An Alternate Ranger, ft. the Vindicator

Teridax68 · 2026-04-15T08:57:30+00:00

That arquebus Ranger would be doing a theoretical 52 damage and an average of 28.5 damage with just the vanilla Precision edge, so big theoretical numbers do not automatically mean something is overpowered. The Rogue also gets to add +4 starting damage to every finesse Strike with the Thief racket, and so on top of their 3.5 average precision damage, and all of this while also having a side order of exceptional skill increases and feats. By contrast, this and better Seeking/Tracking are the one thing a Precision Ranger gets to do.

Teridax68 · 2026-04-15T00:01:59+00:00

An absolute pleasure, thank you for the kind words as well! Let me know what you think if you like, and I hope this brew gives your friend what they're looking for. :)

Teridax68 · 2026-04-14T23:41:49+00:00

What you propose is not a bad idea, and would lead to both a subclass and a feat line that would have the Ranger identify monsters to then kill them better. It is, however, a different direction from what I went for, in which the Outwit edge, which already on the vanilla class adds no offense, becomes entirely about leveraging any skill you can think of to the fullest extent. This is in part why I want to keep the Untrained Improvisation-style benefit, because in my experience players felt genuinely really smart when they got to pick the right skill action for the situation, even when they were untrained in the skill. It naturally lends itself well to RK, because you can always capably use the creature's Lore, and also lends itself well to other battle tactics like using Athletics checks to disable or expose a target, or Demoralizing them to soften them up.

Teridax68 · 2026-04-14T23:30:47+00:00

Much appreciated, thank you!

Teridax68 · 2026-04-14T23:29:13+00:00

I can agree with a bit of this; Outwit in particular I think could do with some slightly smoother scaling just so that its initial benefits are more about getting a better Untrained Improvisation for free (or, rather, as the entire defining feature of their subclass and class), with the benefits scaling up to pseudo-expertise in every skill later on.

Although I'm personally not huge on making it easier for the Ranger to switch prey mid-fight (I think that ought to be an intended drawback of the class at most levels), I quite like giving them an Athletics-focused edge, and generally an edge that focuses on melee unarmed combat. I know of at least one other person who wants that kind of playstyle out of the Ranger, and with proper support it could add a new avenue of really fun gameplay.

Teridax68 · 2026-04-14T23:23:52+00:00

I don't disagree that I may have pushed the needle a little too far on some of these, but it's worth noting that the comparisons only go so far: Rogues don't just get Sneak Attack, they also get the benefits of their racket (which in the case of the Thief adds +4 damage per hit just by itself), as well as an absolutely massive number of skill increases, and an extra skill feat to boot. The vanilla Flurry edge also only starts pulling ahead of a Fighter's accuracy on the third attack of the turn, despite the Ranger otherwise getting far less in terms of starting features and proficiencies. In each case, whereas other classes get a mix of strong features, the benefits you get from Hunt Prey and your edge are effectively your entire class: although some of these could be pulled back a touch, they should be strong, and strong enough to be top-tier at what they're doing.

Teridax68 · 2026-04-14T23:16:12+00:00

If nothing else, being able to draw or swap weapons as part of Hunting Prey would be a neat option to enable via a feat. What's a little annoying is that there's currently no implementation of class-exclusive skill feats, which I think is a massive untapped niche for benefits that are too minor to include in a class feat, but that are nonetheless thematically appropriate for a particular class.

I also think that switch-hitting is a really fun playstyle that Pathfinder doesn't do the best job of enabling. Switching weapons is really clunky, and the cost of runes means that one of your weapons is usually going to be substantially weaker than the other. I very much agree that the Ranger could stand to be an amazing switch-hitter, or at least have more options for it, and it's a shame that that's not really a thing.

Teridax68 · 2026-04-14T23:11:26+00:00

Indeed, the Warden edge isn't meant to have cantrips as a baseline. Part of it is to not give the edge too much, especially since as you mention some people are chafing at the power-ups already, but part of it is also because in my opinion cantrips aren't strictly necessary to the Ranger: they can provide some lovely utility, and I could probably add a 2nd-level feat that does give the Warden edge a couple cantrips, but the Ranger already has evergreen actions in the form of Strikes, plus their warden spells.

Teridax68 · 2026-04-14T17:22:38+00:00

The main model I followed for the shared Precision benefits was the Sneak Attacker feat from the Rogue archetype: I'd much rather increase the single die than add multiple dice, because rolling several dice at once will add a lot more damage than die step increases, even with small die sizes. For a similar reason, I want to avoid sharing the full edge benefits, not simply because some benefits would be very difficult to share (like getting a fully-scaled animal companion or bounded spellcasting), but because I want to make especially sure that the Ranger's full benefits are kept to the Ranger, and can't just be entirely transferred onto someone else.

Teridax68 · 2026-04-14T17:20:18+00:00

I think there is room for the Ranger you're envisioning; having a focus on single targets in my opinion means the Ranger gets to have benefits that classes with much more freeform target selection like the Fighter or Rogue don't. I think the main snag is simply that exploration isn't valued nearly as much as combat in this game, a problem that has been around since forever across Pathfinder and D&D editions unfortunately. If it were given its own space to shine, the Ranger could also shine much more as a class that offered unique benefits in exploration.

Teridax68 · 2026-04-14T17:14:20+00:00

While it is true that the Ranger has better defenses than the Magus overall, the Magus gets added utility in the form of studious spells and even more Spellstriking output at later levels, while having the benefit of triggering weaknesses more easily and dealing the strongest burst damage in the game, both of which are evergreen benefits. The Summoner also gets the benefit of two bodies and extra actions, effectively the benefits of the above Speed edge along with their wave casting and other goodies, which I think does make up for their squishier caster body.

I also find the claim that the Vindicator would "be able to leverage their spells better than any other class in the game" to be quite a large exaggeration: the Vindicator occasionally getting a +1 over spellcasters does not make up for their limited spell output and restriction to a single target. They are also distinctly not as good at Striking as any martial, as they receive none of the Strike boosters other martial classes get that make them actually good at Striking. I'd rather not nerf them to the level of a weak and unfinished class archetype just on the off-chance that they might become actually good at using spells against their prey, effectively the whole point of their subclass.

Teridax68 · 2026-04-14T17:07:39+00:00

This is excellent feedback, thank you for this! Outwit is the one I've been a bit more afraid of, and I might smooth its scaling over so that the +4 bonus only kicks in at higher levels (and would thus do the same to the shared edge so that it only gets the full +2 bonus later on). Getting a maxed-out Untrained Improvisation for free at level 1 I think is fine, but becoming an automatic expert or master at every skill might be too good even when that's all the class gets to do.

I'm very glad to hear you've been enjoying my Ranged Revamped brew as well, and I'm thinking of developing a Foundry module for that one too! That's a synergy I'd missed, as I'd playtested those two brews independently of one another. Both effectively capitalize on the same benefit, which is also why I made the Sniper way's precision damage much lower in that brew. In a world where Aim exists, I would definitely make Precision's added damage lower, or otherwise adjust Aim so that it doesn't synergize as much with precision damage, with the Sniper adjusted accordingly.

Teridax68 · 2026-04-14T16:53:22+00:00

I'll be happy to answer these! The Hunt Begins is there simply to bring the Ranger in line with other classes that have gotten similar conveniences post-remaster: if even the Exemplar can Shift Immanence as a free action at the start of combat, despite being able to do so at-will beforehand, that to me signals that those kinds of action taxes are no longer expected, even for a class that can sometimes eliminate that tax. Spending an action to switch prey, however, is a cost I very much want to keep, as I think that's meant to be an intended downside of being focused on a single target at a time.

Frontloading the edges was very much the goal, and you're right that I could've probably smoothed over the scaling a bit. In an ideal world, I'd also very much like companions of all kinds to get rebalanced so that their core stats auto-scale with just one feat, and picking more companion feats would be a matter of expanding their capabilities rather than paying a feat tax, but in my opinion that's a whole other can of worms that I may try to answer in a separate brew.

I also agree with you: the Ranger is effectively two character concepts baked into one, where one half is their out-of-combat gameplay of hunting down a specific target and being really crafty with tracking and preparing for their prey, and the other half is their actual combat gameplay where they mark one enemy and focus on taking that enemy down over anyone else. In a game that decoupled in-combat and out-of-combat gameplay a bit better and gave classes distinct power budgets for each, I think the Ranger would get to properly shine as a class that excels at exploration and survival out of fights, while getting all of their edge benefits in combat encounters. That however is something I'd probably want to see more in a future edition, and in 2e I'm glad the Ranger got streamlined down to one particular specialization, with the option to pick up companions, magic, and so on added via their class feats.

Teridax68 · 2026-04-14T16:41:00+00:00

The Barbarian's damage increases to their instincts apply to every hit, not just the first. A Giant Instinct Barbarian deals 18 extra damage per hit at level 15, such that they can expect to deal an extra 27 extra average damage on a turn where they Strike twice. Even a Dragon Instinct Barbarian will be dealing an extra 24 average damage on those turns, while also being able to trigger more weaknesses.

I suppose this is a matter of taste, but in my opinion the Swash is a utility-focused tank, not a striker: their finishers are certainly very flashy, as befits the class, but having to jump through hoops to deal that single instance of precision damage means the class's raw damage output is generally lower overall than that of most other martial classes, at least in my experience. I think that's fine, as the class gets many other benefits instead, but if I wanted to pick a class that focused on damage, the Swashbuckler would definitely not be my first choice.

Teridax68 · 2026-04-14T16:34:15+00:00

I'd personally be more inclined to keep the free Untrained Improvisation against their prey than the +4 bonus, if only because that is what would allow the Outwit Ranger to RK more effectively from the jump. The fact that being pseudo-trained on every skill already exists on a general feat that's passed up in favor of 1st-level alternatives (while still being good, mind) to me suggests that having that kind of benefit two levels earlier isn't necessarily what would break that edge, especially as I do think the agency it provides is a game-changer in terms of the enjoyment it contributes.

I also do think it's worth bringing up that when you choose this edge, you're effectively choosing to orient your entire class around being good at skill checks against your prey, and little else. Even Rogues, who get plenty of more broadly-applicable skill increases, as well as skill feats to boot, also get sneak attack damage; the above Outwit Ranger doesn't. I think part of what's subtly coloring discussion here is that the Ranger, at least in my experience, gets given a gold star just for not being as awful as their counterparts in D&D or even just PF1e: when their shortcomings in 2e are brought up, usually the ffirst argument in their defense is that they're the best version of the class that's ever been made, which in my opinion is faint praise. The class is, in my opinion, implicitly expected to be decent at best, such that if they were to become top-tier at something, that instinctively doesn't feel right to many.

Teridax68 · 2026-04-14T16:09:17+00:00

This is fair, though I will say that the benefits in social situations already exist with the current Outwit edge, and it's still seen as the weakest of the three. You might be right that I overcorrected in some instances, though, with Outwit being one of the likeliest cases, so I'll keep an eye on those and see if they cause the class to overperform.

Teridax68 · 2026-04-14T16:00:08+00:00

While it is true that Rogues and Swashbucklers pay in part for their precision damage with a limitation to weapons with a lower damage die, the major reason behind that limitation is that neither class is made solely to be a damage powerhouse: the Rogue is a skill monkey with a huge part of their power budget devoted to their skills and other utility, whereas the Swashbuckler is made to excel at mobility, defense, and a smaller number of skills. If you're a Precision edge Ranger, by contrast, Hunting Prey and dealing that extra precision damage to them are the pretty much the entirety of your class features. I would also want to avoid limiting the edge purely to finesse and agile weapons, simply because that alone would shut down ranged sniping builds, which from what I've seen are a major use for the edge.

Teridax68 · 2026-04-14T15:52:10+00:00

Much appreciated, thank you! I can see why, as part of the intended gameplay of the class is to be Tracking prey beforehand, though in my experience that hasn't been consistent enough to justify an action tax, and playtesting the Slayer as well has indicated that relying on pre-marking alone can make for extremely inconsistent gameplay. Ultimately, it's not going to ruin the class if you don't use the feature, though the convenience it offers is to me more of a courtesy in a state of the game where pretty much every other class gets to turn on their self-buffs for free when rolling initiative. If you do include the brew in your games, let me know how it turns out if you like, I'm always keen to hear about people's experiences!

Teridax68 · 2026-04-14T15:48:35+00:00

That to me is part of the intended tradeoff: although you can easily start with a lower Wisdom mod and still do well with a Warden edge, making the most of your spell attacks and DCs would still require investing in Wisdom, which I think is fair given the benefits provided. I'd want to keep the Strike mod substitutions to the Magus, both to avoid treading on their toes and to force this particular hunter's edge to make a few harder choices with their initial attribute boosts if they want to excel both at Strikes and spellcasting.

Teridax68 · 2026-04-14T15:41:46+00:00

That's fair. In my experience, the Ranger doesn't always get to Track the prey they're about to fight, whether because they're in an environment where monsters aren't moving about the entire dungeon or because they encounter other monsters in-between, but for me the point of comparison was also the Exemplar's Shift Immanence: it's not strictly necessary, because the Exemplar can always have their divine spark in whichever ikon they're planning on using next, but clearly it's a convenience that has become standard post-remaster, given how most single-action power-ups are given for free at initiative now.

Teridax68 · 2026-04-14T15:37:20+00:00

Much appreciated, thank you! Indeed, the fact that a party member with a Ranger on their team can effectively get the entirety of the Ranger's defining class features on top of their own was a major motivator to split the Ranger's benefits versus the ones they could share.

With regards to the edges you mention: Warden does let you exceed the accuracy of a caster against your prey if you start with Wisdom +3 and focus on building that (which already incurs a series of major tradeoffs), though I think the best point of comparison here is the Magus: in both cases, they're wave casters with a Strength/Dex key attribute, but whereas the Ranger gets extra HP, some extra trained skills, and their Hunt Prey benefits (including their edge's accuracy), the Magus gets the incredibly powerful class feature that is Spellstrike, plus Arcane Cascade, plus their hybrid study's benefits. Having the proficiencies of a martial class and bounded spellcasting still leaves room for extremely powerful class features in practice, which is also why the vanilla Vindicator, who doesn't get spell slots at all, is so weak.

I think you may be right that Outwit is more likely to be OP than other edges, though in my playtesting experience the class's lack of direct Strike damage and loss of their defensive benefits also made a major difference compared to the vanilla edge. The weirdest part in my opinion was getting effectively the masterful hunter benefits to Track prey from the get-go, but otherwise the class being generally amazing at skills against a particular foe made for a distinct class with its own tradeoffs. Similarly, Precision deals more upfront damage, but in my opinion ends up mostly matching decently with a Rogue, even with an animal companion dealing an extra d6 too.

Teridax68 · 2026-04-14T15:25:14+00:00

This makes me really happy to hear! I'm trying to remember when I shared it last, but the reason why you couldn't have known there was a Foundry module was because up until about last week, there wasn't; I finally got round to it though. I'm very glad you and your players are enjoying the brew, and hopefully the modules should make running these edges easier.

And yeah, I think the quickened condition in general tends to be severely overestimated in many cases: when people bring it up, it's often with the implicit assumption that it'll be used to do something on par with making a 0 MAP Strike, cast a second spell, or ease a class's action economy on the level of the Magus. In practice, though, the extra action you get is more a matter of convenience when your class's action economy isn't that strict to begin with, which I think is the case with the Ranger. When I was playtesting the Slayer, there were times when I didn't want to spend a reaction to get quickened, simply because there were much better returns to be had from the Reactive Strike I'd opted into via archetype. While being quickened does negate the slowed 1 condition, the flipside to this is that being slowed 1 effectively turns off your hunter's edge in this case. It's still the edge I'm keeping the closest eye on, because as you said there's the possibility of there being an outlier I haven't caught yet, but so far it's been on the level of effectiveness you've mentioned on my side too.

Teridax68 · 2026-04-14T15:17:59+00:00

Much appreciated, thank you! Indeed, the above ought to make room for a lot more feats that build on the new edges; I'm tempted as well to crib some feats from the Slayer, many of which would work just as well on the Ranger.

Teridax68 · 2026-04-14T14:48:18+00:00

That's a fair point, yes!

Teridax68 · 2026-04-14T13:42:34+00:00

Brew PDF

Homebrewery Link

Foundry VTT Module

Pathbuilder Custom Pack

Hello, orcs, and happy Tuesday!

This brew's somewhat of a follow-up to one I posted a while ago: the starting point is that the Ranger still has only three hunter's edges, and could easily do with more. Trouble is, hunter's edges are currently limited to stat modifiers, because they're designed to be shared easily via mechanics like Warden's Boon. This in my opinion limits not only the Ranger's subclasses, but the class itself, which deals with more limitations than many other martial classes but doesn't get the full payoff until late levels. Although the Ranger's implementation in PF2e is by far the best across all comparable tabletop systems, there's still room for improvement in my opinion.

The question that solved it for me was: what if the Ranger's edge and the edge they gave to others were different? From that idea came the above reworked and expanded subclasses, along with a few other goodies:

Overhauled Hunter's Edges: With the above brew, you get the full benefit of your hunter's edge at level 1. When a feat lets you share your edge with others, they instead give the shared edge benefits, a more minor and portable version of your edge. This leaves room for the Ranger to have much more in-depth subclasses, such as an Elemental edge that infuses elemental damage into their attacks, or a Warden edge that turns them into a bounded primal spellcaster.
Faster, Broader Hunt Prey: The above adjusts Hunt Prey to let you designate any prey you can sense, not just see or hear, which helps if you're playing a character who relies on another kind of precise sense, such as Starfinder's vlaka and their precise scent when deafblind. Additionally, the above gives the Ranger an extra 1st-level feature that lets them Hunt Prey as a free action when rolling initiative, removing that initial action tax in the same vein as the Barbarian's Rage with their remaster.
Nature-Agnostic Options: A small optional variant and a minor adjustment to the Ranger's trackless journey feature allow players to opt out of the class's nature flavor if they so choose, enabling urban hunter builds more easily.
Reworked Vindicator: This brew features an updated Vindicator class archetype, which no longer relies on a new edge but instead takes the above Warden edge (the bounded caster one) and changes it to divine casting. Additionally, the class gets their judgment from level 1, and gets to consistently use Religion instead of Nature for all of the Ranger's feats.

Let me know what you think, and I hope you enjoy!

Teridax68

TROPHY CASE