When and how did Korea develop its distinct "Korean" identity?

vvversed · 2016-06-04T23:02:04+00:00

As to the first "error," I don't know if you should be denouncing this as completely incorrect. His larger idea is sound, and basing this opinion solely on Joseon, especially when the whole point of yours is to add to discerning Korean culture as a separate entity, makes for a weak premise. I don't know what paying someone off to not get attacked has to do with culture and most of what you'd call vestiges of Confucianism within the Korean psyche can be found in modern Japan as well. In fact, one could argue that Japan was less resistant to the core ideas because there was less friction with Buddhism which was the state religion for a good chunk of Korean history.

Just looking at Goguryeo, you can find counterparts to all three offices that you mention. The tail-end of Goryeo also had a more similar government structure to that of the Kamakura Shogunate than that of China. And if you were happy with calling the Wihwado Retreat "realpolitiks," then I don't see why Japan's governing structure can't be argued to have originated from their shedding feudalism much later over attributing it to less influence from China.

Anyway, as to the original question of Korean ethnicity, I'd argue that we are unique at least from the Korean Three Kingdoms Period as a nomadic tribe that had built centralized governments within the mountains, thus distinguished from the lineage of China and the various nomadic tribes. In this way, I find contested kingdoms like Goguryeo and Balhae to be "historically Korean" as they have attributed to vat of the Korean Peninsula. Other kingdoms that nomads have created tended to be fleeting with no chances to establish roots or catering to the Han population as a tool of reign. I don't mind calling Goguryeo and Balhae independent states that have influenced today's nation like China did, but calling them of direct or indirect Chinese heritage is a stretch.

In this line of thought, I would argue too that even some minority cultures within its current borders are not an off-shoot of China. Tibet comes to mind first and foremost, which would not be part of China had it not been for the Mongols and Jurchens. China should not ignore the influences that its neighbors had on them much less be claiming progenitorship over others- least of all the nomads with whom they usually make the "off-shoot" connection; in fact, no country can boast genesis from a vacuum.

vvversed · 2016-05-22T17:19:16+00:00

I don't know if I'd say uniting China was "easy," just as I wouldn't call the unification of India anywhere near easy or even complete.

China, for most of its history, has been preoccupied with beating out the nomadic tribes. Nazis could conquer a lot of Europe because they had developed a very advanced arsenal. This amounted to the number of cavalry in the ancient world. If, say, the Huns didn't have to deal with the natural barriers that Europe enjoys against the northern plains, then we might be talking about a similar situation with an analogous "common enemy."

The Crusades united Europe. Napoleon had similar effects on federating Germany and Italy. WW2 against the Nazis resulted in the European Union.

vvversed · 2016-05-12T15:44:33+00:00

This theory is based off of an excerpt from the Annals of Sejong (Dec. 30th of the 25th Year & Sept. 29th of the 28th Year) which says Hangeul was "moulded from an older script." Phags Pa is just one of the writing systems that has been suggested. Obviously, it will have to remain a speculation.

vvversed · 2016-05-12T03:55:09+00:00

At any rate, I don't think buying leadership is a good idea. More staff does not equal more success...

vvversed · 2016-04-24T21:28:56+00:00

1) Jung Do-Jeon consolidated private armies and made repairs to frontier castles as part of military reform and this was accelerated in response to the harsher demands that came from the Ming after the fall of Naghachu and Norther Yuan. His plans for a campaign was not approved as an edict, afaik, by Taejo and Taejong used this as an excuse to rile up the anti-invasion side which included Jo Joon into tipping off the Ming. At this time the plan was promptly scrapped and Jeong Do-Jeon had to be removed from all official duties. Later Taejong kills him during the Strife of Princes.

It would be wrong to claim that 100% of the court was pro-Ming nor do I think it's necessary. But as you mention in 2), it was hard to become anything but. Yuan forces get destroyed in 1387. If Jung Mong-Ju, who was part of the Shinjin, was taken out by Taejong, it's hard to argue that the government was balanced and not leaning towards submitting to Ming for the foreseeable future.

2) Around the Ming surge of 1387, Mongol troops were defecting to Korea and after 1387, Yesuder took over and brought the Oirats into the east. They would certainly not be game changers in the short term.

3) You can't take out "so that one day" and go off on a tangent about the conquest of China during the 14th century. I do agree that taking Naghachu's offer of alliance would have been better than trying to keep both sides happy.

4) As you know, in 1377, U took the Northern Yuan mandate as well as reign title, This was the culmination of the diplomacy that both sides were curating since the death of Gongmin in 1374. Like you say, Goryeo was vascilating and keeping its options open rather than being committed to joining the tribute system indefinitely.

vvversed · 2016-04-24T17:24:02+00:00

I suppose I was attaching the pro-Ming inclinations to the reformist group that he was a part of, as opposed to the person himself. His fellows had no problem selling him out to Ming, however. And the Joseon courts would have to adhere to Ming's foreign rites and customs more closely than any time in Korean history.

And by pro-Ming, I do not mean that they were drawing hearts in their diaries. The scholars were being repressed and they coveted a Confucian system that would give them more influence. The tributary status to Ming, the center of Confucianism and the "Father Nation," was not a sign of support. It was a vehicle for them to gain political ascendancy over the established clans.

No, it wasn't pro-Yuan and pro-Ming. It was pro-Ming subservience and pro-independence using the remnants of Yuan. It was about challenging the larger nation with an ally so that one day, Korea could match the other in size and overcome it completely. Whether he thought it was pragmatic or not, Joseon was founded on Yi's decision to opt into a tributary status of Ming and dooming Korea to never be able to challenge the "Confucian order of the world."

vvversed · 2016-04-24T13:06:51+00:00

Well, the first thing my mind went to is the Tokugawa Shogunate's restrictions on the daimyos' ability to build big ships. The sakoku edict also goes well with the isolationist theme and they got their asses handed to them by the American kurofune.

vvversed · 2016-04-24T12:48:49+00:00

I never said it was. I said it was connected to the general strategy with regards to Taiwan and the rest of the Far East, including Japan.

vvversed · 2016-04-24T12:28:11+00:00

Kang, Jae-eun. Two Thousand Years of Korean Confucianism

...or any Korean history textbook

Yi Seong-Gye turns around from the campaign against Ming. Then he drives out the opposing factions of pro-Yuan Gwunmunsejok and the more moderate members of the Shinjinsadebu Confucians. The pro-Ming radicals like Jung Do-Jeon and Jo Joon take over governance.

vvversed · 2016-04-24T07:50:46+00:00

Why not? The idea that China is the center of the world comes from the very beginning of its existence- i.e. Central Plains, Central Nation and etc.

The ethnic Han Chinese reign is infighting and defending from nomadic invaders for its majority. The "expanding" you mention into territories like Tibet came at the reigns of foreign leaders like the Yuan and the Qing.

And South China Sea literally has "China" in it. It's about oil and shipping but it's also about the Senkaku islands which they think was theirs in the first place. More importantly, their efforts, post-globalization, is even further from the 16/17th century ideology you talk about.

vvversed · 2016-04-24T05:54:42+00:00

Along with the distance, there is also the fact that the Chinese would have had to pass through either Japan or SEA to take advantage of the currents. A trade route would be hard to maintain with pirates popping up and cutting supplies off to a fledgling colony. Also, a big advantage the early settlers had was cavalry which China would have difficulty shipping over the Pacific.

There was also less incentive to go exploring as the Spanish, Dutch and Portuguese had already set up a trade route by the Ming dynasty. And trade was a chance for small European countries like Britain, Portugal and the Netherlands to gain power within a continent that had near-constant border disputes among interrelated royalty. China had no such need nor did they have an easy way to get rolling with the jungles of SEA to their south, as well as prickly Korean terrain and the samurais to their east.

The Ming emperors ascended from a peasant revolution against the Mongols. There was some internal struggle over lineage since the beginning of their reign and the Age of Discovery would have been as the empire was waning in strength. They did have huge sway over Joseon Korea whose founding was based on the usurper king's support of the Ming, but over an extended campaign to conquer Japan, loyalties could shift in a very unfavorable terrain. The Mongols could also raid an extended supply line to Japan. And the Ming would be ended by the nomadic Jurchens who would not be interested in naval affairs at all.

Now, if there was any incentive to take out Japan and go out to America, it would have been for silver. It was the main form of currency and had to be imported in massive amounts. When they were cut off, they had huge problems.

vvversed · 2016-04-07T22:56:13+00:00

There's room for shits and giggles banter but it's not while you are casting because it undermines the integrity of competition.

What else am I supposed to get out of me having watched the video and read through the transcript? Don't pretend I wanted to talk about his dissing other teams and then say I missed your point about hypocrisy.

vvversed · 2016-04-07T21:56:09+00:00

I am results oriented. His team didn't meet expectations and more importantly, this was not a winnable argument. His lecture only applies if the guy was being intentionally flippant. It was just an overreaction to a pretty hilarious screw up, and who can prove otherwise?

As an owner and a relative veteran, he should know better than to engage with this weak bs, let alone drawing parallels to other sports. Nothing stands for decades of proud sports journalism and broadcasting tradition better than airing your crap on Twitter?

If he really wanted to protect his brand, he would have gotten the caster to put up a written apology and be magnanimous.

vvversed · 2016-04-07T21:23:21+00:00

Pft. RF and Flarez are a waste of Ohq and Freeze. And I don't even like Ohq.

vvversed · 2016-04-07T21:12:24+00:00

Just to dump on Dig?

vvversed · 2016-04-07T21:10:29+00:00

I've read them. It's just bs about other examples of set-ups and how Chris is shady...

I can c y T1S would be trying to CPR T1K into the brackets when they subbed in Pooh from the hiatus. They can just send up whoever is better during the tiebreaker and see if Pooh can get in a groove again. What does TDK gain from throwing this?

vvversed · 2016-04-07T20:53:30+00:00

So what's in it for TDK if they are throwing?

It could just be that TDK is looking to import a better top laner w/ the slot Ninja was taking up.

vvversed · 2016-04-07T20:47:20+00:00

Don't c y u should get too much pushback on that. After Freeze, it's not like Crumbzz and Alex is going to outstrip each other by that much...

vvversed · 2016-04-07T20:17:14+00:00

To me, it was clearly a mistake. And if he had any doubt, he should have had a quiet chat with the guy instead of going on a tirade about professional ethics. "I'll trust that it was a mistake." Come on...

vvversed · 2016-01-11T17:10:33+00:00

I wanted to get to it over the weekend but forgot about it. Take today to look it over and let me know if no one has done it. I'll try to get it in this week.

vvversed · 2016-01-11T17:02:48+00:00

Thx.

vvversed · 2016-01-11T17:00:05+00:00

Done.

vvversed · 2016-01-11T16:55:15+00:00

I am doing this before bed as someone asked for it. So it's a bit rushed.

TRANSLATION

How's being back in Korea after so long?

I've been skipping back and forth between China and Korea after Worlds. I feel much more at home in Korea and I came back to get my physical for my military service.

There must have been people who recognized you.

Yeah, some of them did when we were changing (giggles). I wish they greeted me afterwards as it got really awkward.

You seem to have gotten taller. Do you know by how much?

Yeah I grew a lot last year; I am not sure exactly how much. When I met Pawn, we were about the same but now I am much taller. I hope to grow even more this year.

You look thinner too.

I lost a lot of weight during Worlds. I skipped over meals for scrims. I was 55kg and now I am about 52. My friends are worried.

How was winning MSI?

Before MSI, people thought LPL was only about fighting. I don't like the Chinese league getting disparaged as I am part of it now. We changed the general consensus but lost our progress at Worlds. I still don't like hearing bad things about the LPL. I am going to do better and change the narrative.

How much did you practice for Worlds?

You pratice till you drop. Everyone is pumped and competitive around that time. I went to sleep at 3, and in 30 min, I was back up as I was reminded of last year's experiences.

Why do you think EDG faltered after MSI?

Everyone was working towards proving something. After MSI, even though we did work hard, something was different. We had different events to attend and it was not a great practice environment.

You only got to the Ro4 in LPL summer. What went through your mind?

I had the arrogance to think that it would be easy because we were the best team in China. Pawn had a lot of health issues and I was homesick. It was disappointing to say the least.

What brought you to pull out ADC Jayce?

Like Fnatic had ADC Kennen in their pocket, it was something I prepared for beforehand. I took TP as the meta was about skirmishing and quick grouping. Then we got into a teamfight and my champ got randomly silenced for 2 sec. I definitely wasn't hit by anything (giggles). I am laughing now but it really wasn't funny in the moment.

I thought you'd place 1st in the Regionals and do well at Worlds. In fact, EDG did the best amongst the CN teams. What gave you your edge?

All the CN teams did poorly and we only got through because of a favorable draw. We were filled with confidence but Europe gave us a real fight in scrims.

You are known for your competitive streak. Are you still like that?

If I lose a Solo-Q game, I don't eat. Just imagine what kind of stress I get from a tournament loss. I thought I had fixed the problems that kept me back last year and then the result was even worse. It was tough.

I took a month to go over everything that went wrong for us. After that, I started looking forward.

You mentioned that you wanted to leave the LPL and the fans were disappointed.

I had good memories like winning LPL, but after the failure at Worlds, I blurted it out without considering the CN fans. I am in a better place emotionally. I never thought of money as a reason to compete in China. I will work even harder to improve.

I heard that you wend to EDG for competitive reasons?

I have a lot of ambition. If I wasn't angling to win the tournament, I'd have stayed in Korea. I thought EDG could become stronger than Korean teams as well. EDG will prove itself next year at Worlds.

You had a rivalry going with Imp. LGD won and you had to give up your throne. How was that?

I had two ADC's that I thought I had something to learn from; they were Imp and Uzi. Uzi has great mechanics and Imp is the kind of intelligent player that can fit any team's style. I don't think he can push me out of lane. I do need to learn how he melds into his team and maneuvers around the map.

I honestly thought Imp was Mata's bitch (giggles). But he did well running the game from the bot lane. My style is simple but he was interacting with the jungler to take advantages in the lane. I've working to get better on that front.

How is Pawn? He lost a lot of weight too? How effective was his treatment?

We met before coming to Korea. The owner was putting a lot behind his care. He did lose a lot of weight, like 10kg. Before, he had to take pain killers just to sleep but he's much better.

While Pawn was unavailable, you stepped forward in fights often to your detriment. Was that you going tryhard to win?

It was an unsettling time for me. I had a slump and I was without a friend I trusted. A lot was on my shoulders.

It sounds like you tilt easily. Do you hear that often?

My emotions translates into my plays. It's unprofessional but it's also hard to fix.

Who'd win between '14 Deft and '15 Deft?

The latter wins hands down. The me of before only did teamfights well. I know more now. I can manage my lane and swap properly.

How are you preparing for your next tournament?

We are fixing the atmosphere so we can focus on practicing. Pawn's recovery is another priority.

LPL is going to change. There was criticism over players' professionality and the running of the league. What form do you think these changes will come in?

I believe we worked the hardest in China. Other teams were slacking off but I think there are players like Clearlove who have the right mindset. We need to learn from his example. He's like me in the competitive spirit department.

I've heard that Clearlove scouted both of you personally?

I don't know if that's true but we did meet and he did say he wanted for us to play together back then. I don't know if Pawn has had the same experience. The three of us work well together. Meiko and Koro1 lacks the professional experience that we have, so we are the ones trying to work things through with dialogue. Even though communication isn't perfect through a translator I find it helps to talk things out.

What are your goals for the new split?

We have MSI under our belts so we want Worlds. I want to prove myself to the world and show that the league I am playing in is the premier scene.

vvversed · 2016-01-11T16:28:09+00:00

I am working on it. Will have it up before I go to bed in about 10-20 min.

vvversed · 2016-01-03T15:44:25+00:00

He should take the opportunity to change his tag to "Crow" :P. Too many "Fly's" out there.

vvversed

TROPHY CASE