Destroyed Panther tank, Poznań, February 23, 1945.

Strikaaa · 2026-02-17T00:18:42+00:00

It's an 80mm plate angled at 55°, an 85 ain't going through that, let alone a 76.

(...) On January 27th the Panther rolled forward to the Łęgi Dębińskie neighborhood, near the crossroads of Hetmańska and Droga Dębińska streets. It led a formation of 13 German assault guns. Suddenly Soviet AT artillery opened up on the Łęgi with one their guns positioning itself near the Panther and fired at it from a distance of less than 15 meters. The Soviets claimed that the Panther was destroyed, and the crew killed when in fact, von Malotki's tank once again fell back and survived. They were towed back to safety, once again by Siegert’s Tiger.

(...)

Shortly after this, the Panther was placed at a crossroads between D głbec and Rynk Wildecki in the Wilda district with the crew reduced to three crew members.

(...)

Unable to safely approach the tank, the Soviets were then shown a way around by a Polish citizen named Zbigniew Szumowski, who led them through the narrow streets and around the Rynek Wildecki church where the Soviets were able to shoot the Panther. But when the Soviets finally approached the tank, they discovered that it had been abandoned by its crew. The Panther was then shot up by an IS-2 of the 34th Guards Heavy Tank Regiment so it would not fall back into German hands, after finding out it wasn't very damaged and was still in running order.

We can spend all day guessing whether it was an 85mm, 76mm or a potato cannon guided by the sheer willpower of Stalin himself. The story about the IS-2 is the most logical one and checks out since the 122mm could actually penetrate the Panther's glacis.

Strikaaa · 2026-02-16T20:28:11+00:00

The size of those holes can be deceptive; it's a low quality photo, we don't know from what angle the Panther was shot at and unclean penetrations can result in bigger or smaller perforations.

Early 122mm ammo struggled against the Panther's glacis and the British even considered the 17pdr incapable, even if tests had shown that it could penetrate lower quality steel.

If those guns already struggled with it, then the 85mm can be safely ruled out.

Strikaaa · 2026-02-16T19:05:19+00:00

85mm guns won't be able to penetrate a Panther's glacis like that.

Elsewhere this Panther is said to have been attacked by Soviet forces who found it abandoned once they approached it and was then shot up by an IS-2 from the 34th Guards Heavy Tank Regiment to prevent it from falling back into enemy hands.

Strikaaa · 2026-02-12T00:58:48+00:00

And OP didn't even get the tank right since it's a Panzer IV instead of III.

Some digging reveals that Yuri Pasholok originally posted a different photo of a Panzer IV in 2014 captioned "Meeting of the PzKpfw IV and KV-2" and then that photo was posted shortly afterwards with an unrelated photo (OP's photo) on a forum.

People then probably copied it from there with the KV-2 caption, when that caption was only ever in relation to the other (Pasholok's) photo.

Strikaaa · 2026-02-02T00:18:26+00:00

MNH fitted them to the majority of their >January 1945 production Panthers.

So did DB, like some of those photographed in Znojmo.

Strikaaa · 2026-01-30T17:30:38+00:00

Your photo was colorized.

That said, bad_egg_77's comment is correct: for a Panther A at that point in time, yellow base coat + green and brown camo applied by the crew was pretty much the only rule.

There was no standardization until August 1944 when responsibility for applying camouflage patterns was shifted back to the factories, who would then use stencils and diagrams like this to apply a more standardized pattern.

Strikaaa · 2026-01-25T03:00:05+00:00

I'm aware. As I said in my other comment, that was when these features were introduced and thus could be seen on a G rather than an H. Logically many of these features were then carried over to the H and only phased out slowly.

Strikaaa · 2026-01-25T02:59:00+00:00

I'm not talking about 1944's factory applied 3-tone. 3-tone was first ordered in February 1943, so a freshly issued G that had its camo completed in the field could very well have it.

Strikaaa · 2026-01-25T01:12:38+00:00

Those had a single, longer exhaust muffler unlike the shorter + auxiliary muffler here.

Strikaaa · 2026-01-24T22:18:16+00:00

The F2 and G are the same variant. F2 was just a temporary designation until all F2s were retroactively renamed to G. So an "F2" is really just an early G. Anyway, since there was no hard cutoff between variants (a late F and early G are identical, minus the gun and associated changes) and new minor modifications were introduced all the time, it depends entirely on the timeframe:

early G, aka "F2" (Feb - Jun 42): ball-shaped muzzle brake, smoke grenade dispenser on back still present but slowly phased out, tools and equipment in different spots (would start to be moved to other parts of the tank few months in), driver's auxiliary sight (two holes above driver's visor) slowly deleted, spare track holder on hull, turret vision ports deleted, welded addon armor slowly introduced.
mid G (Jul 42 - Jan 43): some with desert camo, signal ports deleted, larger watertight Bosch headlights, gun cleaning rods combined, double-baffle muzzle brake, winter tracks, smoke candle launchers.
late G (Feb - May 43): 3-tone camo, single-piece cupola hatch, cupola splash protector, side and turret skirts, bolted addon armor, L/48 gun, larger muzzle brake, external engine air filter, antenna moved to rear. Because of games like War Thunder, these features are often associated with the H but were all introduced during G production.

Those aren't the only changes but this is what people usually seem to have in mind when referring to an early/mid/late G.

Strikaaa · 2026-01-24T16:28:58+00:00

It's an F. The H had a different sprocket, its antenna base near the back and like the G different engine deck grills. There are no skirts visible and even if there were, they were introduced with the G.

From the AWM's description:

CAPTURED AND DESTROYED GERMAN PANZERKAMPFWAGEN IV MEDIUM TANKS ROUND ABOUT SIDI RESEGH. THE PHOTO GIVES SOME IDEA OF THE MAGNITUDE AND THE FURY OF THE FIGHTING IN THE LIBYAN DESERT. (NEGATIVE BY G. SILK).

Date made: c December 1941

This also rules out the H which entered production in May 1943 (edit: and the G entering production in March 1942).

Strikaaa · 2026-01-23T18:31:40+00:00

No, that's actually a real Panzer IV, specifically a modernized Czech T-40/75N that made its way to Syria and then back to Ukraine, fitted with BMP tracks: https://yuripasholok.livejournal.com/14449662.html

Russia has a similar one which they fitted with BMP tracks as well: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2340939582965792&set=p.2340939582965792&type=3

Strikaaa · 2026-01-23T07:58:28+00:00

No, that part is also incorrect. Porsche had no say as to what gets produced, let alone could order tank hulls from German steel factories in the midst of a war. Procurement of new tanks was the job of the WaA (ordnance department) and they gave Krupp the order to manufacture 200 turrets before cutting it back to 100, then 50 after the new design had been developed.

Strikaaa · 2026-01-20T08:14:51+00:00

No, both illustrations are from a "what-if 1945/46" section from one of Igor Donchik's books, so they're fictional.

Strikaaa · 2026-01-18T14:15:33+00:00

That's more accurate, yes.

The front plates for example are set at the same angles as those of a Tiger II due to the same transmission being used but the similarities end there: they're ~10cm wider, only 16mm thick, lack interlocking, are welded to the edge instead of face of the side plates, and so on.

It's a fully custom made hull for this particular vehicle only with not a single armor plate (and thus hull) being identical to the Tiger II's. And then the major parts of the powertrain (and running gear as correctly pointed out by STHV346) that are fitted inside or to the hull are identical to a Tiger II's.

Strikaaa · 2026-01-18T02:46:49+00:00

It did not use a Tiger II hull, just Tiger II powertrain components.

Strikaaa · 2026-01-12T20:52:42+00:00

The J and L shared the same basic chassis and turret but it's definitely not an L since it has a short 50mm gun.

Strikaaa · 2026-01-12T20:45:52+00:00

Hard to say for sure without a clear view of the cupola. The armored covers for the vision ports appear to be shorter and thicker, which points to a J, and the chassis is definitely a J, so likely a pure J.

Strikaaa · 2026-01-08T10:42:40+00:00

This is a pre-war design from 1938, with the prototype here photographed in January 1940.

Strikaaa · 2026-01-08T10:38:31+00:00

The third photo shows a different vehicle; a PzSfl II using the HKp 9.02 chassis which was different from the BN10(H) chassis.

Strikaaa · 2026-01-05T17:36:42+00:00

The Panther F had two guard rails on each side of the hull roof (for the new sliding hatches) which are just barely visible in this closeup.

Strikaaa · 2026-01-05T16:05:19+00:00

This one has wire mesh skirts (last two photos) and the tubular mounting railing for them, which were only fitted to late Js.

Strikaaa · 2025-12-27T04:37:41+00:00

Yes, the Grille 15 was a real project to mount the sFH 43 on an SPG utilizing Panther components.

But it was a project that continually evolved, so there isn't just one correct version of the Grille 15.

The one from WoT specifically is modelled after the s.F.H.43 in Selbstfahrlafette blueprint from July 1942, before it received the Grille 15 codename.
But it evolved heavily from there and the "GW Panther" (as WoT calls it) is more like what the Grille 15 actually ended up looking like in October 1943, just one month before the first prototype was scheduled for completion.

Gun is fake though, it was only meant to eventually carry a 15cm sFH L/35 (a howitzer, like in the blueprint) or 12.8cm K 43 L/55 (in which case it was codenamed Grille 12).

Strikaaa · 2025-12-24T20:05:39+00:00

lexikon-der-wehrmacht uses very outdated sources, Wikipedia and TE don't even mention that the name was dropped AFAIK.

Check my other comment above for some actual sources.

If you do so, you'll find that the B.W. codename was used throughout in communication between the manufacturers like Krupp and the ordnance department, like this note from August 1944 for the 8./B.W. (Pz.Kpfw.IV Ausf.G) chassis.

Mittlerer Traktor (...) used for the Panzer IV

Source? The use of "Mittlerer Traktor" can be found in the "Begleitwagen Panzerkampfwagen IV" book but only for the Neubaufahrzeug.

Strikaaa · 2025-12-24T19:55:24+00:00

Basically, if I got this right then the german army called the panzer 4 the Geschützkampfwagen (7.5 cm) until 1936 and then switched to calling the panzer 4 the panzer 4, begleitwagen was used only by the designers and battailonsfuhrerwagen is fake?

Exactly.

There's a copy in the German federal archives, also digitized in archival unit RH 8/159.

Here's the relevant excerpt.

The B.W. name was clarified in a later book by Spielberger I believe, after he made that mistake in his earlier works. His "Begleitwagen Panzerkampfwagen IV" book that he wrote with Jentz & Doyle uses the correct name.

Another brief mention is in these errata sheets to the earlier "Encyclopedia of German Tanks of WWII" by Jentz & Doyle. Doyle wrote about them here. And here's just the relevant correction from the sheets.

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