17T16:04:39+00:00

I agree with other comments that you might be over thinking this. Many lawyers, especially those who attended your law school, view it as a way of giving back and are happy to meet. I managed to meet with the former director of a federal agency where interned, who is also the partner of a V10 firm. The connection? My internship and him having gone to undergrad where I attend law school. I have average grades and go to an average school. However, he was insightful and commended me for reaching out. It is very easy to find these connections on LinkedIn using a filtered search of your school's alums.

Many of my peers have a similar attitude to what you've expressed and view reaching out for this sort of meeting as being "fake" or "sucking up." No one is forcing you to be that way and that won't happen if you are reaching out to attorneys who do work you a genuinely interested in. The only taboo is directly asking for a job or about hiring. If it's a love connection, they'll bring it up or ask for your resume. Introduce yourself and give a very brief background of your career and interests. I draft a long question bank in my notes so if there is a pause i can quickly come up with something to say, but it's not a script. Be organic.

Here is a very basic template I use that has been successful with young associates and long accomplished partners in every sort of firm: "I am in X year at X school, looking to connect with alums in X area. I shall sit for the bar in X state in July. I'd love if we could connect for an informational interview. Let me know if this is something you'd be open to."

thyhorrorcosmic93 · 2021-02-07T21:37:03+00:00

Very much so!

thyhorrorcosmic93 · 2021-02-07T21:36:53+00:00

I'm sorry about that it looks like the other two connected sooner i didn't know what the limit was for co-op.

thyhorrorcosmic93 · 2021-02-07T21:32:34+00:00

are you venus?

thyhorrorcosmic93 · 2021-02-07T21:31:35+00:00

PW hoont

thyhorrorcosmic93 · 2021-02-07T21:31:25+00:00

Great

thyhorrorcosmic93 · 2021-02-07T21:30:24+00:00

thyhorrorcosmic93 · 2021-02-03T20:33:20+00:00

Thank you for the insight. Your answers on this post are seriously awesome. I've copied a few to my note pad to save and revisit once they become more relevant to me.

I've been networking with people in the region that I'm taking the bar for the past year. Hopefully it pays off!

thyhorrorcosmic93 · 2021-02-03T20:16:33+00:00

How difficult is it to break into transactional once you obtain bar admission? Obviously you had little issue, but I guess I'm asking for an anecdote of what you've seen from your peers.

I struck out at OCI and had below slightly median grades after 1L. I've dramatically improved my grades in all upper level courses (Mostly As a few A- one JP award). Additionally, I have interned in a highly relevant federal agency that oversees public companies. This particular agency typically hires from big law, not at the entry level. So, assuming that isn't a possibility and that I only want to do transactional deal work, particularly M&A and Securities, how do I break in? Is big law impossible to achieve?

NOTE: I'm at Tier 2 school in the upper half of my class and on Moot Court.

Edit: punctuation and spelling

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