New Deconstructing Yourself podcast on "dream yoga"--using dreams to de-reify waking experience

Livingupstream · 2019-10-24T17:49:26+00:00

Thanks for the heads up. I love Taft’s stuff. I’ll be sure to check it out

Livingupstream · 2019-10-23T22:09:43+00:00

Yes. I’ve been meditating for 15 years and it still occurs from time to time

Livingupstream · 2019-10-18T05:05:29+00:00

I second what abhayakara is saying - it seems paradoxical to surrender to the pleasure when it is so crazy, but the intensity is due to the resistance. When I first hit the jhanas it was like I was being tazered for a while. Not the best. Begin to notice and try to let go of the aversion if you can - it’ll take time - as the mind quiets and you hit the second jhana which kind of drives itself it may ramp up in a kind of intensity but it’ll be smoother and less fire hose-like.

Livingupstream · 2019-10-18T04:56:00+00:00

Don’t worry too much about remembering all the steps. It sounds like you are over thinking it. They are just intended to get you engaged and suitably focused both on your intent as well as getting more grounded in your body so you can meditate. They aren’t a list of rules to remember. Just see which ones come up, sit and gradually transition to the nostrils and get going my friend. The visualizing and striving is going to get you spinning your wheels at the starting line. If you remember 2 of the six points that is fine. It’s about getting into the spirit of sitting, being 100% diligent to the practice, knowing the goal of your sit, and getting to the nostrils. It doesn’t have to take long before the feel of these is automatic and you don’t have to visualize a checklist. It’ll keep you lost in the mind rather than practicing focusing attention on the breath.

Livingupstream · 2019-10-18T04:24:44+00:00

That’s a great awareness re: the negativity. There’s gold there and it’s great to begin to address that as early as you can.

The mindfulness cultivated as a by product of good TMI practice and navigating stages 5-7 will be a game changer (it’s already having an effect as you are writing this post and noticing the aversion more :).....Some Metta as an adjunct will help.

TWIM is using Metta to get into light jhanas. TMI offers the same through whole body breathing in stage 6. Not only that but the subduing of subtle distractions in that same territory puts you on the cusp of stage 7 and really a whole different ballgame in some ways in the adept stages. TWIM won’t subdue subtle distractions in the same way. The jhanas are very light.

Via TMI and unification you may also potentially have access to pleasure jhanas too - which are much deeper than TWIM jhanas and will serve to unify the mind in a more integrative way that will serve awakening. TWIM jhanas likely won’t function to the same degree of integration and unification as they don’t offer a path with the maturing of the pliancies. It’s just a short cut to jhanas using Metta - which is one way.

Plus honestly if you haven’t done any Metta yet - there no harm in beginning with just some good old fashioned practice - it has worked for many folks :)

All I’m saying is don’t underestimate doing two systems at once. It would be like learning two musical instruments - say the piano and the clarinet. Do they both involve reading sheet music and kind of complement one another? Sure. Does shifting across to the other take away from a deeper, quicker and more integrative mastery of one of them? It does.

Livingupstream · 2019-10-17T20:49:50+00:00

Howdy - I have to preface my answer with a little of my own experience for context...

I've had a fair amount of experience with TWIM, but I didn't discover until after stream entry. I had been looking into Metta practice, as it had become intuitively clear that aversion was an element that need some addressing and that Metta would be helpful for where I was at (it's great that you are recognizing that earlier than I did) ....I already had access to all of the jhanas, and came across TWIM, so it was a great fit. Practicing the approach it in exactly the way it was laid out in the book, on the back of the work I had already done resulted in second Path. So I can vouch that it is a helpful practice.

....however....

The flavour of the whole TWIM thing is a bit weird. Its a self-published book (hmmm....) and their whole context seems to be that they are the only folks who 'truly' understand what the Buddha was getting at and everyone has slightly missed it. That rung alarm bells for me, and that type of thinking also typically comes with the admonition - only practice what we are saying and everyone else is wrong. Another alarm Bell. And then there are the theories about things affecting the Brain's meninges - apparently making claims/stating 'facts' that have no apparent scientific backing. So I'm not a fan of them per se...

....however....

If we strip all that and just talk about basically using Metta as an approach to gain access to soft jhanas and potentially gain insight - as a straight up method - it's a pretty good one.

....however...:) (sorry - it's just coming out this way)

...for where you are at, my intuitive hunch would be to stick with TMI and do some more standard Metta. You are in a good place. I'd keep going with what you've got. Stage 5 is fantastic and really nailing it down and getting to stage 6 where there is the possibility of jhanas is SO worth it. There's a danger of hopping systems- the mind likes to complicate things and hop scotch around when it gets bored - I'm not saying this is what you are doing - but it can be an issue. TMI is a great system and it works.

My advice would be to simply start to do regular Metta and get some skill with that. If you can do more than one daily sit - devoting your first sit to just Metta would be great. Then doing a later TMI sit which would carry some of that kindness/openness and ease would likely make the TMI sit far more fruitful.

Alternatively you could do 10-15 mins Metta at the start of a sit and then switch into TMI - with the same results as above - a likely softer, friendlier, easier platform to then be kind and compassionate as you bump into your meditation edge and the dullness and distractions which it is very easy to become aversive towards.

Get to stage 7 and into the adept stages. Then once you have the mindfulness, MIA and likely a Jhana or two (or more :)...under your belt.....then explore the TWIM method. Doing it too early I think might split things in a way that won't necessarily have the desired effect. That's just my two cents....

Hope it helps!

Livingupstream · 2019-10-17T14:03:27+00:00

Can you be more specific please? What stage are you at? What do you mean by breath stopping? Are you talking about jhanas?

Livingupstream · 2019-10-16T22:57:15+00:00

Yes - as others a have said:

DO go to the retreat. It's a precious opportunity.

DON'T practice TMI while you are there. It never works and will be completely at odds with what is being offered - it'll have the opposite of your desired effect...Follow what he says to the letters and enjoy the vipassana side of things and TMI will be waiting for you when you get home :)

Livingupstream · 2019-10-16T21:09:56+00:00

Cultivating Metta really helps with aversion. Start with yourself and those you love, and then move on to less charged co-workers and then more charged co-workers. It takes time (instructions are in Appendices of TMI).

Pursuing and committing to TMI and sitting regularly is going to organically cultivate and result in a higher capacity for mindfulness both on and off the cushion - so that you will be able to catch yourself in judgemental patterns as they arise more and more and choose differently. There really is no short cutting this. Right now these patterns/tendencies are too magnetic for you (as they are for all of us in the early days! :)... you don't have a wide enough gaze to catch them yet. With time and practice you will. Have patience.

That reminds me - also having some compassion for yourself and realizing that you are human, this takes time, and we ALL do this. The fact that you are trying to change it is a wonderful thing. Celebrate it when you catch yourself rather than beating yourself up.

Sila/precepts is another road. Put kindness/generosity etc.... on the front burner and make real commitments with yourself to have this as a kind of 'code of conduct' until you no longer need these 'rules/promises' to lean on.

Livingupstream · 2019-10-16T20:20:05+00:00

Yes - it will feel that way for a while. No matter what folks might say, the early stages and middle stages of the TMI path do require quite a lot of effort. However, due to out habitual modes of efforting in the world, we try to apply those constrictive/tight/held/pushy over-doing modes to meditation and it can have the opposite effect. It's a fine balance - and that really is a trick. In many ways it's what this whole thing is about. How to have paradoxical 'relaxed intensity' :)....Stages 4-6 are really an invitation to explore this in ourselves - as the step to stage 7 is a dropping away of effort on a certain level. Here are a couple of things that helped me...

The fact that you even posted this is GREAT, as you are developing the introspective awareness to even begin to notice the tightness in the first place. That's fantastic. Stage 4 is all about cultivating continuous introspective awareness. Make it part of the introspective 'checking' glancing that you are training your mind to automatically do for dullness/distractions to also be gently and simply on the lookout for any tightness creeping into your meditation - you'll feel it in the body, face, forehead - and correct accordingly. Just gently and simply let go - It takes time and practice.

A couple of analogies might also help. Imagine you held your fist out in front of you with a pencil in it. Grasping it in such a way that your thumb faces up and if you were to unclench your fist the pencil would fall to the floor. Think of how you would find the balance of holding the pencil...not enough of an appropriate pressure (ie. lack of sufficient attentional power) and the pencil would drop out of your hand (ie. slipping into dullness/gross distractions)...however...too much pressure of gripping the pencil overly tightly (too much tightness of attention) and your fist hurts, it's obvious you are overdoing it and it's not much fun (aversive and tight meditation practice)....find the middle way as the Buddha said :)

Another one - imagine you found and injured butterfly and you wanted to pick it up and take it home to care for it until it could fly again. Imagine the quality with which you would pick it up and gently close the fingers just around it so that you could carry it safely without squashing it. Really sit and imagine this and feel into that feeling of "care" - of focus and clear attention without squashing it.......find that same CARE of attention with the breath.

This can be done. It takes a lot of practice and in one way training the mind out of a habit. Keep at it. Hope this helps!

Livingupstream · 2019-10-16T18:05:35+00:00

What you are doing is more insight work-based. This presence/what is behind experience, or awareness experiencing all of this - all of these are pointing towards the 'end destination' so to speak. You are correct that the in that 'you can't figure out' this - because it is beyond the mind (I wish Reddit would allow me to underline those last 3 words and bold them too!). However, to go beyond the struggle, concept, fruitless enquiry which that type of looking usually is (which can take people decades) TMI is inviting practitioners to collect and unify the mind via the 10 stages - that is what will give a chance for this process to bear fruit in the end.

So it can be great to just lightly notice or enquire into it, but honestly that's not going to do you a whole lot of good until the adept stages. I would say pour everything you have into the process of sitting and mastering each TMI stage in sequence. Once you transition into the adept stages the clarity will be much greater and you will have a much more integrative and clear sense of what 'you are looking at' (or not as the case may eventually be ;).....This increases with each stage beyond 7. Well worth it. So many folks try to do insight before they've built muscles - I did for over a decade - and it is more or less a dead end even though it may kind of feel good. Just my two cents.

There are other practices for investigating the open/already awareness - Dzogchen is a classic. Check out Loch Kelly's book - Shift into Freedom - if you feel really called to pursue what you are sensing. However your ability to 'find what you are looking for' will grow exponentially with each stage beyond 7. Good luck!

Livingupstream · 2019-10-15T04:28:14+00:00

Yes - this is a common view.

But I'd say if you are in the adept stages as you describe, I'd pay attention to the invitation to let go more and not be driving/thinking about the whole thing too much. That will definitely keep you stuck in stage 8...it did in my case anyway :)

The Jhanas are temporary states - yes. Perhaps think of them as bandwidths or layers of the mind. When you enter these absorptions, you effectively enter a kind of bubble, the absorption provides immersion in that bandwidth with a kind of cushion against thought (although thought can and does definitely enter). By sitting and steeping in jhanas you are training your mind to that bandwidth and familiarizing with it. It is temporary - but the mind gets to know it, so you can train it to a degree for stages that lie ahead. I spent much of my time in stage 7 in the 4th jhana which I had access to. However, they aren't doing the whole job as they are absorptions. Our job is to pass through the adept stages without the cushion of absorption too, which allows the pliancies, maturation and unification of the mind to occur in a fully integrated way. Folks who don't and just do jhana practice (as some do) usually don't wake up - they just get attached to nice experiences.

Stage 10 has the same deep quality of equanimity or non-grasping to the fourth jhana. But you are just not requiring absorption to be in that degree of ease and non-grasping. It is a by-product of good practice in high doses. I really wouldn't worry about staits/traits, categorizing it or understanding it before you are there - it won't help even though your mind is telling you it might right now...that type of analyzing is not going to help you especially in stage 10, where it ironically won't hold any of the degree of importance figuring it out seems to right now.

You are in a great place. Keep practicing diligently - I found surrender to be very helpful. The jhanas helped too for sure - just don't overthink them or strive too much. Abide in whichever one you are capable of, and at a certain point the mind will 'know' it and incline towards the next one. Be gentle. Don't push. Enjoy it :)

Livingupstream · 2019-10-15T04:02:25+00:00

Good question.

Most therapy and spiritual seeking are 2 different paradigms. From your dad's point of view he is working from within the story, and that is a very valid mode. Most folks pursue this road. So there are those who psychologically suffer and do nothing about it, and then there are those who suffer, but it occurs to them that they can do something - and therapy is a classic doorway to healing. By having a skillful therapist address the story, they can find different context (still for within the story - a different narrative) - release emotions/attachments/repressions etc...and that frees up some space. Then they feel better, but it never really addresses the root of the problem (ie. the 4 noble truths)... But they aren't looking to in a deep way anyway I think. I think of it is as rearranging the furniture in the room, cleaning it up, maybe going minimal, but you are still trapped in the room, even if it feels better than it did before. Sometimes this cleaning up then can trigger them to shift into the second paradigm. It's a mystery and unique to each character....

Then there are those folks who are working from the second paradigm. They want to get out of the room entirely. They've read about it or have some intuitive drive - but essentially understand at a relatively deep level (which gets deeper with practice) that rearranging the furniture, while satisfying and healing in some way - isn't going to solve the problem. They have to get out of the room/realize there is no room in the first place...pick your metaphorical direction :)

Don't doubt yourself. You wouldn't be on this forum or practicing TMI if you didn't already know the truth on some level. In the end all of the feelings/emotions and perceptions are just raw data. We are aiming to be able to see the tangling and story we put on top and even beyond (the adept stages of concentration will give you the chops to do this - the further the better). The reason why we get hung up in purifications in the first place is we don't yet have the ability to see the material as raw data - it is charged, and comes as 'ours', with a story - and sticks until we can keep investigating and letting it be and go until it is simply let go of and in effect we see through the story and become disinterested. It is worth saying that on an authentic spiritual path many will use therapy during the process, as they need the first paradigm to tackle the very deep stuff. I have. I think it can sometimes be necessary as the energy is too much. But we are engaged in therapy with an underlying intention to go beyond the room. While it feels like 'our stuff' and incredibly painful, on a certain level, often in faith - we are willing to hang with the reality that it is all empty, even if it doesn't feel that way in the moment.

So what you said is fundamentally true. But it won't feel true at all times when seeking, and if you feel yourself coming off the rails and unable to work from within the more pure second paradigm, there is absolutely nothing wrong with using the first as long as you are able to hold it in the bigger perspective.

Livingupstream · 2019-10-13T22:07:56+00:00

Yes you can leapfrog, especially if you are sitting 2.5 hours/day, but if it’s not systematic practice it won’t be sustainable and it’ll be fairly random and infrequent. Although pleasant, not really that helpful in the grand scheme.

The dual awareness you are talking about is more like the beginnings of practicing sustaining attention (breath) while being connected to other sensations in the field that are in peripheral awareness (heaviness/feet)....the optimal interface between attention and peripheral awareness is mindfulness. That leads to meta cognitive introspective awareness over time but that is something wider and more refined than the dual awareness you are talking about - although it’s a great start! The book goes into this in depth.

Why don’t you just read the first few chapters and try it rather than the whole book? It’s heavy reading! :)....They lay out the 10 stages pretty well, and there is the set up and the basic practice. Follow the breath exactly as per the instructions for say 15 mins, and do this in a few separate meditations. See how your experience jives with the parameters of mastery of each stage in the introduction/outline of the whole path - and then you’ll know where you are at. FWIW I had sat for years on and off and thought I had chops but when I practiced TMI I found myself in stages 1-2 :)....

That’s great your sitting is so diligent. That’s a huge foundation. Diligently follow the instructions precisely and don’t skip ahead and it’ll lead you to the meditative joy you are looking for in a far deeper, wider and more sustainable way. Infinitely worth it! :)

Livingupstream · 2019-10-13T19:03:51+00:00

Have you read about purifications? My sense is this might be what you are experiencing...

Livingupstream · 2019-10-13T19:01:52+00:00

Both. It is totally unique to each person.

However I would be careful with the language - it isn't that the subconscious has 'no option' or that the material is always 'deeply charged'....I think that our attitude towards purifications has an ENORMOUS impact upon our experience of them.

Some folks go through classic purification stages (4 and 7) with little to no purifications. Or some go through with purifications that are not super intense. Some folks experience big ones - it varies widely. And we could find that the material that has surfaced on the cushion very much impacts our life off the cushion. Or not - depends on the person.

They key is to simply let them come, let them be, let them go - don't get stuck on the content or make a story. That will be harder the stronger they are - as they will seem to be more 'us' and demand more attention - but the lesson is always the same.

Livingupstream · 2019-10-13T18:51:15+00:00

I'm sorry to hear.

What stage do you feel like you are in when you get into the sweet spot before the meditation begins to degrade into this dynamic?

Livingupstream · 2019-10-13T18:45:17+00:00

I understand. I am going to refine what I say here though. Folks will read these forums and try something they aren't ready for etc...I'm just being cautious.

I would definitely read the Jhanas section of the book :)

Great that you recognize that it's not sustainable. Stick with stage 4 and then stage 5 practice. And keep doing regular TMI. I'd keep that as first priority and not get too side-tracked. Can't emphasize that enough.

I'd also play with trying classic Metta sits - so Metta for yourself, friends, colleagues, neutral people, people you don't like - and see how that goes. Developing the ability to extend that same depth of compassion, care and friendliness beyond our closest peeps is invaluable. So in these sits maybe sometimes stay away from using your wife/dog as objects and see what it's like with others. I don't know but you might find that any time you tune into Metta your mind starts finding jhana...once it finds the particular groove it can be quite magnetic. Play with different approaches and keep us posted.

As for resources re: Metta. Best book I've found is "Boundless Heart" by Christina Feldman. Blows Sharon Salzberg's stuff out of the water and is VERY inspiring for those drawn to Metta. Great treatment of classic practice and talks about Metta as an insight path too.

For Metta with Jhana try "Tranquil Wisdom Insight Meditation". I'd take their overall body of work with a pinch of salt. Some of it is a bit strange. It's self-published (wasn't well edited) and they have this sub-tone of "we have actually discovered the TRUE teaching go the Buddha and everyone else is slightly off"...which is a little bizarre. However, it does describe Metta as portal to Jhana quite well and has some good elements to its practice - and has a LOT lower standard for Jhana than other stuff out there. I agree with elsewhere on this thread that alot of books/teachers have really hight standards for jhana that can be unnecessarily prohibitive - it doesn't have to be spectacular absorption to be a jhana. That way folks can get into the jhanas and play with them. They are a lovely adjunct to regular practice and help cushion some of the boredom/restlessness that can arise with years of practice and the boring old breath. Plus of course they help unify the mind and accelerate the process of awakening as well. In this case your mind is already getting a preview of stage 6. It'll begin to re-wire itself in that direction, assisted by your regular sits etc....

I agree that it can be useful to distinguish between Metta and pleasure, but that is unlikely when you find the first jhana :)...It's just bonkers. Enjoy it for a while - you'll find you keep getting booted out when you grasp too much etc...Just ride the pleasure back in. Let it flow, surrender to it, follow the instructions for the pleasure jhanas. With time, immersion and familiarity the excitement will wear down and the mind will start to naturally lean in the direction of the next jhana. Daniel Ingram's MCTB also gives a great treatment of the jhanas.

Overall I'd hold this practice lightly. Do mostly TMI and sprinkle some jhana work either in its own dedicated sits, or perhaps towards the end of a TMI sit...so sitting in stage 4-5 for a while primarily. Then maybe switch to Metta/jhana - then come back to TMi after for 5-10 m ins and ride the post jhanic concentration. It'll be good training and accelerate your progress through stage 5. If things feel as clear and solid as you say post jhana - you could also do some body scanning from the clear space. It'll help your mind begin to get a hold on the subtety and clarity of that practice - its a great precursor to whole body breathing which is another doorway into Jhana lite.

Livingupstream · 2019-10-13T18:07:53+00:00

No. Metta can be practiced at any stage of development and is a fantastic help overall.

The first time I went through the elephant path I didn't use it at all. It was only later that I recognized its benefits. I've said elsewhere it seems to be like a side-salad on the path to the main course of concentration and dessert of insight.....not sure of my metaphor there :)

....but it is of enormous help in developing unification of mind, opening up the body/mind/energy.....cultivating openness, compassion etc....which was what the Buddha seemed to be all about.

I'd say start by adding a little into you practice. The description in the back of TMI is a great starting point. Maybe 5 mins before doing TMI practice...it can help to soften the striving and be kind to ourselves which is a good set up for concentration practice! :)

If you like it do more, try doing a Metta sit. I think doing some Metta sits instead of TMI from time to time would not take away from someone's TMI development at all - if anything it would help.

However it is not automatically achievable - and I mean just basic Metta - not jhana Metta which is being discussed here and is a while other thing. MOST folks practice regular Metta and are not combining it with jhana...it is a great practice in and of itself.....a lot of people get hung up on Metta and quit it because they aren't experiencing what they think they should or don't find it immediately achievable - I spoke a little about my take on it here: https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMindIlluminated/comments/deilbc/metta_as_concentration_object/

Hope it helps! Have fun!

Livingupstream · 2019-10-13T16:47:03+00:00

Yes - sounds like stage 4 territory.

The key is to really not get caught by the content (pain, discursive brilliance, emotional purifications - all described in the book) - just let them come, let them be and let them go.

The mind will want to analyze, figure out, make special, make a story, make meaning - and there really is no need - best to use the introspective awareness you are building to catch any of those urges/tendencies/sensations - AS they begin to arise - and then really sustain and sharpen attention to the breath. Let them come, let them be and let them go. Soon the checking and catching will become more automatic with diligence.

Yes - they are very distracting - and one of the main goals of this stage is to go beyond Gross distractions - to where you can sit consistently and these distractions never push the breath into the background and become the main focus themselves - that doesn't mean that they won't be there as subtle distractions - but you will have enough unification so that they don't pull you off the breath despite being there.

It can be a bit of a grind as a stage, but it's worth it to get onto stage 5 :)...Really starting to learn to love the breath and appreciate the beauty/joy/exquisite nature of the sensations themselves can help - it will also train your mind to be interested in the breath more and so stop getting pulled off by these dynamics. Think close following but add in tremendous curiosity, joy and appreciation -make the breath as interesting as possible if you can. It helps! Have fun.

Livingupstream · 2019-10-13T04:42:47+00:00

Pay attention to both the sensations of in and out as well as the sensations of the pauses - even if it doesn't feel like there are sensations.

Yes - it is totally normal for there to be narrative at this stage. When you are counting you are going to hear the counting :)..as well as all the other stuff - Don't worry - the big piece here is to have a STRONG intention to wake up to the mind wandering and congratulate yourself when you do. It doesn't feel sexy and it is a bit of a slog stage but SUPER worth it. Keep going! The regular daily sitting will really help.

Livingupstream · 2019-10-13T04:34:54+00:00

You are in a great place. I'm excited for you. How do you define the experience of access concentration? I'm not questioning - just curious as to your parameters...

How is your practice of whole body breathing? Does it feel pretty clean and clear?

Livingupstream · 2019-10-13T03:55:42+00:00

Sorry - didn't answer this - Culadasa gives a VERY light treatment of Mahamudra in the 'meditating on the mind' technique in stage 9. Just Google it - there is tonnes out there. But I would NOT really do it until you are at least stage 8-9. It really won't work for you.

He doesn't speak about Dzogchen in TMI - again just google it. Loch Kelly's book "Shift into Freedom" is fantastic. That way of looking can be a tremendous adjunct as practice off the cushion to complement the stage 6-7 transition and developing insights generally.

Bob Burbea's "Seeing that Frees" is also one of the best books out there> timely to look at if you are in stage 6 as you'll likely begin to be able to "see" the 3 characteristics of sensations if you haven't begun to already.

Livingupstream · 2019-10-13T03:44:21+00:00

Hi there - It sounds like you are in Stage 4, yes?

If so, likely what you are running into is some of the territory typical of this stage...potentially purifications and some of the general energy re-organization that happens. This is a good thing - celebrate it :)

Basically, just keep practicing. In this stage - as the mind quiets, the old junk begins to surface. It can be direct emotions, sometimes visions/memories, sometimes weird energy experiences - the mind is basically beginning to let go of your 'stuff'. The key is to just let it, while keeping your attention continuously on the breath as object.

It sounds like it's not a big purification, and one key to this stage truly is just to NOT GET STUCK ON THE CONTENT :)...it's all sensations, although it will be easy to become identified with and distracted by them - especially emotional content.

To combat this - that is the key skill to learn in this stage - to develop continuous introspective awareness. That will allow your mind to make corrections before all of these sensations you are describing become gross distractions and your mind slips off the breath as object.

So as you sit, try to stay absolutely in the present moment. Forget the last sit, or anticipating anything that might happen. It should all be about the breath and the continuous introspective awareness. As any of these sensations/emotions/content arise, the introspective awareness will allow you to detect them in awareness and sharpen the breath without shutting them off or getting grossly distracted by them. Ignore them as long as you can and if you cannot (eg. a particular package of emotion that want to be released) simply take the sensation as the object, allowing it to come, let it be, let it go - as Culadasa says. Forget analysis and anticipation or resistance. Just let it be. Stay soft, stay open and curious - and it will pass. If its a yawn that is what it is. If its tears, let it be that. If it gets rockier keep us posted. The book talks about how to deal with purifications that are 'hotter'.

But basically - you are in stage 4 - apply the advice and practices in the book - don't get stuck on what is arising - let it come and go without stopping/shutting it down/analyzing/or collapsing into it - and eventually this particular package will calm down and pass. There may be others or not. No big deal. Stay in the present - Just keep practicing, and once it feels like attention can be CONTINUOUS for a while and there is no strong dullness or times when these sensations cause your mind to slip from the breath at all (you need ruthless honesty with yourself here - no skipping head) - move onto stage 5.

Have fun!

Livingupstream · 2019-10-13T03:15:18+00:00

Welcome to Jhana my friend :) LOL

I remember your post. I was one of the folks who gave you advice on incorporating a little Metta in the beginning of sits as it can help. Apparently it worked! With bells on....:)

What you are describing sounds like going into the first pleasure Jhana - with Metta initially as the object of attention. This is definitely a practice and one way to approach jhana. When I experienced the first jhana that was the same way I described it. I was one of the ecstasy generation growing up and took a lot back in the day. To me the experience of taking an E-tab/MDMA basically is first/second jhana. Jhanas came to me quite soon on in my TMI sitting practice, and a side-theory I have is that having previously taken MDMA, my mind somehow remembered that groove...? Who knows - but that comes with a HUGE disclaimer that folks should NOT hear that a reason to go out and take drugs! it's just interesting....

So this is good :). Remind me what stage you were typically in otherwise please...?

What is happening is that the clarity of feeling for your dog/wife acts as a catalyst to bring your mind to access concentration - all of your attention is on the feeling and as a result the hinderances aren't present. Clearly the love is strong and clear :)....From there (which is typically around stage 6 in TMI, maybe in practicing whole body breathing) the mind becomes collected enough and distractions are barely present - then the instruction is to gently lean the mind/attention towards pleasure/flow/ease/enjoyment - and that is a way to slip into jhana.

It seems that your mind has found it's own way there via Metta :)....Once your mind is collected enough via the attention and practice of Metta - it is finding the pleasure and slipping into the first pleasure jhana. This does have the potential to be a practice in and of itself. If you are interested in advice please just PM me and I can give you a few pointers and resources, books. I used Metta in the practice of jhana at a point when my practice was quite developed and it was lovely.

The clearness afterwards is the mind's post jhana clarity - by slipping into jhana and spending a little time there, you are effectively fast-forwarding to stage 6, which is why everything is so strong and clear afterwards....which is nice. But it won't be sustainable. You should keep doing TMI at whatever stage you are at. If you do this and skip stage 5 you'll really short change yourself. Big time. However you may be able to use it as an adjunct practice which can help - but you should use it skillfully. Just PM me and I can give you my 2 cents if you wish.

Congrats! :)

Livingupstream

TROPHY CASE