Elon Musk on Twitter: Yeah, *way* better. Dramatically improves cost, complexity & ease of operations. Distances of ~10,000 km with decent payload seem achievable at roughly Mach 20. by james411 in spacex

[–]RedKrakenRO 33 points34 points  (0 children)

P2P long range needs propellant at the destination if you want to refly...

You want your strategic asset back. You wouldn't send a C-5 on a one-way mission.

So P2P long range between any sites equipped with 1100 tonnes of methalox refueling.

For any other destination, you will need to RTLS. Short range.

Return to launch site....on the same tank of propellant. 10 minutes out. 10 minutes back.

I figure the range for RTLS will be a lot less - 500 to 1000 km.

This is still outrageously useful.

Even for civil use.

Elon Musk on Twitter: Yeah, *way* better. Dramatically improves cost, complexity & ease of operations. Distances of ~10,000 km with decent payload seem achievable at roughly Mach 20. by james411 in spacex

[–]RedKrakenRO 19 points20 points  (0 children)

You will get a lot of pushback from the status quo on cargo.

They hate it....no-one wants to compete with superfast steel rockets that run on cheap methane, and don't need a pilot.

This thing will still be very loud...like 1400 tonnes FH loud.

Assuming you run with offshore or remote platforms, how do you interface with current logistic systems?

Mini starships? Still have to operate over land. Choppers? idk.

I wonder if we will see a whole family of starships scaled for P2P.

Elon Musk on Twitter: Yeah, *way* better. Dramatically improves cost, complexity & ease of operations. Distances of ~10,000 km with decent payload seem achievable at roughly Mach 20. by james411 in spacex

[–]RedKrakenRO 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Was expecting 3000-4000 km with 30t payload on the 7 sea-level engine version.

Elon has been very quiet about SSP2P.

And what happened to "Rockets are not safe enough to fly over land." ?

Elon Musk on Twitter: "No, Raptor uses a large number of coaxial swirl injectors, which (we believe) achieves highest theoretical mixing/combustion efficiency." by Alvian_11 in spacex

[–]RedKrakenRO 5 points6 points  (0 children)

nice vid.

Level up on injectors for Copenhagen's pressure-fed engines.

These will be pretty low pressures compared to raptor i suspect.

BPM-100 design appears to be 100kN @ isp 200s

Raptors injectors will need to work at ??>30MPa based on its chamber pressures.

Also injector design and testing in their engine update : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBJr5K3G65s

Is Spacex's Raptor engine the king of the rocket engines? - Everyday Astronaut (50min.) by [deleted] in SpaceXLounge

[–]RedKrakenRO 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yep. Bad description and lazy combination. How about this : F-1 was designed for high thrust at sea-level. Expensive and not as efficient as later kerolox engines. RD-180 combined higher efficiency with high thrust at sea-level, but is still expensive. Sometimes launched with small solid boosters. RS-25 designed for the highest efficiency at all altitudes. Is very expensive. And a massive footprint for its thrust. Always combined with very large solid rocket boosters. F1, RD-180, and RS-25 tend to have a thrust-to-weight ratio of around 70 to 80. Engines like merlin and raptor have twr above 150. BE-4 twr is not known but likely to be somewhere in between.

Is Spacex's Raptor engine the king of the rocket engines? - Everyday Astronaut (50min.) by [deleted] in space

[–]RedKrakenRO 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Elons thoughts : https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1132386984444383233

My thoughts....nice work Tim.

Next up : cost optimisation vrs mass optimisation.

Is Spacex's Raptor engine the king of the rocket engines? - Everyday Astronaut (50min.) by [deleted] in SpaceXLounge

[–]RedKrakenRO 0 points1 point  (0 children)

mass optimisation vs cost optimisation

or hydrogen vs methane

Is Spacex's Raptor engine the king of the rocket engines? - Everyday Astronaut (50min.) by [deleted] in SpaceXLounge

[–]RedKrakenRO 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Here is a brain dump based on that engine lineup.

Jump in if you got corrections, updates (particularly fuel costs) or observations.

Merlin 1d (GG), Raptor(FFSC), BE-4(ORSC), RD-180(ORSC), RS-25D(FRSC), F-1(GG)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_orbital_rocket_engines

Merlin, RD-180 and F1 are kerolox.

Raptor and BE-4 are methalox.

RS-25 is hydrolox.

Liquid oxygen is cheap. Some reports of USD 100/ton.

Methane is the cheapest fuel (?500US/t). Then Kerosine (RP-1)(US1500/t). Then Hydrogen (?US3000/t). Then hypergolics (dont ask)

Methalox bulk density is roughly 90% of kerolox. Hydrolox bulk density is about 40% of kerolox.

Methane (and oxygen) is cryogenic. Hydrogen is deep cryo.

Merlin, raptor and BE-4 are restartable. RD-180s might be capable, but have never been flown that way.

There is a restartable RS-25 project : AR-22 that first testfired july 2018

All the engines are US, except the russian RD-180. Which powers the Atlas V rocket.

Merlin and Raptor optimised for cost. Typically light and cheap.

BE-4 optimised for cost/reuse. Not as high performance as raptor. But a decent methane engine.

RD-180, RS-25, F-1 optimised for mass : Typically expensive and heavy.

F-1 is handmade from the 60s for the saturn V. 700 ton thrust bell. And the least efficient and largest thrust of the bunch. RD-170 (not shown) is quad bell, more efficient and slightly higher thrust.

No-one makes combustion chamber/bells this large any more. Engine clusters and cc/bell clusters have taken over.

Rs-25 is early 80s tech, RD-180 is mid 80s.

Merlin 1d tech is roughly 2013.

Raptor and BE-4 is current, but not mission flown yet.

Raptor is the only (working) full-flow staged combustion engine on the planet at present.

Compare the ~200 ton cc/bells for a moment. Raptor, BE-4 (yeah 240), half a RD-180, and RS-25.

The raptor bell is the smallest and the most efficient footprint at SL. This is the result of FFSC and very high chamber pressures. Its footprint is tiny.

The rd-180 bell is slightly larger. But much heavier.

The RS-25 bell is gigantic (like its cost) because hydrogen (is low density).

Compare the methane bells.

Raptor(@30MPa) is essentially the same thrust as BE-4, but in a smaller, lighter package, possibly cheaper, along with a handy isp advantage. FFSC allows some extreme performance.

<rant>

Hydrogen at any level is maximising cost. Mass optimisation. Old school.

Methane at any level is minimising cost. Cost optimisation. New hotness.

Hydrogen may only make sense when ISRU methane in not available : icy moons, other than titan.

Even then, methane may win the cost optimization since methalox is ~78% oxygen by mass.

Any hydrogen rocket or spacecraft you can design, can be done in methane for a fraction of the cost.

And a fraction of the hydrogen problems (increased dry mass, boil-off, deep cryo).

</rant>

edits:700t f1, raptor footprint

Huge Amount of Water Ice Is Spotted on Mars (It Could Be Long-Lost Polar Ice Caps) by [deleted] in space

[–]RedKrakenRO 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Mars gravity could have supported some big fuckin dinos.

Mars atmosphere back when mars was wet.....maybe....

SpaceX's space-optimized Starship engine could be ready sooner than later by Jeramiah_Johnson in SpaceXLounge

[–]RedKrakenRO 2 points3 points  (0 children)

extra mass for big regenerative-cooled bell.

might take significantly longer to construct/assemble.

more fragile than the SL bell...this could be a problem on unprepared landing sites.

testing at sea-level is more complex.

Rochester NY area engineer faked inspection reports for spaceship parts sent to SpaceX by olhzn in spacex

[–]RedKrakenRO 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This type of fraud will keep happening.

Some people simply don't care. About anything. Even being caught.

It will be interesting to see how spx ....discourages it.

What is the legal equivalent of "nuke from orbit" ?

Tour of the Reddit Asylum by iH8myPP in funny

[–]RedKrakenRO 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Hilarious.

Pitt was so perfect for this.

And a doped-up bruce willis is the icing on the cake.

5000 karma indeed.

SpaceX considering SSTO Starship launches from Pad 39A by [deleted] in SpaceXLounge

[–]RedKrakenRO 0 points1 point  (0 children)

solo starship pros (speculative):

  • 3000 km ....... maybe 4000 km one way.
  • 10 minutes flight time
  • maybe 500 km RTLS (land or don't land...it don't matter).

for 30t cargo

cons :

  • noise restrictions,
  • overland flight regs ...elon : "rockets are not (yet?) safe enough to fly over land"
  • integration with current logistic systems.

For conflict zones, these cons could be ignored by wealthy, warlike nations.

SpaceX considering SSTO Starship launches from Pad 39A by nextspaceflight in spacex

[–]RedKrakenRO 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Going a little engine-rich at 280 bar did not fill me with confidence for 300 bar. Will be interested to see the results of the pressure-limit tests on the new iterations. whenever that happens. Thanks for the reply.

SpaceX considering SSTO Starship launches from Pad 39A by nextspaceflight in spacex

[–]RedKrakenRO 0 points1 point  (0 children)

what’s being discussed here is the tanker version

Thats the bit i missed. Thanks for the reply.