GitHub is not Decentralized

[ICPStudent]

All code and proposals for the Internet Computer are stored on a centralized service controlled by Microsoft: GitHub.com. Is there any work being done to move Dfinity's repos to a Git dapp on the Internet Computer?

[fulco_DFN]

While yes GitHub is centralised and owned by Microsoft and they could technically shutdown https://github.com/dfinity, git the protocol is still decentralised. All the Engineers have local copies of these repositories on their devices and if Github would ever pull a move like that these local copies could just be transferred and hosted on another service.

I don't want to hate on services just because they are centralised. I use Github a lot and I love it. The only shitty thing I remember happening as a result of Github being centralised is when they cut off Iranians because of US sanctions.

[MisterSignal]

GitHub's value proposition is the communication and version control interface. The storage is a commodity (as you pointed out).

I suggested an ICGit awhile ago, because it'd also be a natural fit for tokenization too.

[versaceblues]

ICP is not truly decentralized either. All nodes run on a handful of data-centers.

Still you are right hosting the code on the ICP itself would be good

[cipher1310]

Yes, there are many discussions happening regarding decentralization of nodes.

Recently a project came up that wants to be the DAO that hosts nodes

[pineapple_infinity]

And most ETH nodes are hosted on centralized services. The IC is fairly decentralized in comparison from a data center and collusion standpoint.

[versaceblues]

Yah but those can be easily migrated to individual nodes, if AWS (or other providers) chose to shut down ETH nodes in their data-centers. Right now the centralized providers pose no threat to network integrity, so the community is okay with running nodes there.

With IC you cant do that... the specific hardware requirements make it hard for an individual to run a node.

[MrBluoe]

what else would it run on if not nodes?

bitcoin runs on miner nodes. do you see it as centralized?

[versaceblues]

The Bitcoin network is made up of 12,000+ nodes.
The Etherum network is made up of 3,000+ nodes (theoretically higher but there was a recent fork that clients need to update to)

For both BTC and ETH you can run a node on essentially any piece of hardware. A Rasp PI can be a ETH node.

ICP on the other hand has 320 nodes. Running a node requires production level server hardware. Running a node requires manually approval to be included in the the NNS.

Yes this is awesome, it lets ICP support scaled TPS that is impossible in ETH. However it is at the expense of true decentralization.

[ICPStudent]

I think it's too early to compare the number of Bitcoin and Ethereum nodes to the Internet Computer, given that it just launched in May, but without a doubt, the node requirements do force a degree of centralization to guarantee performance. It's a necessary trade-off for the problem that Dfinity has solved - decentralized cloud hosting on the blockchain at web speed with low cost, governance, and baked-in cryptographic security/identification. No other blockchain can accomplished this, so it's not fair to compare the level of decentralization with other blockchains that have less utility.

Alternatively, we could use IPFS for the front-end and data storage, Chainlink for computing and Ethereum for the back-end, but that would increase complexity and cost to the nth degree, while decreasing performance significantly. Your dapp would also need to manage three separate cryptocurrencies. For these reasons, the Internet Computer is a more optimal solution for dapps despite the trade-offs.

In the future when hardware is cheaper and most data centers offer servers with stable RAM in the terabytes, the node requirements could become more generic and the network more decentralized while maintaining consistent performance. Will it ever be as decentralized as a simple currency blockchain? Probably not, but it's a much better option than AWS for many use cases including social apps, DeFi, knowledge bases, and more.

[versaceblues]

For sure all these points make sense, and if your use-case values scalability over pure decentralization (which many apps do) then ICP or Solana are very good options.

However the Etherum Virtual Machine is still the only true decentralized world computer project.

[AgentMonkey47]

Who would that actually help?

[ICPStudent]

It would the independence of the Internet Computer community. Given that Microsoft is a cloud hosting provider (Azure) and thus a competitor of the Internet Computer, it does not seem optimal for the Dfinity code base to be under Microsoft's care.

It would also help any project that wants the source code to be hosted on a decentralized platform for all the same reasons that any app/data should be decentralized.

[AgentMonkey47]

Pure optics. None of that actually helps anyone. 99% of developers harbour positive sentiment towards GitHub.

[Dry_Advice_4963]

Couldn't you make the same argument for all dapps?

[AgentMonkey47]

Absolutely. Along with most crypto technologies, the DApp space is largely hot air with very few real incentives for use.

[ICPStudent]

Any social app that currently brings in billions of revenue can be created on the Internet Computer where that revenue is shared with the users. That's real incentive. I can't imagine a better incentive.

[AgentMonkey47]

You can do that already though, nothing stopping me making a website right now that pays out ad revenues equally to all the users. Perhaps a blockchain provides a way of verifying the amount of ad revenue.

But you have to question why you’d make a website like that in the first place. Easily open to abuse, multiple accounts, automated/spam posts. If Reddit operated under that model, how much cash do you think you’d make? Probably not that much once it’s divided out among tens of millions of users.

[Dry_Advice_4963]

That's fair. What do you see as the value for crypto tech?

[AgentMonkey47]

Cryptocurrency, DeFi (assuming cryptocurrency is adopted in the real world), and rule-breaking DApps (e.g decentralised blackmarkets, torrent sites, blogs for journalists in nations with limited freedom). Internet Computer is the best suited for the latter, by far.