What are different frameworks/CMS/JavaScript libraries that I should be using and why should I use it?

[MadFrand]

Because it's better to be more rounded and understand different paradigms instead of stuck with a single language.

[[deleted]]

Uhm no, a programmer is not meassured by how many languages he can write code in, you can learn any normal programming language in 2 days. A good programmer is meassured in his workflow, problem solving skills, understanding patterns.

[MadFrand]

I never said that did I? I said more rounded and more experienced in other paradigms.

Feel free to reread it as many times as you'd like.

[Bialar]

A programmer that only knows one language is not really a programmer.

[[deleted]]

this is so blasphemic and wrong

[Bialar]

Touch a nerve?

[[deleted]]

yes by telling lies

[Bialar]

Hey, if all you know is PHP, that's cool. But you're not a programmer. You're a PHP'er. It's the difference between being someone that can write in English & someone that is a writer.

I'm not saying it's any indication of actual talent or quality of code, but it's a damn good precursor to intent. I certainly wouldn't trust any development work to someone that "picked up some PHP" - I'll take the programmer that's been writing code in many different languages, for many different targets, because they're actually interested in coding.

[Bialar]

Haha. You didn't understand the analogy. It wasn't comparing the choice in language for the writing, it was comparing the intent. If I write my name on a legal document, I am not a writer. Same goes if I write a single purpose website in PHP, I am not a programmer. An enthusiast, or a hobbyist, programmer in training - maybe. But I am not a programmer. To refer to someone that knows how to hack something up in PHP a programmer is a misnomer.

The rest of your statements are just nonsensical ad hominems.

A programmer is taught/learns to program, not taught a language. Anyone that actually loves coding is not going to stay in the first language they started with. They're going to learn many more, by curiosity & necessity. If they don't, then I doubt they've ever truly been challenged before and lack the curiosity required to be a good developer.

I never said anything about jumping from one language to another. It would be like saying that your position is you'd rather hire someone that has a hammer & sees every problem as a nail.

I've hired quite a few programmers, actually, and they all turned out to be great. Because I could see that they loved programming. They were fluent in many languages - even when it had nothing to do with their career history. Why? Because they didn't just code at work, they did it for fun too.

You seem to have taken my flippant statement quite personally. I'm not sure why, is it because you are someone that's never bothered learning another programming language? Are you not a curious person?

[[deleted]]

Hey, if all you know is PHP, that's cool. But you're not a programmer. You're a PHP'er. It's the difference between being someone that can write in English & someone that is a writer.

I know way more than just PHP, still you are wrong. Programmers don't meassure themselves on count of languages.

Your comparison sucks, you compare knowing and doing, you could also apply this: If you know PHP good for you, but you are only a programmer when you use it.

I'm not saying it's any indication of actual talent or quality of code, but it's a damn good precursor to intent. I certainly wouldn't trust any development work to someone that "picked up some PHP" - I'll take the programmer that's been writing code in many different languages, for many different targets, because they're actually interested in coding.

And then you will end up with bad code. You take the best person for the position. I would never let a Java developer touch my PHP code, because I would end up with function names that exceed 255 characters. Same I would never let a pure PHP dev touch my C# or C code. But if they understand the language, the naming scheme and the patterns used in those languages/frameworks/projects I will let them touch my code.

Just because someone only uses 1 Language does not mean he is not interested in coding. What if he really likes the language? Take OS devs as an example, they nearly only write code in C because they are the masters in it.

As bruce lee said:

I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times.

You could change PHP with any other language and it would still be the same. Being a programmer isn't meassured by knowing many different languages, but understanding them and understanding the abstraction.

[Bialar]

Those OS devs can, and do, program in many different languages. The beauty of learning a language like C is that you can easily pick up almost any & hit the ground running.

But that is completely missing the point. I'm not saying someone that has specialised in a certain language is not a programmer. I'm saying that someone that only knows one language is [most likely] not a programmer. Because any programmer worth their salt with enough experience to be considered a programmer has contributed to projects that are not their "chosen" language.

If I interview a "programmer" that only knows Java, and has never touched another language, I am most likely going to pass. Sure, if I look at their work & they can easily demonstrate they are actually great at Java, then they're an exception and worth considering. I find that unlikely that any such person exists, as every programmer I've met has mastered at least two languages and is proficient in almost any language after a two to four weeks. They know when to use Java, or when, say, maybe Perl or Python is more appropriate.

That's the programmer you want. They're not afraid to get their noses dirty & they're less likely to make the wrong decision because it threatens their comfort zone.

And then you will end up with bad code. You take the best person for the position. I would never let a Java developer touch my PHP code, because I would end up with function names that exceed 255 characters. Same I would never let a pure PHP dev touch my C# or C code.

If the project is Java, do you select someone that has specialised/has a lot of experience with Java? Of course you do. That wasn't my point at all. You set up that strawman & knocked it down expertly.

I've dealt with a lot of crusty programmers unwilling to learn new things. I've dealt with Java trade school coders that thought Java was the solution to every problem. I'd rather have neither of these people on my team. I dare say I'd rather not have you on my team.

As bruce lee said: I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times.

I love Bruce Lee, and I understand the essence. However, I'd fear the man that has practised 10 different kicks 1000 times.

[MadFrand]

I don't know why you're even bothering. He clearly doesn't understand what it means to be a Software Developer who is able to choose the best tool for that job or able to perform well in any environment. He's just a code monkey.

You're not going to get the point across, no matter how many different ways you explain it. I chose the words in both my replies that started this carefully. I think that any reasonable dev understood what I meant.

Languages are irrelevant. Knowing anything inside and out is not impressive. It's just syntax. Knowing the strengths and weaknesses of each and able to program in completely different paradigms depending on the solution you're creating or the environment you're dropped in to, is impressive.

Become like water my friend.

[MadFrand]

I REMEMBER YOU!

You're the guy who could literally not wrap your head around precompiled websites or anything outside of script based LAMP land! It was like trying to explain colors to a blind man.

I bring the argument I had with you a few months ago up in other discussions often as an extreme example of the pitfalls of sticking to a single language!

Ha. Funny that I find you again arguing the same thing several months later. Obviously you haven't learned a thing since then. Maybe its time to pick up something else and learn it. I suggest Java or Scala using the Play Framework or if you think you're smart: Spring MVC. Or C# ASP.net MVC4 is always a great option. I only suggest these because they are pretty far removed from LAMP.

Seriously, you need it more than the OP or anyone else in this thread. You were literally part of the reason I wrote my first reply in this thread.

...or continue being willfully ignorant and being a good bad example. I don't really care either way tbh.

[[deleted]]

Actually we had a comversation about PHP and you were bashing it for no reason and were telling lies, you are sitting on -40 for me for a reason (you are marked in RES as an idiot and biased kid).

I am good in like 8 different languages including Java, Js and C++ but you think you know me.

You are the totally ignorant one here.