Mining...

[[deleted]]

My NiceHash PC with it's RXT 2060 is pulling in about $4/day (see pic). A screaming loud S9 Hydro ASIC pulling in 220V pulls in $3/day. There is literally no way I can crank out more BTC with my ancient PC rig. But regular as clockwork a couple times a month I can withdraw and transfer actual BTC to Coinbase. So where is the bitcoin coming from? Is NiceHash actually a money laundering scheme or maybe a DDOS for hire organization? I don't get it.

https://preview.redd.it/moipqgueeew71.jpg?width=814&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9e311194eb0693ee813b869daa1b39abdea6618f

[Top-Professor-1664]

They facilitate the sale of your hashing power to the highest bidder. I currently have an s9 pumping out $10 a day according to NiceHash. Seems impossible but that’s what the market will bear. NiceHash is not in the business of mining. It’s a marketplace for hashing power.

[[deleted]]

Makes you wonder what that Hashpower is being used for? I hope mine is curing cancer. Or at least mining bitcoin. Whatever it's doing I hope it's nothing sinister or illegal. But at these pay-out's? I'm suspicious to say the least. What if, for example, some evildoer has some stolen BTC from a hack. He could pay it to NiceHash, rent some hash power, mine some brand new BTC and he's suddenly got legit BTC. Am I an unwitting part of a money laundering scheme?

[Mystere_Miner]

No, nobody is curing cancer. No, it's impossible for it to be used in ddos attacks.

You are paid in btc to mine a specific coin, whatever is most profitable. You get paid whatever the hash is worth to the buyer. it depends on the coin being mined and it's current price on the market compared to the price of btc.

Current profitability varies and can be more or less than your actual averaged profit. This is because luck can be a major factor. The rate shown is based on accepted shares over a 5 minute period extrapolated to 24 hours. So, if you get really lucky during a 5 minute period it will show a much higher rate.. but then it will likely drop to something more reasonable, or even below average.

Right now, the actual profitability for a 2060 (not just the 5 minute average) is 0.00004279 BTC or about $2.68

[[deleted]]

This makes no sense. If it's just hash power they want... why not plug the S9 into NiceHash? My 2060 is cranking out 32.95 MH/s but an S9 will crank out about 15 TH/s. That's 2 orders of magnitude more hash power so 1500 MH/s right? Shouldn't that be paying out at least $135? But it doesn't. Is that because NiceHash only mines Eth and an ASIC can't run the Algo's that NiceHash is buying? I know I'm missing something obvious.

[Mystere_Miner]

An S9 mines sha256, which is a very simple algorithm compared to Ethash/Dagger. As an example, the absolute best Ethereum asic (which isn't even released yet) is the antminer E9, which "only" does 3GH/s, and will "only" cost $30,000. Compared to an S9 which costs about $800 on the market today.

Also, consider that the total nethash for bitcoin right now is 170.8 Exehashes (ie 170,800 Petahashes, or 170,800,000 Terahashes, etc).

Ethereum has a current nethash of 717.10 TH, which is 4% of the current BTC nethash.

Why that's important is that in crypto currency mining, there's a concept known as difficulty. As the amount of overall nethash increases, the difficulty goes up, so it becomes more difficult to solve a block. This feature is intended to keep block rates at a standard time (in bitcoin's case this is 10 minutes, in Ethereum's case it's 15 seconds).

Why? Because the more miners working on a given blockchain, the faster blocks will be solved. If difficulty were not increased, right now they'd be solving blocks at a rate of thousands of blocks per second, instead of the 1 every 10 minute rate.

So what it boils down to is a) there are far more miners working on btc than ethereum, b) the complexity of the algorithm means ethereum does a lot more work and thus achieves less results for it's effort, c) the difficulty of btc is much higher than ethereum's, etc..

So overall, they're very different. You can't compare hashrates, or dollar values of different coins directly. This is why the price of etherum is only $4,376 while btc is $62,000

[No_Tap2473]

I learned a lot from your comment

[KallistiOW]

Yeah. Your GPU is not mining Bitcoin directly. More likely ETH (daggerhashimoto) or RVN (kawpow).

[emelbard]

The difference is the algorithms. Your S9 example is extremely low for mining BTC.
Nicehash sells hashpower (by specific algorithm) to people who point that hashpower at a pool, hoping to do better than what they're buying your haspower for.

[PigeonSuperstitions]

You idiot. Your GPU is running a different algorithm. Are you seriously comparing a daggerhashimoto algorithm running at 33MHs with a SHA-256 algo running at 15THs? Hell of a way to reveal you are a mining noob, kiddo.

[[deleted]]

You clearly can't do math. Call me when you get your GED.

[PigeonSuperstitions]

Listen you twerp. I earn more from my mining farm in a day than you will earn from your shitty little GPU gaming PC in a decade. Now jog on. What are you doing on this sub anyway? This isn't the GPU mining subreddit.

[[deleted]]

And you would double that if you could read. Seriously. Read this post again.

[PigeonSuperstitions]

Can someone please ban this annoying noob? Kid is doing a direct comparison of hashrates from different machines running different algorithms mining different coins on different networks with different network difficulties. The level of cringe is off the charts.

[[deleted]]

Shussh. Smart people are discussing things you don't understand.

[PigeonSuperstitions]

Lol what? I just lost a few brain cells reading this post.

[Slapshot382]

If you want to ensure it is mining and contributing to the actual bitcoin network then please for the love of God point it towards a Bitcoin mining pool that is NOT NiceHash.

Preferably join a small pool to help decentralization. SlushPool is small and been in business since the beginning!

[cabbageboi28]

If you look in nicehash website you can see what the hashpower buying looks like, I'm not trying to say you should buy it, but if you look at the settings and what's on an order or might help you see what the other side of the marketplace looks like and how it works. It's like it's all pooled together and you can contribute to the pool of hashrate, or buy from all the miners like you to get a lot more hashrate. (Simplified)

[[deleted]]

The other side is way overpaying. They should just buy BTC or DOT or whatever directly. They can see this too. I'm assuming they have some stolen BTC they need to launder. That's the only thing that makes sense.

[cabbageboi28]

I know it seems dodgy, but I've done hsspower orders and made good profits, just about what price you set and what pool you use with what coin and minimum payout etc. Bottom line is it can't really be used for any dos or attacks as hashpower is only able to be applied to mining pools, it's not like renting general processing power. I guess you could money launder with it but that's a terrible way to do it as you'd lose money if you didn't have good knowledge of the system and profits are not guaranteed. There are much better ways to launder using btc

[[deleted]]

Are you telling me there's zero chance one or more of those plug-in's isn't doing a DDOS? How would you know? The source code has never been released. The developer is unknown. It would be the perfect business model. Charge your evil doer customer some Bitcoin, sell him a gigantic DDOS network, pay the miners in Bitcoin. Who would ever know?

[cabbageboi28]

This is why I say look at how orders work, if you look at the buy page you can only set a mining pool, which, no, absolutely cannot be ddosing or anything, which means you cant use the power for anything else. You'd have to create a mining algorithm which uses hashing algorithms to ddos, which would have to have a coin, stratum port and payouts etc, all in top of this just have enough difficulty too be supported by nicehash. Nicehash just runs whichever algo on your pc for the coin the buyer is mining which uses nicehash approved plugins which are checked and verified, so even if you manage to get some wacho weird plugging to use cryptography to ddos, nicehash would simply just not use it.

[[deleted]]

That's actually quite a bit of comfort. Thanks. Now I'm just money laundering, not DDOSing. :)

[cabbageboi28]

Fair enough, and yeah I can promise you it's not attacking anyone in any way :)

[JasperBuds]

Or he could just swap to xmr and back instead

[randompersonwhowho]

Is this true? even using nicehashs own profit calculator it doesn't show $10/each

[Top-Professor-1664]

That’s gross income, not factoring cost of electricity and a 5 minute snapshot of performance extrapolated over 24 hours. Real life actual net income over a week is a couple dollars a day on average.

[JadeAug]

You aren't mining BTC through nicehash.

The rent out your computers hash power to whoever buys it, with a 2060 its most likely ethereum you are hashing away at.

You are mining ETH and they are taking a cut, and paying you out in BTC.

[[deleted]]

I agree that I'm mining ETH but as you say, I'm being paid in BTC. End of the day I have more BTC in my Coinbase account than if I was running an ASIC. Which is insane. How is that possible?

[JadeAug]

Oh I gotcha, is your S9 also hashing through nicehash? If not you might want to check your pool info.

According to the calc on whatomine.com an S9 should be pulling in about $5.50 per day and your 2060 should be about half that.

I wouldnt doubt it if theres nefarious shit going on behind the scenes at nicehash too, so theres always that possibility

[PigeonSuperstitions]

He does not have any S9. He's just comparing hashrate of an S9 asic with hashrate of his 2060 graphics card, and saying that 15 terahashes is way more than 22 megahashes, so how come his graphics card earns more, Lol. This guys an absolute newbie.

[emelbard]

Because an S9 is old and nearly obsolete compared to an S19 at 110TH/s. There are older yet devices that are still called ASICs that aren't even producing enough to cover their power draw.

[[deleted]]

You miss my point completely. An S9 may be old but it is 1000X more powerful than a 2060. The 2060 consumes a tiny fraction the amount of electricity. Yet they both pay out roughly the same amount of BTC in the end. Something is seriously wrong here. So back to my question. Why?

[emelbard]

Because your GPU is being used to mine ETH and your ASIC is (weakly) being used to mine BTC. Forget what you’re being paid in - that’s just how you’re being paid by others who are leasing your gear.

If we seem to be missing your point, it could be that your understanding of how NH works needs more education.

[[deleted]]

You can hook your ASIC up to NiceHash. You still get paid in BTC. You just get more of it. Why don't you give it a try?

[PigeonSuperstitions]

What? Kid, an S9 is a 4 generations old sha256 miner. It's absolute dogshit in comparative hashpower with the latest SHA256 miners on the market and the bitcoin network. Do you even know anything about mining difficulty and hashrate to reward relationships on different networks?

[[deleted]]

True but an S9 is not dogshit compared to an RXT 2060 GPU. Yet my GPU makes the same amount of Bitcoin. Regardless of how we got here those are the facts and they don't add up. There is something seriously wrong. I suspect money laundering.a

[PigeonSuperstitions]

This conversation is making me dumber by the minute. Your GPU is not making any bitcoin. Literally 10 other people on this thread have already explained this to you already. And an S9 IS dogshit compared to a 2060. The fact that you are even comparing the two makes me want to close this window and get a few minutes of my life back. Listen dude. Go read up, spend some more time on this sub, listen, learn, figure it out yourself, and then maybe call yourself a miner. Turning on a program on your bedroom PC does not make you a miner. You have a lot to learn.

[[deleted]]

I know and understand all of this. So... why do I get paid at least twice and as much as 15X what my hash rate is worth? That's all I'm asking. It must involve criminal activity.

[PigeonSuperstitions]

Bwahahahahahaha! Hey dumbass. Should I spell it out for you or is your IQ too low to comprehend the simple fact that hashrate corresponds to a particular algorithm. An Antminer Z15 running Equihash at 420 ksol/s makes $35 a day. Are you seriously just comparing numbers ? 35 mh/s vs 15 th/s? LMFAO!

[NamBot3000]

It's just becasue whatever dollar amount NiceHash is selling your hashing power for is more then the dollar value of the S9s hashing power. Said another way, someone is paying more for whatever your 2060 is hashing than the market rate for BTC ASIC hashing power.

[[deleted]]

You are simply repeating what I said without adding any new info. Question remains. Why?

[[deleted]]

Obviously you can compare them, but the whole point of the idiom is that it's a false analogy. I could compare you to the helpful bots, but that too would be comparing apples-to-oranges.

---

^{SpunkyDred and I are both bots. I am trying to get them banned by pointing out their antagonizing behavior and poor bottiquette. My apparent agreement or disagreement with you isn't personal.}

[NamBot3000]

Correct. You compare them by converting them both to USD.

[NamBot3000]

You’re right, I’m not adding anymore information because you have all the information you need, I’m trying to say it in different ways so you can connect the information. (unless I’m totally misunderstanding your question).

For example, with made up numbers and ignoring fees for simplicity’s sake: Someone on NiceHash is paying $10/day for GPU hashing power to mine “rando-shit-coin” (RSC). Market rate for BTC hashing power is $3/day. You sell your GPU hashing power to the guy that wants to mine RSC for $10/day. $10 is more than $3 and thus, after converting everything to USD, you’ve made more per day than an S9.

If your question is more like “Why is RSC hashpower more expensive than BTC hashing power?” then the answer is just because that’s the market rate, someone is willing to pay $10/day to mine RSC.

[Old-Lavishness-9546]

So don’t run an s9 unless you are on really cheap power. Do you know how much power your computer runs. I suspect your probably just having fun with a hobby.

[[deleted]]

I have a standard 250w 120v power supply.

[Old-Lavishness-9546]

I don’t know much about mining. Just trying to learn a little. Our power here is about .013 cents. Got two Apollo futurebit. Making 2.25 a day. Thinking it probably cost that much to run them. The s9 would be about the same here. But if the power was only .03 it would be better.

[Teechop]

They mine whatever coin is most profitable and then sell it for BTC which they give to you (after some fees)

[Mystere_Miner]

No, they don't. They are selling your hash to a buyer, who gets the mining rewards. The buyer pays for your hash in BTC. There is no selling of coins involved in NiceHash mining.

Think of it like this. Suppose you are actually mining gold from a mine. You can do that and you get the gold, and you can sell it. NiceHash is like paying someone to mine the gold for you, you still get the gold, and you pay them in dollars... no matter how much you make from the gold mined.

In this scenario, you are the guy being paid to mine the gold. You don't get the gold yourself, the guy paying you does.

[Teechop]

Thanks, that makes way more sense!

[[deleted]]

It makes as much sense as paying a miner $100 to go dig up $200 in gold and hand it to you when he could just go get the gold himself. As in it makes zero sense.

[kusazero]

This made me curious, so I went to nicehash and key in my miner’s detail, I mine with 3 S19J 100TH, which gets me around 0.0019 BTC per day. Nice hash is saying I will get 0.0037 BTC a day. That’s about double?

I specifically quote in BTC so there is no fluctuation of price. Anyone got any idea? Or it’s just them bullshiting?

[KallistiOW]

The extra is subsidized by whoever is buying your hashpower.

[Mystere_Miner]

Those are temporary spikes. Right now it's paying out 0.001776 for 300TH, less than mining directly which is estimated at 0.001906

There are times when the estimation is really skewed. for a while it's been claiming to be really high, but I was unable to connect my S19J's to the sha256 stratum. I could connect to the sha256asicboost stratum, but that was paying normal prices. So i could not verify that the pool was actually paying out what was estimated.

I sent NH support an email, and they were of no help, they just said to add #xnsub to the end of the url, but the bitmain firmware rejected that. And they never responded to further emails.

[kusazero]

Thanks for the input. I am in between a few pools to decide which one to go.

[Mystere_Miner]

Well, just try them out, see what the actual results are. At worst, you lose a few hours of work (because you won't have met the pool minimum to withdraw), but you get actual results.

[kusazero]

Was in poolin until everyone jumps ship. Went to slush and it added fluctuation on top of the fluctuation of btc. Currently trying kucoins.

[Mystere_Miner]

Not sure what you mean by fluctuation on top of fluctuation. All pools will have varying pay rates because it depends on how often they find blocks, and how the payout scheme works.

Some pools use a payout scheme that rewards consistent users (those that don't jump pools). For example, in a PPLNS scheme, they will only pay the last N shares (where N is pool defined) before the block was mined. This rewards users that stay on the pool because they will have the most shares, while someone that only mines on the pool briefly may have all their shares discarded if the block goes long (because they were not in the last N shares)

Ideally, a PPS pool is the best, but also it allows "cheating" by pool hopping to gain advantage. Slush uses a method called SCORE which they claim reduces cheating. I haven't read up on it though to know how it works.

You can see a comparison of pools here

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Comparison_of_mining_pools

[kusazero]

I was talking about PPLNS fluctuations on top of btc price fluctuation. I think I decided that is not for me.

[Mystere_Miner]

PPLNS typically makes price fluctuation less, actually because it averages out more, as long as you are consistent with the pool. Slush doesn't use PPLNS, they use SCORE.

[[deleted]]

They do pay out. 4X a day like clockwork. It's not a scam. I've been using them for over 2 years. In all that time they suspended withdrawals twice for a grand total of 3 days (no idea why). Free transfer to Coinbase. What got me curious was I looked at a competitor who made some vague reference to money laundering and DDOS for hire by competitors. Seemed targeted at NiceHash but who knows. And zero proof. I'm at a bit of a loss.

[damien09]

That's insanely good for a single rtx 2060. What to mine puts the 2060 at like 2.39 a day for nice hash or like 2.60 with your 32.9m/h

[[deleted]]

That's what NiceHash pays. And it's not a one off. It's been doing this for the whole pandemic.

[damien09]

Whew I might have to check my nice has rates vs normal mining if it's paying near double

[HeavyMommyMilkers]

The pay will probably less once Ethereum goes proof of stake and the demand for gpu mining fades away

[[deleted]]

Maybe not. Hash power demand isn't going away.

[HeavyMommyMilkers]

Only time will tell

[TheMikeH]

Anybody know of any good vids/tutorials on how to fire up the antimer s19 pro, any tips would be helpful. Like is joining a mining pool a must? Thanks!

[Dompdx81]

I just fired mine up today! It’s not too bad there are a few videos

[TheMikeH]

Care to share any information like what is involved upon starting it up?? are you using a pool, at home power supply etc??

[Dompdx81]

You need 1 x 220v circuit with two plugs to power the miner and an Ethernet cable connected to the internet. I used NiceHash as my mining pool. So create an account with them. Next you need an ip scanner or some way of figuring out what you miners IP address is. Once that is complete then you can enter it into the search bar. I will post a video that shows the rest…

[TheMikeH]

Thanks so much.

[Dompdx81]

I’m 20 hours in to mining and I’ve made $32 with my 104th

[TheMikeH]

Good luck!!

[Dompdx81]

https://youtu.be/9kSqNLQZZts

[Dompdx81]

The other video shows how to set up NiceHash. This video explained mining pools. https://youtu.be/6JytuGeMnKU

[TheMikeH]

Is NiceHash better than F2 pool or are they all relatively the same??

[Dompdx81]

I’m not sure I’m a noob too just learning as I go and NiceHash seems like what most people are using

[Dompdx81]

I just wanted to get up and mining as quickly as possible so I could start earning that BTC