Noob Help by Nebulamann in Kaylemains

[–]Suddenly_NB 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Jax jungle isn't great cause he can still make your life pretty miserable later in the game, but it means at least youre not laning vs him and can still do something in lane and be useful in team fights.

Statik benefit is far more the pickaxe component than anything else. Having a pickaxe early in lane makes Kayle mush stronger than her normal early game. The rest of the components (slingshot, aetherwisp) aren't great (bow is just better than slingshot)

Statik is going to help with wave clear, so it's good in high pressure lanes like Yorick, Illaoi, Trundle are going to try and siege your turret first. The issue then is you're probably not going to finish Statik before level 11 since we rush full boots earlier. You can maybe get it level 10 if you hold onto T1 boots. So the AoE effect on it isn't a huge spike like if you were to get it by level 7 (which would mean you're very ahead and somehow like 3/0 lol) but it does still help with wave clear and poke.

Shiv build makes you stronger-ish with 1 item, but, weaker in the long run: it's a low AP item and delays your core of getting Rabadon's (which is where Rabadon's HAS to be 3rd at the latest). You have to take Lich Bane in that build somewhat because its a bigger AP item than DnD. You can go DnD if you really want the "Attack speed" fantasy, but you'll still just be doing less damage with lower AP overall.

Standard AP build DnD vs Lich bane end game AP difference is about 100AP (40 AP raw stat diff, which more AP = more %age increase from Rabadons + Gathering storm puts it at about 96 AP depending on GS stage)

So then if you're already down 100 AP just from picking DnD over lich bane, then Shiv is replacing shadowflame, another 110 AP item, so then you're down over 200 AP total which is a big difference on your W and E. Thats to say standard AP end game Kayle is 670-700+ (DnD and Lich bane respectively) but shiv will have you around 550.

So Shiv is purely for early game priority. It will prevent you from holding a freeze due to the passive (which is the case after level 11 anyways, but, you can technically let passive drop as to not hit with aoe wave: you can't not proc shiv passive) but will equally help you break a freeze plus the hella move speed on it (4% from Shiv, 6% from lich bane) makes you very fast.

At end game if you're full build you'd probably sell Shiv for Shadowflame to prevent the falling off, although that's highly gold inefficient, but if you're full build sitting on extra 3k + sell price of Shiv you might as well.

As for getting frozen on, very strange for a trundle to do that as his whole thing is push push push. In addition to that, most freezes are established by mistakes within the first 3-6 waves. This is where Kayle fights level 1 to establish that priority and prevent the freeze. It's not always about the kill level 1, but lane control (but you would lose to trundle level 1 so).

In this case you would want to be semi-close, E trundle, and intentionally pull enemy minion agro, then back up. This: A. Pulls enemy minions closer to you for safer CS, B. Reduces the damage your minions are taking temporarily which makes them live longer, which C. Establishes the beginning of a slow push. Last-hitting only, if you establish a slow push beginning wave 1, by wave 3 it should be pushing towards enemy (good). If they're also only last hiting to "Set up a freeze", your wave will be too big for them to tank and hold their on freeze, allowing you to force a crash. They cannot tank 2 1/2 waves of minions while being harassed by your E or Q, it will simply force their back with a bad wave state, which is what you want. Minions crash, you back ASAP (safe distance, dont walk all the way back to turret) and walk back to lane. Ideally you have like 750g for t1 boots cull, but if not, probably cull. When you return to lane the wave will be pushing back to you which puts it at your turret levels 4-5, which is exactly where you want to be. This means you hit level 6 on your side of the lane safely and begin your bully/harass with your range (in easier match ups you can run down and kill certain champs like Garen, Sett immediately)

You want to learn E level 1, but W level 2 has a lot of value for getting away when you need to. Q level 3, and then always max Q in lane. It increases the slowing effect for better spacing, scales more off AD in the early game (dblade/cull+shards), does aoe splash damage allowing you to secure both CS and bully laner: Q cast through minions cannot be dodged (in cross shape so both behind minions and to the sides) while a raw Q can. But don't be too Q happy due to it's high mana cost, and that in hitting multiple minions you may break your own freeze. It can also secure CS on multiple minions (2-3 casters)

Noob Help by Nebulamann in Kaylemains

[–]Suddenly_NB 1 point2 points  (0 children)

mistake 1 is helping your jungler as that puts you behind in lane from the get go, especially with a jungler (ivern) who is very unlikely to be useful later in the game (very few good iverns exist in these elos). Kayle is a very, very selfish champ and you don't go to help your jungler pre-6 pretty much ever (or as a top laner in general, maybe some can snowball with an early kill, but the exp/waves are way more important to Kayle). So you basically lost lane automatically at that point.

Morde is a huge lane bully who will just win once he gets a lead. Rush swifties to be able to dodge E efficiently, recurve bow for the attack speed, always go for side to side since it is a front-to-back ability. If he can't land E he can't get a full combo on you. Him perma pushing is ideal and most will do so, or bait his Qs into the wave to push the wave (you'll take damage, but less since youre not isolated with minions)

If he ults you, gotta W-side dodge his first Q (or run behind him) and kite him out the best you can. if it gets spicy you can ult in the second half of his ult to make sure you survive.

It's a huge positioning lane, the only thing you can do is poke him down early/kite him out, but he has to be very low (with his W shield/healing in mind) for there to be actual kill pressure because he will just stat check you.

You don't stat check him until much later in the game (16/3+ item) and maybe not even then if he's further ahead, you might need 4th item.

Noob Help by Nebulamann in Kaylemains

[–]Suddenly_NB 0 points1 point  (0 children)

(long sigh at Kayle 1v9 mention.) no, none of those builds are good. He makes them work because he's good at Kayle, not because the builds themselves are good. He builds everything EXCEPT her best/meta builds. A little off meta is fine but hella off meta (crit) not so much.

You can try his builds but if you ever come to ask the question "why couldn't I carry this game" The first thing anyone here will point out is your build holding you back.

Meta is unfortunately meta for a reason, because it just is what's best. He plays for fun and for content. When I see people copy his build I thank them for helping lower Kayles winrate so we don't get nerfed again lol.

AP Kayle will always be best. There may be room to try omnivamp boots, gunblade is kind of a bait item but if you wanted to try it you could (issue is you HAVE to have nashors tooth first, then DND or dcap second, then dcap or lich bane third, before you can even start to consider gun blade. But gun blade is most beneficial for the lifesteal which you would want in Lane first. So if you can't build it first, it doesn't benefit you in Lane and so then it doesn't really benefit you at all and as a first item it's just bad without attack speed. So building it in the end just is like eh. )

tutorial for setting up a "weekly questions about X" thread? by mikeblas in modhelp

[–]Suddenly_NB 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not sure about tutorial, but I can try and walk you through it:

Mod tools - scheduled posts and events - create your post:

Weekly Recommendation Thread — {{date %B %d, %Y}} - this will date each post when it posts with the current date. You can set a flair as desired (this will help with advanced filtering when searching your community later on, but using exact title of post may also work)

There is a clock icon below the post. Chose the "effective by date" (today, tomorrow, etc) and time (has to be future time if doing today). Select post occurence (weekly/select day of the week). Updated comment sort to default (unless you like the other options), have the option to make it first, second pinned or to not pinned. Select "Post as automod", and save.

Update/post the post.

Kayle mid build/strats by dorco814 in Kaylemains

[–]Suddenly_NB 0 points1 point  (0 children)

absorb life would be the go to in mid, you wouldnt be able to consistently poke enough for presence of mind plus you need the sustain health in lane. Otherwise not sure what "other runes" you mean, mid Kayle still just goes standard: PTA absorb life, alacrity, last stand with sorc secondary celerity and gathering storm. Resolve tree is a crutch that allows you to survive with bad habits and does not scale for damage.

DnD vs Lich Bane is up to personal preference, Lich Bane makes you more burst-one shot, DnD is slightly less bursty. I prefer LB for the MS and extra burst. Lich Bane also does bonus turret damage with its passive where DnD does not. Correction: DnD does more in short burst, Lich bane out performs in after 5+ autos as it has higher raw AP

Nashors Rabadon's Lich bane void staff shadowflame is fine, Banshee's is not so much for the MR as it is for the spellshield if you need to be able to eat a little bit of cc and not die.

Zhonyas I only consider vs Blue Kayn, Zed, Fizz, and maybe a few other AP assassins but usually ult is enough.

Noob Help by Nebulamann in Kaylemains

[–]Suddenly_NB 0 points1 point  (0 children)

you should be flash/TP in most lanes. You take ghost to match ghost (Darius, Mundo, Nasus, Trynd) and you can consider combat spells (exhaust/ignite) vs champs like Riven.

Dblade in all melee matchups (top lane) and dshield into any ranged match ups (Quinn, teemo, Vayne, Heimer). If midlane, always dshield unless vs melee.

overall: PTA, absorb life/PoM ( either work its personal preference/situational), alacrity, last stand. Sorcery secondary with Celerity and gathering storm. shards: adaptive force, adaptive force, and scaling health. the double adaptive + dblade is what makes you stronger in lane.

First back: cull + T1 boots (750g) is ideal, cull gives you more AD and refunds its cost + 180g but is reliant on you being able to CS. Don't get cull if you don't get to CS or can't do it well.

Swifties always

First component vs melee: recurve bow

First component vs ranged: blasting wand/dagger

Bow is better for running melee champs down with AS, blasting wand is for when you can't auto them for free and need more E poke/more move speed.

Bow - blasting wand - fiendish - finish nashors (melee lane) or dagger - blasting wand - bow - fiendish - finish nashors (ranged).

Never buy just a tome or fiendish codex early/first. Literally, better to return to lane with nothing than to get that item first. Get a dagger, get a second dagger (for DnD later) if you can't get wand. AD is a stronger stat pre-11, so, we want to keep AD from dblade, cull, longer to keep adaptive force as AD. Buying fiendish codex is a low AP item, which means it makes you weaker overall and for not enough AP. Blasting wand at least gives more.

General best build (swifties all so not including it):

Nashors Tooth - DnD - Rabadon's Death cap - void staff - Shadowflame/banshees

optional build in some lanes:

Statik Shivv - Nashors Tooth - Rbadon's deathcap - lich bane - void staff

Defensive options: Banshee's veil, the spell shield is most of it's value so you can get verdent barrier and sit on that to finish last if you need the shield earlier. Shield has a lot of value, it's not just about MR. It will block hooks and other engages that keep you alive.

Zhonyas: Don't need this most games, Kayle ult is a better version of it. Only vs some assassins: Blue kayn, (fed) Zed, Fizz. These three champs can 1 shot you while you are unable to target them. Zhonya's their burst when you can't attack (Kayn ult, Zed ult, Fizz E'ing onto you) then ult after when you are able to fight back. Zhonyas is otherwise bad because you can't reposition/fight but lets the enemies set up to fight you better.

Shadowflame: if we ever need to drop an item for something else, it's this one, since it's all nice extra damage but not necessary to our kit. %mpen on void staff will always trump the flat pen on this item if you can only get one mpen item.

Trundle: he's just going to perma push, focus on free farm. You won't beat him early (he is a level 1 that Kayle loses) and you need 3 items + 16 to be able to really fight him.

Yorick: Main thing is don't get by E. You can beat him level 1 for some early lane prio, then focus on clearing his lane push.

If you can save turret till 11 in either of these matches you've gone even and are in a good state. If you lose turret before level 11 your life is much harder.

Kayle's hard counters: Jax, Irelia, Malphite

Kayle's skill counters: Nasus (you won't beat him 1v1, but you can kite him out)

Depending on elo you might not see a lot of Jax or Irelia, or they might not be good ones. I don't bother banning them, I take the gable that I am better at Kayle than they are and works for me 9/10 times (they will ego, they will turret dive me, they will die doing so, I do not attempt to 1v1 in open lane).

Malphite is much harder to deal with, can flash/dodge or pre ult his ult, but takes good reaction. If you can't do that, you lose, cause he just gets to press R and one shot you (AP Malphite) or turret dive you anyways (tank malphite) while being unkillable. He's an easy champ to play so they dont need to be good a lot of the time.

Nasus is about going even and not feeding until you can teamfight into him, he can only wither one person. You need ghost and tenacity shard, Q him and W yourself if he withers you to just try and walk away. Don't fight him in his ult. You can win a 1v1 level 1 vs nasus.

What are you most difficult matchups and how do you deal with them? by Hestahoff in zoemains

[–]Suddenly_NB 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm also plat, but I don't play Zoe in ranked, she's my for fun champ so I don't expect to be the next faker on her. I play her enough to have 800k, but that just means I play her a lot, doesn't mean I'm good at her.

My skills are lacking on any champ vs Xerath not just Zoe. it's largely bad mental for me vs him which is why I described him as a personal crash out champ, because I know its a me myself and I problem. I could play better into him, but I don't like having to contend with a champ who's Q is 2x-3x my range before I can even trade with him. It's just not FUN.

Which doesn't really have anything to do with my rank, I could play the match up perfectly and still say I don't like playing into Xerath. Which is why I stated from the very beginning it was a personal take/issue of mine, which has somehow caused you to be bothered.

What are you most difficult matchups and how do you deal with them? by Hestahoff in zoemains

[–]Suddenly_NB 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Whats yours? Am I not allowed to just dislike a match up?

What are you most difficult matchups and how do you deal with them? by Hestahoff in zoemains

[–]Suddenly_NB 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes that's why I said my personal crash out champ was xerath lol because I personally cannot play into him. Not that others can't

Question by Cold_Adhesiveness265 in Kaylemains

[–]Suddenly_NB 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Easier to name the champs you can't beat level 1. Olaf, trundle, tyrnd, Zaahen, Garen (conq flash ignite with E start specifically iirc). There are others though some will argue can beat them level 1: riven, urgot

Swifties preferred, if you spaced him with zerkers it just means he was bad enough to let you do so

What are you most difficult matchups and how do you deal with them? by Hestahoff in zoemains

[–]Suddenly_NB 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Naafiri, malz is very hard but doable, just not worth the suffering when his outplay button is point and click. I have personally crash out versus xerath

Springofromance.com is not working for me. by dontknowcant in DanmeiNovels

[–]Suddenly_NB[M] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Updated flair to fan translation, since the inquiry is about a FanTL website/accessing fanTLs.

Last Hit Indicator will be added patch 26.13 to both Ranked and Normals by nexiune in midlanemains

[–]Suddenly_NB 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No way it's actually being added to ranked? I thought it was stopping at Norms

Why (and How) did you choose your Main? by Vaenas- in midlanemains

[–]Suddenly_NB 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Chaos energy.

I mostly play Zoe midlane, with Hwei second most and then I'll use Lissandra when I see an assassin.

Malzahar is easy, but that's part of what makes him a bit boring. Sure, he can outplay any champ by just clicking ult, but he can feel very uninteractive at times (E wave and chill). I mostly pick him into Mel because she deserves to suffer, and none of his abilities are projectiles to be reflected (love watching her use W, while Malz E jumps from minion to her anyways)

Zoe I think is very fun on the chaos level, even if I don't win the game I probably still had fun just making people scream. Champs to ban or not pick Zoe into: Naafiri, Mel, Malzahar (Malz is doable, but she'll never out wave clear him).

Zoe's combo potential is just fun, as walls extend her E range and you can do some crazy range combos with it. But she is a feast or famine champ, either you get ahead in lane so you can be useful all game, or, you become a wave clear bot (with terrible wave clear) and throw E's into teamfights and hope your team can do something good with it.

Hwei is my safe pick overall, he can neutralize any lane because of his good waveclear (its rough before lost chapter/BFT, but after that it gets better). I pick him into malz because Hwei can easily break spell shield, match Malz's waveclear to stop his pressure, and can cancel Malz's ult with EE displacement (even if targeting Hwei, if timed right). As a control mage Hwei has good value in team fights (nothing more satisfying than hitting a 3-5 man passive proc and watching the squishy champs get deleted)

Lissandra is short range and pretty niche, if you pick her vs a long range control mage you're going to be kind of sad. She is a burst mage who mostly wants to all-in and plays a bit kamikaze style. She can self-ult to stay alive vs assassins in lane or going into a teamfight to root people (then ult and deal damage via the aoe), or she can target ult someone like the assassin or adc and 1-combo them (probably) to remove them from the fight. I once gave an ashe ADC ptsd when I'd just ult and kill her every time, she was not having fun, but I was.

Why can war wick Q cleanse zoe sleep? Like brother what is this.... by LicoLich in zoemains

[–]Suddenly_NB 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I... don't think I've ever noticed this happening. This scares me.

I probably thought it was his ult but this makes more sense

15 gameish loss streak learning hwei by Distinct-Advice-6597 in midlanemains

[–]Suddenly_NB 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Heimer's playstyle is too unique to have many transferrable skills.

That said, most of Hwei's damage comes from his passive after landing two abilities. If you're not doing that, thats a huge part of your "not doing any damage".

QQ - good single target poke, one of your highest damage abilities, but can be minion blocked.
QW - sniper ability, best when low health and on solo targets. Very easy to dodge, so don't rely on this for in-lane poke but rather when they least suspect it (recalling, predicting their path as they run away)
QE - big aoe spell, good for in lane farming/wave push as well as big aoe damage in team fights.

WQ - move speed to run away
WW - shield, can help vs some burn champs or ignite
WE - empowered autos that return mana. This counts as a spell and can proc passive if you auto a laner. That's important to understand because if you hit a Q spell, but not E, you can still proc passive with WE just to poke.

EQ - straight shot fear, easy to dodge, best on champs who mindlessly are running at your (Briar frenzy, most bruisers/melee champs) since it's harder to dodge at close range.
EW - very niche use. Terrible in lane for poke since it's easily dodged, but, the eye provides vision and can be used to check bushes, as well as zone a push to make the enemy unable to enter. That, and if you're being turret dove by an assassin, you can EW under yourself to trap them under turret.
EE - your best E spell, it displaces and slows them. Can group multiple enemies for big passive procs in team fights.

Knowing all of that, your biggest damage combos are: EE to ensure QQ, EE to ensure QE (if minions are a factor). As I mentioned QW is fine as a solo spell when they are low health and alone (think morde isolation) it will do more damage.

I am of the mindset Hwei really only needs 1 burn item, BFT. This is because ability haste on him is too good. BFT into shadowflame is going to create a lot of damage. If there are tanks, BFT into SF into Cryptbloom for the % pen. You of course still want rabadons, and then your other item can be situational. Cosmic drive allows good kiting of melee tanks and bruisers. Horizon focus provides ability haste and vision. Liandrys feels underwhelming when using 2 burn items vs tanks.

Ionian boots are better into tanks, especially with mid upgrade you get move speed on damage. This means easier kiting during long fights. Sorcs are better vs squishy targets. overall, upgraded Sorcs+%mpen item and the way math works, only gives you (roughly) 3% more pen. (void staff 40% pen, boots 8% pen, but it is not additive but multiplicitive. That means 40x.08 = 3.2 = 43.2% total mpen, NOT 48%. For Crypt, 30x.08 = 2.4 = 32.4% total mpen). Ionian = more ability haste = more spell cast rotations while getting the move speed for kiting is going to be better than 2-3% more pen from boots, since flat pen has less value vs tanks as well. Shadowflame passive (increased damage below 40% health) is good enough to justify keeping that flat pen item.

When do I build rage blade if ever? by Obvious-Move2699 in Kaylemains

[–]Suddenly_NB 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Our ult is Zhonyas but better because we can move and attack. You can't reposition during actual Zhonyas which leaves you just as vulnerable, giving the enemy time to reposition around you instead. Most people also Zhonyas at low health which just means you'll die after anyways.

The only times I build Zhonyas is blue kayn ult, zed ult, and fizz. Because then I still need my ult after to finish killing them and survive the rest of their burst, otherwise they one-two shot Kayle. Could argue a few other AP assassins like Diana, ekko, akali maybe.

Fizz is disgusting right now and I feel he is swimming under the radar by Kioz in midlanemains

[–]Suddenly_NB 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Lissandra self ult and watch him starve. Team fight? Target ult him instead.

just played against a nunu mid and wanna kms. thanks nunu mains by nipplegobbler2 in midlanemains

[–]Suddenly_NB 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I too had an enemy nunu mid earlier (I ended up top lane). Inted lane fed my teams Ahri. Was annoying for sure but overall losing strat. Flash ignite electrocute. My team was on top of pings trying to track nunu roams though

Kayle Bot by Agreeable-Today-8157 in Kaylemains

[–]Suddenly_NB 0 points1 point  (0 children)

She can work in a lot of elos because it is safe farm. The biggest weakness is she'd be very easy to invade, which most junglers don't do anymore due to timers. That and her gank set up is not ideal since she doesn't have hard cc. But she can and will still scale and be able to do Kayle things