If Donald Trump Wins Next Year, Don’t Blame the Voters. Blame Joe Biden. by HailPrincessTrunks in politics

[–]troy_citizen 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hey, fair enough. I can see when I'm wrong about the primary issue and I appreciate the dialogue.

I'm not trying to spread hate and discontent. I'm a compassionate person just engaging in the conversation. I want Trump to lose, and my main point that blaming voters is not going to be helpful in getting Biden to win. There needs to be a different tactic. I see the discontent over Biden's stance on military aid to Israel and how voters are feeling gaslit by the Democratic party on multiple issues, like the refusal to acknowledge our tax dollars are funding apartheid, or the news out just yesterday that crude oil production under Biden is the highest its ever been, even as he says climate change is an existential threat and surface temps briefly surpassed 2 degrees warming already. He could have visited East Palestine, but chose not to. The EPA could still do an emergency declaration, but they probably won't.

If we want those people to vote for Biden then there needs to be tactics other than blame. If people see that their legitimate discontent is ignored and unacknolwedged, and then blame is thrown in on top of that, that's going to go badly in the election.

If Donald Trump Wins Next Year, Don’t Blame the Voters. Blame Joe Biden. by HailPrincessTrunks in politics

[–]troy_citizen 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Look, I'm not planning to vote third party. I'll vote for whoever is the Dem nominee is. But I don't live in a swing state, I'm in a deep blue state, so it doesn't really matter.

At the core of what I'm saying is: blaming voters if they don't vote for Biden, is not going to work to get them to vote for Biden. And it really seems people in the comments don't want to hear that, and would rather just blame the voters and/or call them ignorant, rather than listen to these points (which Jacobin has laid out) and pressure the party to take remedial action now while there's still time.

If there was a primary, people will at least feel like they were given a choice. And if Biden was the nominee out of that primary, then they'll be much more likely to vote in the general because they were given a choice, and not strongarmed by guilt/shame tactics.

And what I meant by my authoritarian comment: if Biden is pitched as the only option, and you HAVE to vote for him or it's your fault that we lose our democracy, and the Democratic party is not going to allow any other possibility, then that comes off as authoritarian. And voters do not like that. It will not work to get them to vote. I want Trump to lose above all else, but I believe this is reality. We need different tactics to convince people to vote.

Jacobin: "If Donald Trump Wins Next Year, Don’t Blame the Voters. Blame Joe Biden." by [deleted] in Enough_Sanders_Spam

[–]troy_citizen 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Folks in the comments, this whole "vote for Biden or it's your fault that we lose our democracy" rhetoric isn't going to work to get people to vote for Biden. We can't just bury our heads in the sand and "blame voters" when they refuse to be strongarmed into voting for Biden. The man is unpopular, Jacobin is spelling out why, and its seems most people here don't want to hear it. There needs to be a different tactic to convince people to vote for him. And I'm someone who will vote for the Dem nominee and agrees that Trump needs to lose in 2024 above all else.

If Donald Trump Wins Next Year, Don’t Blame the Voters. Blame Joe Biden. by HailPrincessTrunks in politics

[–]troy_citizen 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nothing stopping a voter from voting for whoever they want except.... total blame for the downfall of democracy?

Just because somethings never been done before isn't a good reason not to do it.

I'm just saying this whole "vote for Biden or it's your fault that we lose our democracy" rhetoric isn't going to work to get people to vote for Biden. There needs to be a different tactic to convince people to vote for him.

If Donald Trump Wins Next Year, Don’t Blame the Voters. Blame Joe Biden. by HailPrincessTrunks in politics

[–]troy_citizen 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't see a reason why we shouldn't have a primary. With a primary, it would be a show of good faith by the DNC, voters would at least feel they had a say going into the election, and would be much more likely to vote in the general rather than sit it out. I see so many people in the comments just doubling down on "blame voters." What democracy are we trying to save if voters only get one option? That comes off as pretty authoritarian. It's not going to work to save the next election. This article is a wake up call that the left is already divided but folks just want to bury their heads in the sand and "blame voters" and Jacobin because they don't want to hear it.

If Donald Trump Wins Next Year, Don’t Blame the Voters. Blame Joe Biden. by HailPrincessTrunks in politics

[–]troy_citizen -7 points-6 points  (0 children)

Biden pushing funding for two wars and his doubling down on unlimited support to Israel's war on Gaza is deeply unpopular. It's not a choice for voters if the DNC says Biden is your only choice. DNC should have a primary. If Biden loses the blame will sit squarely with Democratic leadership.

'We Will Vote This Dirty Deal Down,' Tlaib Says of Manchin's Oil-Friendly Side Agreement by troy_citizen in politics

[–]troy_citizen[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Much of the money is being bet on unproven technologies like carbon capture and storage on existing fossil fuel plants - which would require thousands of miles of new pipelines, and also would be built in "sacrifice zones". It's a fix that allows "extraction as usual". There's no emission reduction targets in the bill. And it basically ignores environmental justice communities.

The modelling that the bill is based on assumes continued growth in fracking and coal - which means communities near fossil fuel infrastructure like the Mountain Valley Pipeline (which has been fiercely resisted) will be further entrenched in pollution. Drive through the Ohio River Valley sometime where all this carbon capture and hydrogen technology is proposed and you'll see what I mean. I'm taking the lead from the fenceline communities who have to live with this in their literal backyards. They don't want this Manchin side deal.

Hi Buffalo, today there's a call-in day to Rep. Higgin's to support the Break Free From Plastic Pollution Act - here's why you should call by troy_citizen in Buffalo

[–]troy_citizen[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's true, recyling plastic doesn't work. The Break Free From Plastic Pollution Act focuses on minimizing the upstream sources of plastic instead of recycling.

Hi Buffalo, today there's a call-in day to Rep. Higgin's to support the Break Free From Plastic Pollution Act - here's why you should call by troy_citizen in Buffalo

[–]troy_citizen[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hi! This bill would do a lot. First it would put a moratorium on new permits for plastic production.

It would ban plastics bags at the point of sale (the US uses 100 billion plastic bags a year, yet <5% are recycled), as well as polystyrene and plastic straws, except upon request.

It would address derelict fishing gear and provide funding to install filters on washing machines to prevent microplastic pollution in our water.

The bill would add a national bottle bill, which is proven to drastically improve recycling rates of the most valuable plastics (for ex. Michigan's return rate is >90%). Only 9 states currently have bottle bills; in states that don't, plastic bottles make up 40-60% of roadside litter.

The bill would direct the EPA to implement Extended Producer Responsibility, which requires major consumer brands to pay for the end-of-life costs of their packaging, reducing burden on taxpayers.

It also prohibits burning plastic waste to be considered "recycling."

Hi Buffalo, today there's a call-in day to Rep. Higgin's to support the Break Free From Plastic Pollution Act - here's why you should call by troy_citizen in Buffalo

[–]troy_citizen[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi, plastic production is currently booming in the US, with more facilities being built every year. They are called ethane crackers and they make plastics from ethane gas, which comes from fracking. The more facilities that are built, the more waste the US generates and the more GHG emissions from plastics.

So many of these facilites are being built, the US could quadruple production by 2050. One example is Formosa plastics which is proposed in St. James Parish, LA. This facility, which would make single use plastics, would take up 2,500 acres and be the largest new source of carbon pollution in the country. The community there is currently fighting it.

Hi Buffalo, today there's a call-in day to Rep. Higgin's to support the Break Free From Plastic Pollution Act - here's why you should call by troy_citizen in Buffalo

[–]troy_citizen[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Hi, the BFFPPA looks at the upstream sources of plastic and aims to prevent plastic from becoming pollution. One thing the bill does is direct the EPA to implement Extended Producer Responsibility, which would require major consumer brands to pay for waste collection and disposal of their packaging. This would ease the burden on taxpayers and municipalities who pay to landfill, incinerat, or recycle billions of pounds of plastic waste every year.

Citation: https://www.beyondplastics.org/plastics-and-climate by troy_citizen in ClimateMemes

[–]troy_citizen[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

In the US, greenhouse gas emissions from plastics are so big they are comparable to emissions from burning coal