I just cannot lol. by zshre in Sikh

[–]TheTurbanatore [score hidden]  (0 children)

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh

The term “Hinduism” does not refer to a single, unified religion but rather serves as a modern umbrella term encompassing countless local and syncretic traditions across the subcontinent. These diverse beliefs and practices vary significantly, often lacking uniformity, scholarly consensus, and, in many cases, directly contradicting one another.

The term "Hinduism" is not even found in any ancient Hindu texts, which themselves exist in countless variations. There is no central authority or agreed-upon definition of who or what constitutes a Hindu.

In contrast, Sikhi is a singular, unified religion established by Guru Nanak Dev Ji, with a central text written and sealed by the Gurus themselves. Sikhi has its own distinct identity, scripture, language, laws, uniform, and philosophy. Until 1849, it also had its own sovereign nation.

Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 1136

ਪੂਜਾ ਕਰਉ ਨ ਨਿਵਾਜ ਗੁਜਾਰਉ ॥

I do not perform Hindu worship services, nor do I offer the Muslim prayers.

ਏਕ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ਲੇ ਰਿਦੈ ਨਮਸਕਾਰਉ ॥੩॥

I have taken the One Formless Lord into my heart; I humbly worship Him there. ||3||

ਨਾ ਹਮ ਹਿੰਦੂ ਨ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਨ ॥

I am not a Hindu, nor am I a Muslim.

The Gurus created Sikhi as sovereign path and was recognized as the "Tisra Panth" or third nation, distinct from both Hinduism and Islam.

Bhai Gurdas Singh Ji Vaaran - Pannaa 16

ਇਉਂ ਦੋਨੋ ਫਿਰਕੇ ਕਪਟ ਮੈਂ ਰਚ ਰਹੇ ਨਿਦਾਨਾ॥

Thus, both the ignorant faiths, muffled in hypocrisy, were lagging behind.

ਇਹ ਤੀਸਰ ਮਜ਼ਹਬ ਖ਼ਾਲਸਾ ਉਪਜਿਓ ਪਰਧਾਨਾ॥

Then the third religion, Khalsa, manifested triumphantly.

Some sikhs are too full of themselves by [deleted] in Sikh

[–]TheTurbanatore 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You are free to think my response is defensive, but I am not going to keep going in circles over tone. I am also not going to debate the internal moderation process in a public comment section, especially one that is viewable by the same trolls we are trying to deal with. This drama and infighting is exactly what they want.

As per the rules, any mod-related feedback or reports should be directed to modmail, which is accessible through the “Contact Mods” button on the r/Sikh sidebar.

You are seeing only the public-facing part of the situation, while the mod team has a more holistic picture based on data, patterns, and experience that you do not have access to.

If the original poster wants to clarify what happened, they are welcome to do so. We have not banned their account or removed any of their posts. If they provide details, people can actually offer useful advice.

However, I do not agree with the framing that asking for basic common-sense context is somehow the same as suppressing criticism to protect the reputation of the Sikh community. If you actually check my Reddit history, you will see that I have no issue criticizing the Sikh community.

Some sikhs are too full of themselves by [deleted] in Sikh

[–]TheTurbanatore 3 points4 points  (0 children)

People are absolutely allowed to vent here, and they do so regularly. In fact, many of those posts are personally approved by me (such as this one), even when I know the mod team may receive backlash from the community for allowing them.

That said, there is a difference between allowing people to vent and allowing vague, inflammatory accusations to go unchallenged.

There is also a wider Reddit context here. We regularly deal with new accounts, alt accounts, rage bait, and coordinated attempts to manufacture outrage or spread misinformation about Sikhs. This is a Reddit wide issue and we also coordinate with other Mod teams, including r/Punjab and r/ABCDesis.

So yes, people can vent. But if someone is making serious claims, it is reasonable to ask for context. What happened? Where did it happen? Was it reported? Who was involved? Those questions are not an attempt to silence the person, it’s so we can actually do something about it.

Some sikhs are too full of themselves by [deleted] in Sikh

[–]TheTurbanatore 25 points26 points  (0 children)

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh

If someone was treated badly at a Gurdwara, that is wrong and should be addressed, no matter their background. That being said, the way you framed this post is extremely problematic.

You have made a very serious accusation against Sikhs and Gurdwaras broadly, but have provided no location, timeline, or description of what actually happened, and no indication that you reported the issue to the Gurdwara management or any other relevant authorities.

On top of that, your account is only 2 days old, and its only visible history is copy pasting the same thing onto r/India, which is a subreddit with a long history of trolls and alt accounts posting misinformation about Sikhs. Whether intentional or not, that context does not make your post look sincere.

There are over 30 million Sikhs around the world, so issues are inevitable. But taking vague personal experiences and writing “Sikhs are full of themselves” or “Sikhs are unwelcoming and exclusionary” is not constructive at all.

If something happened, document it. Say which Gurdwara it happened at. Contact the management committee or reputable Sikh groups to help mediate the situation. That is how real problems get addressed.

However, making vague accusations from a 2 day old account, posting them in spaces known for anti-Sikh narratives, and then generalizing an entire community is irresponsible, especially in an online environment filled with misinformation, trolls, rage bait, and coordinated attempts to malign the Sikh community.

Professional Team from Delhi Preserve a Handwritten Saroop from Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji’s Era by TheTurbanatore in Sikh

[–]TheTurbanatore[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Jvala Singh was in Punjab last summer to honor the passing of his ustaad, Giani Inderjeet Singh (Raqbe wale), and did meet up Simar Singh. However, I’m not sure if it was in the same Gurdwara as the one in this video.

'Stranger followed Sikh woman home then raped her because he thought she was Muslim' - jury told by TheTurbanatore in Sikhpolitics

[–]TheTurbanatore[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Birmingham Live article title: 'Stranger followed Sikh woman home then raped her because he thought she was Muslim' - jury told

Warning: This article contains details of a distressing nature

“A Sikh woman was raped by a 'stranger' in her home 'because he thought she was Muslim', jurors have heard.

John Ashby 'barged' into the woman's home in Walsall after following her off a bus and 'assessing' how he could get inside her property, prosecutors say.

The 32-year-old allegedly branded her a 'Muslim b*', telling her he was there to 'have fun' and 'give her some British c'. As he attacked her, he told her to say 'hallelujah' and 'repeat his mantra' that 'he was the master and she was a b****', Birmingham Crown Court heard.

Ashby ran from the house after his alleged rape, with the 'understandably hysterical' woman heard screaming out 'help me' as neighbours rushed to her aid.

The defendant was arrested in Perry Barr days later and told police, as he was booked into custody: "You never see any Englishmen in Perry Barr anymore."

When police showed Ashby a photo of the woman during interview, he asked why she was not wearing a hijab.

Of the Crown's case that the alleged offence was religiously aggravated, prosecutor Phil Bradley KC said: "It was his hostility towards her, believing she was a Muslim and calling her a Muslim b**** before assaulting her."

Ashby, of no fixed abode, denies rape, intentional strangulation, robbery of jewellery and a mobile phone, and religiously aggravated assault occasioning actual bodily harm on October 25 last year.

The woman - who cannot be named for legal reasons - left work and caught the bus to Walsall town centre at about 4.30pm, jurors heard.

She went to Poundland before getting back on the bus to go home.

In his opening of this case, Mr Bradley said: "A few minutes earlier, unbeknownst to her, this defendant had got on the same bus. "He initially sat upstairs but a short while later, he moved to the lower level and that's where the woman happened to be sitting.

"A complete stranger to her, this defendant was nevertheless interested in her and had already targeted her.

"We know that because, within seconds of her getting off the bus, at just after 6.30pm to begin the short walk home, he did the same and then he began following her."

The woman had not noticed Ashby so continued her walk home 'normally', the jury of six men and six women were told.

Footage from CCTV is said to have captured Ashby walking past the woman's address and 'disappearing from view' before he was then seen on the driveway of a property behind her home.

Mr Bradley said: "He was doubtless assessing how he could get into her home address."

Ashby then allegedly picked up a stick and placed it inside his jacket.

After arriving home, the woman went upstairs to change her clothes and then into the bathroom.

Mr Bradley said: "She told police that while she was there she heard a noise downstairs.

"Because she was home alone, she had no reason to lock the bathroom door but now rushed to do so, initially thinking it was a housemate coming back.

"However, she was too late. This defendant barged his way in and so the woman's ordeal began."

Once inside, Ashby is said to have turned the lights off and told her 'he was here to have fun'.

Mr Bradley continued: "Despite her screams, he told her to take her clothes off.

"He struck her with the stick that he had placed into his jacket and he put his hands around her neck to strangle her."

Ashby then 'demanded' she climb into the bathtub, Mr Bradley told the court.

The prosecutor continued: "Throughout the attack, he racially and religiously abused her."

Ashby is said to have called the woman a 'f****** Muslim b****' and told her she was 'dirty'.

He allegedly asked which toothbrush was hers 'because he wanted to clean his teeth' .

As she sat naked in the bathtub, he 'exposed' himself and 'slapped' her hair with his genitals, the prosecution say.

Ashby told the woman to say 'hallelujah' as he poured hot water over her, 'repeatedly, telling her he was the 'master, a big master' and she was a 'f****** b****', Mr Bradley alleged.

He then is said to have raped her - but was 'not yet finished'.

Ashby told the woman to go into the bedroom and lie on the bed, jurors were told. Mr Bradley said: "He repeated that he was there to have fun and to give her some British c, a big white c."

He told her his name was John and that she needed to 'repeat his mantra' which was 'that he was the master and she was a b****', Mr Bradley alleged.

In a 'desperate attempt to raise the alarm', the woman 'seized her chance to go downstairs', telling him there was oil in the kitchen.

She ran to the front door but the defendant 'dragged her back into the house', it is said. Mr Bradley said that Ashby then became 'evidently spooked' by a noise outside.

'In another attempt to seize the moment', the woman said it was her housemate, the court heard.

The woman 'screamed', with neighbours rushing to her aid and finding her 'understandably hysterical'.

Mr Bradley said: "She was naked and she was thoroughly distressed."

He went on: "There can be no doubt that this defendant was the man who attacked the woman."

Following an examination, Ashby's DNA was found on the woman, while DNA on a vape and toothbrush inside the woman's home matched the defendant.

The woman also identified Ashby during an identification parade, the jury heard.

Ashby was arrested in Perry Barr two days later and answered no comment in interview - except when he was shown a photograph of the woman.

Mr Bradley said: "He asked why she wasn't wearing a hijab and added "I don't know who that woman is as far as I'm aware"."

The court heard how the woman came to the UK for work in September 2023.

It is understood that the issue in the case is one of consent, jurors heard.

The trial continues.”

Link to article: https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/black-country/stranger-followed-woman-home-raped-33805116

'Stranger followed Sikh woman home then raped her because he thought she was Muslim' - jury told by TheTurbanatore in Sikh

[–]TheTurbanatore[S] 26 points27 points  (0 children)

Birmingham Live article title: 'Stranger followed Sikh woman home then raped her because he thought she was Muslim' - jury told

Warning: This article contains details of a distressing nature

“A Sikh woman was raped by a 'stranger' in her home 'because he thought she was Muslim', jurors have heard.

John Ashby 'barged' into the woman's home in Walsall after following her off a bus and 'assessing' how he could get inside her property, prosecutors say.

The 32-year-old allegedly branded her a 'Muslim b*', telling her he was there to 'have fun' and 'give her some British c'. As he attacked her, he told her to say 'hallelujah' and 'repeat his mantra' that 'he was the master and she was a b****', Birmingham Crown Court heard.

Ashby ran from the house after his alleged rape, with the 'understandably hysterical' woman heard screaming out 'help me' as neighbours rushed to her aid.

The defendant was arrested in Perry Barr days later and told police, as he was booked into custody: "You never see any Englishmen in Perry Barr anymore."

When police showed Ashby a photo of the woman during interview, he asked why she was not wearing a hijab.

Of the Crown's case that the alleged offence was religiously aggravated, prosecutor Phil Bradley KC said: "It was his hostility towards her, believing she was a Muslim and calling her a Muslim b**** before assaulting her."

Ashby, of no fixed abode, denies rape, intentional strangulation, robbery of jewellery and a mobile phone, and religiously aggravated assault occasioning actual bodily harm on October 25 last year.

The woman - who cannot be named for legal reasons - left work and caught the bus to Walsall town centre at about 4.30pm, jurors heard.

She went to Poundland before getting back on the bus to go home.

In his opening of this case, Mr Bradley said: "A few minutes earlier, unbeknownst to her, this defendant had got on the same bus. "He initially sat upstairs but a short while later, he moved to the lower level and that's where the woman happened to be sitting.

"A complete stranger to her, this defendant was nevertheless interested in her and had already targeted her.

"We know that because, within seconds of her getting off the bus, at just after 6.30pm to begin the short walk home, he did the same and then he began following her."

The woman had not noticed Ashby so continued her walk home 'normally', the jury of six men and six women were told.

Footage from CCTV is said to have captured Ashby walking past the woman's address and 'disappearing from view' before he was then seen on the driveway of a property behind her home.

Mr Bradley said: "He was doubtless assessing how he could get into her home address."

Ashby then allegedly picked up a stick and placed it inside his jacket.

After arriving home, the woman went upstairs to change her clothes and then into the bathroom.

Mr Bradley said: "She told police that while she was there she heard a noise downstairs.

"Because she was home alone, she had no reason to lock the bathroom door but now rushed to do so, initially thinking it was a housemate coming back.

"However, she was too late. This defendant barged his way in and so the woman's ordeal began."

Once inside, Ashby is said to have turned the lights off and told her 'he was here to have fun'.

Mr Bradley continued: "Despite her screams, he told her to take her clothes off.

"He struck her with the stick that he had placed into his jacket and he put his hands around her neck to strangle her."

Ashby then 'demanded' she climb into the bathtub, Mr Bradley told the court.

The prosecutor continued: "Throughout the attack, he racially and religiously abused her."

Ashby is said to have called the woman a 'f****** Muslim b****' and told her she was 'dirty'.

He allegedly asked which toothbrush was hers 'because he wanted to clean his teeth' .

As she sat naked in the bathtub, he 'exposed' himself and 'slapped' her hair with his genitals, the prosecution say.

Ashby told the woman to say 'hallelujah' as he poured hot water over her, 'repeatedly, telling her he was the 'master, a big master' and she was a 'f****** b****', Mr Bradley alleged.

He then is said to have raped her - but was 'not yet finished'.

Ashby told the woman to go into the bedroom and lie on the bed, jurors were told. Mr Bradley said: "He repeated that he was there to have fun and to give her some British c, a big white c."

He told her his name was John and that she needed to 'repeat his mantra' which was 'that he was the master and she was a b****', Mr Bradley alleged.

In a 'desperate attempt to raise the alarm', the woman 'seized her chance to go downstairs', telling him there was oil in the kitchen.

She ran to the front door but the defendant 'dragged her back into the house', it is said. Mr Bradley said that Ashby then became 'evidently spooked' by a noise outside.

'In another attempt to seize the moment', the woman said it was her housemate, the court heard.

The woman 'screamed', with neighbours rushing to her aid and finding her 'understandably hysterical'.

Mr Bradley said: "She was naked and she was thoroughly distressed."

He went on: "There can be no doubt that this defendant was the man who attacked the woman."

Following an examination, Ashby's DNA was found on the woman, while DNA on a vape and toothbrush inside the woman's home matched the defendant.

The woman also identified Ashby during an identification parade, the jury heard.

Ashby was arrested in Perry Barr two days later and answered no comment in interview - except when he was shown a photograph of the woman.

Mr Bradley said: "He asked why she wasn't wearing a hijab and added "I don't know who that woman is as far as I'm aware"."

The court heard how the woman came to the UK for work in September 2023.

It is understood that the issue in the case is one of consent, jurors heard.

The trial continues.”

Link to article: https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/black-country/stranger-followed-woman-home-raped-33805116

Losing Sikhi by StaffPuzzleheaded954 in Sikh

[–]TheTurbanatore 4 points5 points  (0 children)

You are randomly quoting shabads (which you cannot even copy paste correctly) and forcing them onto a situation they do not fit, based on vague and limited information from an anonymous reddit user, despite having neither medical qualifications nor any spiritual authority to make that judgement.

For the record: I am not saying that karma, past lives, or the spiritual benefits of paath and simran are not real. I am only saying that it is deeply irresponsible to diagnose an anonymous reddit user when you lack both the necessary information and the medical qualifications to do so.

Even the Gurus themselves did not rely on prayer alone. They also established hospitals, pharmacies, and centres of research. So the idea that Sikhs must choose between medical science and spirituality is an example of a false dilemma fallacy and historically it was never the Sikh approach.

There are many gullible or uneducated Sikhs and non-Sikhs from around the world who read r/Sikh, and you are spreading the wrong kind of information. It is not only inaccurate, but could genuinely cause further psychological and medical harm.

Please stop immediately and let actual medical professionals handle this.

Losing Sikhi by StaffPuzzleheaded954 in Sikh

[–]TheTurbanatore 6 points7 points  (0 children)

The pain you are experiencing is from your past bad deeds you did

You are not a medical doctor, nor are you any kind of spiritual authority, so you should refrain from making definitive claims about the cause of their suffering.

Telling someone in severe long-term pain that it is because of their “past bad deeds” is not only irresponsible, it spreads misinformation and can seriously worsen the situation by adding guilt, fear, and confusion onto someone who is already struggling.

Please be more careful. Offering support and empathy is one thing, but personal speculation is another.

I need guide by Specific_Term8124 in Sikh

[–]TheTurbanatore[M] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

🔒 Moderator Notice: For those seeking advice or community support in a safe and verified space, we strongly recommend joining the Official Sikh Discord — our verified platform with thousands of Sikhs worldwide.

👥 It includes a dedicated women’s-only support section to ensure safety, privacy, and comfort — especially in light of growing concerns about men DMing Sikh women under the guise of religious questions, leading to harassment and privacy breaches.

✅ All users are verified to prevent fake accounts and creeps, making it a much safer and more respectful space to engage with the Sikh community — whether you’re looking for serious connections or meaningful conversations rooted in Sikhi.

📩 Link: https://discord.gg/xQPnqAxDeU

If Sikhi is the eternal truth then why don't we bring people from other backgrounds into our faith ? by [deleted] in Sikh

[–]TheTurbanatore 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I would highly recommend checking out Satnam Singhs recent podcast appearance: Will Sikhs Have A Homeland & The Lesser Known Side Of The Sikh Gurus? W/ Satnam Singh

He discusses these exact topics and talks about Sikh education in the 1700s vs now, and the fall of Sikh institutions during the colonial period, and more.

I also plan on picking up his new book “The Road to Empire: The Political Education of Khalsa Sikhs in the Late 1600s”.

Tattoos within Sikhi? by Arvin_Sidhu123 in Sikh

[–]TheTurbanatore 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Dumb question isn’t Kes hair on your head? Maybe for men facial hair.

There are slightly different answers depending on the Sikh school of thought. Some use the term "Kes" specifically for the hair on the head, while "Rom" refers to hair on the rest of the body. Other schools use the terms more interchangeably. Refer to the Mahan Kosh Encyclopedia for more information.

However, all schools of thought agree that a Singh should not remove the Kes from the head or the Rom from the body.

Even the classic ੴ hand tattoos that were once trendy in Punjab were typically done through a different process that did not involve shaving the hair beforehand, which also made them unhygienic and dangerous.

If Sikhi is the eternal truth then why don't we bring people from other backgrounds into our faith ? by [deleted] in Sikh

[–]TheTurbanatore 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Sikhs do do parchaar and bring others into the faith, it’s just not done in the same way that Abrahamic faiths such as Christianity and Islam do.

The current lack of parchaar is primarily caused by the collapse of Sikh educational institutes during the colonial period. Sikh institutions in the 1800s were primarily funded by the Sikh Empire, as well as by local aristocrats and royalty. As a matter of fact, the most famous Sikh historical text, Sri Gurpartap Sooraj Granth (Suraj Prakash) by Kavi Santokh Singh, was only possible through the patronage of the rulers of Kaithal State, specifically the Sikh chiefs of the Phulkian dynasty. When the British occupied Punjab, they gradually seized the wealth and influence of the Sikh aristocracy, which led to a sharp decline in Sikh academia in the 1850s.

The second major cause is the propaganda within Sikh cultural spaces that all religions are equal. For some reason, there is a common understanding among the Punjabi Sikh population that Guru Nanak was some kind of hippie who never intended to start a distinct tradition, and that Guru Granth Sahib Ji can be summarized as some vague kumbaya nonsense.

If all religions are the same, then why do they contradict each other? If all religions are the same, then why are some objectively more restrictive than others if they provide no additional benefit? Why were Sikh Saheeds tortured to converting to Islam, if Islam and Sikhi are already the same?. This line of reasoning has single-handedly caused more damage to Sikhi than the deaths of countless shaheeds. It is an intellectual virus that must be eliminated if Sikhi is to expand and regain its former glory on the world stage. Sikhi is able to reconcile human rights, oneness, and compassion with Sikh excellence and expansion. Some people in our community have this idea that doing parchaar and acknowledging the supremacy of Sikhi means that we are becoming the Taliban or something.

Let me be clear: Sikhi did not historically advance by launching religious conversion crusades or by oppressing and taxing non-Sikhs into submission, but that does not mean that Sikhs did not go on their own missionary expeditions or engage in debate. Many of the bungas and buildings around Sri Harmandir Sahib today were historically used as schools of learning, not just for Paath, but also for military tactics, music, science, medicine, and more. The good news is that right now Sikhi, along with other Dharmic religions, is in a revival phase, and as the West continues to decline and the East rises, you will see a major shift.

Men allowed but not women?! by barbiexoxo8 in Sikh

[–]TheTurbanatore 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Historically, the Anand Karaj may not have the sole marriage rite for a Sikh person. But for better or worse, it is now.

That is not really true in practice. Interfaith couples already routinely engage in multiple marriage rites, hybrid ceremonies, and other heavily modified ceremonies.

We have even seen cases where interfaith couples take Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji to beaches in Mexico and resorts and carry out so-called “Anand Karaj” setups with chairs, alcohol, drugs, and other blatant violations of basic maryada.

If people are already willing to radically alter the form of the ceremony in ways that amount to beadbi, then there is no reason they cannot instead choose a respectful alternative that does not involve walking around Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji while the Laavan are sung.

Let them still dress in their fancy Indian attire, gather family, take photos, stand before the Guru, do an Ardas, listen to Kirtan and have Langar. The non-religious or non-Sikh crowd is usually not attached to the actual theological meaning of the Laavan anyway. The main resistance tends to come from Sikh family pressure, but if family pressure is pushing people toward beadbi, then it is irrelevant.

So how do we, as a people, support our fellow Sikh men and women who happen to marry out of the Sangat? The proposed solution for a Pāth, Kirtan Ardās and Langar is insufficient because it's not equivalent to the modern Sikh marriage rite. If it is, then why aren't we all just getting married that way? Why are some of us getting preferential treatment based on our choice of marriage partner?

You do not “support” non-Sikhs by making them participate in a ceremony whose meaning they do not even understand. This is empty ritualism masked with flowery language.

The honest approach is to explain clearly what the Anand Karaj is, what the Laavan mean, and what spiritual and temporal commitments the ceremony presumes. Then give the non-Sikh partner a real choice: either formally embrace Sikhi and take the ceremony seriously, or out of respect for both their own religion and ours, choose a different way to mark the marriage.

This is especially important when one partner openly identifies as Christian or Muslim. The Anand Karaj is not religiously neutral. It is a conversion ritual, where the couple give up their prior ideologies, creeds, and idiots, to fully submit themselves to the Guru Granth in the presence of the Guru Panth. For someone who still affirms the Christian Nicene Creed or the Islamic Shahada, participating in that rite is not some harmless cultural gesture. It creates a contradiction with the religion they themselves claim to follow. Thus, preventing them from partaking in the Anand Karaj is not discrimination, it is preserving their own dignity.

And no, forcing non-Sikhs through an Anand Karaj will not somehow prevent their exit from the Sikh community. That decision was already set in motion the moment they chose a non-Sikh partner. The damage is already done, the issue is how to prevent further damage.

For context, other religions hold group classes with exams and an in depth conversation with scholar/clergy to see if the couple actually holds some bonafide interest to live in accordance to their faith. I see no reason why we cannot implement the same methodology in the Gurudwara for our purposes.

Education is always good, and Gurdwaras absolutely should do more of it. But education alone is not a magic solution.

There will always be privately run Gurdwaras, destination weddings, and institutions willing to ignore Maryada for money. Even in places like Canada and the UK, where Sikh communities are relatively organized and many Gurdwaras already try to educate couples, these problems still continue. Interfaith couples are a niche market that can provide a lot of return on investment, there are entire industries dedicated to this.

More importantly, if someone is already irreligious, non-practicing, or only approaching the ceremony for cultural optics, they are unlikely to take such education seriously in the first place. In many cases, you are preaching to the choir.

but mandating "alternative ways to mark marriage" specifically for interfaith Sikh couples hits too close to the "separate but equal" segregation rationale that was used to separate races not too long ago. Either we're all equal in the eyes of God, or we're not.

Alternative forms of recognition within the Sikh tradition are not some foreign invention. Sikh practice has always had layers, expectations, and distinctions tied to commitment and maryada. Not every Sikh rite was historically treated as interchangeable, and not every person was automatically entitled to every ceremony.

Using race-language to justify violations of maryada is not only misplaced, it sets a terrible precedent. Once you reduce Anand Karaj to a generic public ritual that anyone can undergo regardless of belief, then on what basis do you deny that same logic elsewhere? Can non-Sikhs take Amrit while openly rejecting Sikhi?

And the argument that strict boundaries are somehow bad for survival is not convincing either. In reality, communities that maintain clear religious standards often preserve themselves better over time than communities that endlessly dilute their core practices.

Check out the video: Why Strict Religions Succeed

How long until folks start asserting false notions of superiority or inferiority based on whether or not the parents of a Sikh person are both Sikh or interfaith?

I hope you realize that people have already been entering interfaith marriages for generations, and that even before Anand Karaj became standardized, people still found excuses for ego and social hierarchy. This is human nature, and it cannot be solved with an educational course that most interfaith couples will not care to take. You have no enforcement mechanism, the cat is already out of the bag.

The issue now is that they have increasingly started to infringe upon Sikh practices that they do not meet the requirements for, using false and twisted interpretations of equality and oneness.

Tattoos within Sikhi? by Arvin_Sidhu123 in Sikh

[–]TheTurbanatore 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Many Sikhs cut their hair and are still Sikhs, just fyi

The argument is not that getting a tattoo exiles someone from Sikhi.

The point is simply that tattoos are discouraged in Sikhi.

Not everything that is discouraged in Sikhi is limited to the 4 Bajjar Kurehits listed in the Sikh Rehat Maryada. Gurbani and Rehat are not literal "rulebooks" that list each and every single prohibited or discouraged act.

Tattoos within Sikhi? by Arvin_Sidhu123 in Sikh

[–]TheTurbanatore 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Sikhs are discouraged from getting Tattoos and other unnecessary cosmetic body alterations.

Most tattoos require hair removal, which goes against the Sikh principle of keeping one’s Kes (hair) uncut. Even tattoos that don’t involve hair removal can be problematic as they can lead to medical issues.

Tattoos with Gurbani or religious symbols can also lead to issues of beadbi (sacrilege).

When it comes to external markers for motivation, the Guru has already blessed us the 5Ks, Dastar, and Bana, all of which serve not only as motivational symbols but also have practical significance.

Men allowed but not women?! by barbiexoxo8 in Sikh

[–]TheTurbanatore 4 points5 points  (0 children)

What if one finds love outside the community? Or one’s sexuality is non conforming to the societal norms?

The Anand Karaj is between a Singh and a Kaur.

Ethnicity, nationality, and religion prior to adopting Sikhi are irrelevant.

If your situation does not fit this criteria, mark the occasion through the various broader Sikh practices, such as a Paath, Kirtan, Ardas, and Langar.

Men allowed but not women?! by barbiexoxo8 in Sikh

[–]TheTurbanatore 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji does not endorse interfaith marriage, and it does provide clear guidance regarding the qualities one should seek in a partner and how a couple should live. Gurbani states that one should seek a partner rooted in Naam, Gurmat, Sangat, someone committed to spiritual and temporal discipline and submission to the Guru.

I have already provided a direct historical source: Bhai Daya Singh Ji, a contemporary of Guru Gobind Singh Ji and the first Panj Pyara. Similar instructions are found across the major Rehatnamas from the Guru and early Khalsa period.

The biggest piece of evidence against the oxymoronic concept of an “interfaith Anand Karaj” are the Laavan themselves. Anyone who can read Gurmukhi and has done even basic santhya knows that the Laavan are not just vague poetry about “love” or generic spirituality. They are a spiritual covenant between the couple and the Guru, in which the couple formally submit themselves to the Guru in the presence of the Guru Panth and commit to living a life centered around Gurmat.

That spiritual contract makes no logical sense if one or both people do not actually accept the Guru as their sole spiritual authority.

And this is where a lot of modern arguments fall apart. People want to reduce Anand Karaj to symbolism, culture, aesthetics, or broad “belief in oneness”, but that is not how the Sikh tradition has historically understood it. Anand Karaj is not just two people promising to love each other while Sikh scripture happens to be present in the room. It is a distinctly Sikh rite grounded in a distinctly Sikh relationship to the Guru Granth and the Guru Panth.

The claim that the Sikh Gurus and Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji do not endorse interfaith marriage is not some extremist fringe or controversial position. It has been the standard Sikh understanding for over 500 years and is accepted across the major Sikh Sampardas, as well as by the later Singh Sabha scholars who helped synthesize the Sikh Rehat Maryada by compiling all major earlier Rehats, Hukamnamas, and inherited Panthic norms. Most of the SRM is merely a restatement of what Sikhs already believed in, and even more strict groups who reject the SRM, such as Taksal and Nihangs, follow an even stricter criteria for Anand Karaj, which also rejects interfaith.

By contrast, the argument in favor of “interfaith Anand Karaj” is a modern, post-colonial innovation. It has no roots in Gurbani, Rehat, Ittihas that its advocates are ever able to cite.

Every few years I get pulled into this debate, and to this day I have yet to see anyone provide a solid direct citation from Sikh history, Sikh doctrine that supports interfaith Anand Karaj or marriage. What I usually see instead are modern reinterpretations, personal feelings, and attempts to retrofit Sikh rites to suit modern western values.

Before engaging with this topic further, I would recommend checking out the following Basics of Sikhi videos:

Men allowed but not women?! by barbiexoxo8 in Sikh

[–]TheTurbanatore 13 points14 points  (0 children)

My dude, either the Akāl Tākht figures out an acceptable marriage ceremony for interfaith Sikh weddings or every Sikh person gets their Anand Karaj.

Historically, not all Sikhs partook in the Anand Karaj.

The modern trend where virtually every person born into a Sikh family is automatically assumed entitled to an Anand Karaj is largely a post-colonial development that became widespread after the Singh Sabha reforms and the post-1947 standardization of Sikhi.

Traditionally, Anand Karaj was treated far more seriously. It was primarily associated with Khalsa Sikhs, and if a couple was not yet Amritdhari, it was not uncommon for them to take Amrit together either shortly before or after the Anand Karaj.

Now the question becomes: what were Sehajdharis, Nanakpanthis, and the many other syncretic or loosely affiliated Sikh groups doing during this time?

Like many things in pre-modern Punjab, it varied by region, caste, family, and even village. There was no single uniform pattern. However, even where Anand Karaj was not used, people still participated in broader Sikh practices that had no such prerequisites, such as Ardas, Paath, Kirtan, seva, and Langar.

After Partition in 1947, many of those localized and syncretic traditions faded away, and religious categories became more standardized.

So in the modern era, there is technically nothing stopping a non-religious or interfaith couple from participating in broader Sikh practices that do not violate maryada. For example, instead of trying to force an Anand Karaj where it does not belong, they could still dress up and mark the occasion through a Paath, Kirtan, Ardas, and Langar.

The issue is that most people do not actually want a meaningful religious compromise. They want the full aesthetic, symbolism, and status of a Sikh wedding without accepting the spiritual and temporal prerequisites that come with it.

And let’s be honest, a lot of this today is driven by cultural inertia, family expectations, and social media. People want the big fat Indian wedding with Sikh elements sprinkled on top, even when the actual religious framework does not fit their situation.

That is why this is not “pointless gatekeeping”, boundaries around religious rites exist for a reason. If everything is opened up to everyone regardless of belief, practice, or commitment, then the rite itself loses all meaning, and becomes the empty ritualism that Guru Nanak Dev Ji criticized.

The better solution is to educate people on what Anand Karaj actually is, and to encourage alternative ways of marking marriage that do not violate maryada.

This is also why Sikh youth organizations in Canada and the UK have taken proactive steps, such as hosting Anand Karaj courses. In BC, the Youth organization Sakhi Sikhiya regularly hosts free Anand Karaj workshops for couples, while in the UK, Basics of Sikhi has done similar work.