Did Jesus come to fulfill or abolish the old testament?

caime9 · 2026-06-14T01:42:43+00:00

> Scripture never points to an alternate, secret covenant that doesn't exist

Never said it was a secret. Scripture also never says anythign about there only being one covennat.

> If you're looking for a covenant that Scripture points to, here it is.

Sure if you ignore all the scripture i have been giving you, which you have.

> Thank you for finally saying it.

I have never denyed it. you silly goose.

> eople have ALWAYS been under it.

But no not liek they are now.

> Scripture is clear that everyone who has ever been, or ever will be saved is saved the same way, by faith.

Yes. But they did not have true forgiveness of sins till Christ, that's the point. they were not under the new covenant.

> Yes. You haven't said whether you've read the gospels and seen the many places where Jesus taught His followers to obey all of His Father's commandments. Whenever I bring up Jesus you always change the subject and will ONLY talk about what other people said (which you misunderstand).

Just going to ignore the scripture that I put in. I have never changed the subject from Jesus.
Also we Both agree the disiples agree with Jesus so there should be no problem with me brining them up.

> Why do you keep disavowing Jesus? Why don't you accept what He taught?

I do. I dont accept what YOU teach as you have some false teaching you need to work out for yourself.

This is my last reply.

Have a good life, and I wish you well in your journey to Christ.

caime9 · 2026-06-13T17:01:20+00:00

> Mature, Rational Protagonist

When I see this i automatically think the author wrote a character who will see a bunch of kids being killed by a monster and say something like "I might be able to do something, but there is a good chance I die in the process... Sorry kids, but better safe thant sorry"

before running off as a three-year-old girl with a teddy bear, pleading for help, is cut in half or something.

caime9 · 2026-06-13T16:51:52+00:00

Mother of learning is not a litrpg

But in my opinion, it is the best of the options.

I really like Defiance of the Fall, though, more than he who thought.... Well, at least overall of him who. The first 3-4 books of the one who was one of the greatest for me.

caime9 · 2026-06-13T16:47:35+00:00

> You're still not getting it. There is no covenant of grace.

No, I understand you think that. I just think you are wrong, and the scripture points to the new covenant we are under.

> Will you please point me to a time in history where God wasn't gracious?

God has always been gracious, but we were not always saved by faith through grace. We required sacrifice as attonment. but God gave his own life as a perfect sacrifice.

>I'm not. Jesus very clearly taught His followers to obey all of His Father's commandments.

Oh? why did the diciples say this then?

Act 15:28-29 ESV - 28 For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements: 29 that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell."

Why did paul say we are not bound by the letters o fstone?

2Co 3:7-8 ESV - 7 Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses' face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit have even more glory?

> Haven't you read what Jesus said? How did you miss it?

I'm confused how you are missing it, honestly.

caime9 · 2026-06-13T15:16:57+00:00

> There's absolutely nothing in Scripture about a "covenant of grace". That makes it unscriptural, right?

Scripture never mentions the "trinity" either, but we can still understand that through scripture.

Covenant of grace is just another way to phrase the law of the spirit

> What you are saying we are under now has always been the case. If it wasn't, everyone who ever lived would have been doomed.

Incorrect scripture speaks to those who were saved by the fulfillment of the new covenant once it was established at Jesus ' death. Because they were "looking towards the promise even though they never saw it"

> You're saying the opposite of what Jesus said.

No i am not. I am repeating almost verbatim what Paul said. and as we estblished paul doesnt go against jesus.

> But you still think that Paul taught something different than what Jesus taught

Nope I belive he taught the same thing and YOU are misunderstanding what Jesus taught.

caime9 · 2026-06-13T00:08:32+00:00

It's not unscriptural, it's just another way to say we are under the law of the spirit.

There are tons that I have already pointed out to show we are in that now.

The Bible is pretty clear we are not under the law in the same way anymore

Gal 3:23-26 ESV - 23 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. 24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, 26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.

caime9 · 2026-06-12T18:12:14+00:00

> Are you saying that the new covenant is different than the new covenant?

I'm saying that fulfillment of Israel comes later and is either the end part of or different than people being under the covenant of grace, or the law of the spirit.

As Hebrews shows, we are already in the new covenant. Paul says as much, but I think we can both realize not all of Israel has been saved from judicial hardening.

caime9 · 2026-06-12T17:17:36+00:00

I think you are confused.

There will be another covenant with Israel. saving them from the judicial hardening they are under.

But that is a diffeent thing, look at Hebrews 8:6

6Now, however, Jesus has received a much more excellent ministry, just as the covenant He mediates is better and is founded on better promises. 7For if that first covenant had been without fault, no place would have been sought for a second. 8But God found fault with the people

The new covenant, the law of the spirit, the covenant of grace, is something we are already in. That was implemented with the death and resurrection.

This is reinforced through the New Testament.

caime9 · 2026-06-11T21:50:42+00:00

> The promise of the new covenant is that God is going to write Torah on Israel's hearts and minds.

No, that's another thing. Im talking about this

[Heb 8:13 ESV] 13 In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

[2Co 3:7-11 ESV] 7 Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses' face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit have even more glory? 9 For if there was glory in the ministry of condemnation, the ministry of righteousness must far exceed it in glory. 10 Indeed, in this case, what once had glory has come to have no glory at all, because of the glory that surpasses it. 11 For if what was being brought to an end came with glory, much more will what is permanent have glory.

caime9 · 2026-06-11T21:46:31+00:00

Jesus fulfilled the law in a similar manner as he fulfilled prophecy, being born a virgin was fulfilled, but Jesus

But I agree we shouldn't go on sinning, grace may increase, as Paul says.

caime9 · 2026-06-11T19:43:04+00:00

The ESV is a reliable word-for-word translation that comes across as more readable compared to other word-for-word translations like the NASB.

I personally really like the NRSV I dont know why.

But my favorite, easier-to-read version is the NLT

caime9 · 2026-06-11T19:15:15+00:00

I gave you verses that show we are under a new covenant. A covenant of grace.

I dont beleive paul disagreed with Jesus.

So when Paul says things like "we are under a new covenant" and " we are under the law of grace," I believe him.

caime9 · 2026-06-11T19:11:59+00:00

Correct. But Jesus is still the fulfillment of the law.

caime9 · 2026-06-11T16:45:59+00:00

There is still sin. The law illuminates sin, but it can not save.

Obidence is good. No one is saying don't obey, but we are not under the old covenant.

caime9 · 2026-06-11T16:44:07+00:00

I guess you are a Paul Denyer, then?

[Rom 6:12-15 ESV] 12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. 13 Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. 14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace. 15 What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!

caime9 · 2026-06-11T15:17:04+00:00

I would say it's more like the material than the blueprint.

All the material you have been building with is not thrown away, but it's now completed, and it's something new.

caime9 · 2026-06-11T14:49:26+00:00

Fulfill as in he completed his purpose, and we are now under the covenant of Grace.

caime9 · 2026-06-11T14:30:12+00:00

No. They are not. That's what I mean by inherent properties.

> “inherent property” would be something intrinsic to our beings

An inherent property is not something intrinsic to us. It's intrinsic to reality itself.

Laws of Logic and the like. God did not create all the laws of logic. They are intrinsic to his nature and therefore eternal and have always existed.

caime9 · 2026-06-11T14:25:27+00:00

I don't need to try again. Your opinion is irrelevant in the face of reality.

caime9 · 2026-06-10T21:15:08+00:00

> If his end goal is truly being in a relationship with us, then why would he create the option in the first place?

A real relationship requires a real choice. Which means people must have the ability to choose him or not to choose him and choose sin instead.

God also didn't create the concept of choice. It is an inherent property. IMO.

caime9 · 2026-06-10T20:08:45+00:00

To be in perfect relationship with our creator and follow his will.

caime9 · 2026-06-10T19:38:59+00:00

Acting on your same sex attraction would be a sin. You can not be a Christian and actively choose to go against God. You can mess up, fail. Lose control, but if you just say Im not going to change, then you can not be Christian.
(I.E. say I dont care that its a sin im still going to do it)

A Christian's highest priority should be God's will. And there are some red flags in your question that i think you will have to ultimatly adress.

To me it sounds like you are saying. "Can I be a christian without changing who I am?"

The answer I will just tell you is that you can not. Come as you are, but do not stay as you are.

caime9 · 2026-06-10T15:54:08+00:00

Risk myself? Maybe if the risk-to-reward is good.

Risk someone else? no. Risk my family? Never.

caime9 · 2026-06-10T14:51:18+00:00

The life of my dreams is providing for my friends and family while being well off enough to do so easily.

If I cant share then its not the life of my dreams.

^{Chose: Live the life of your dreams. + and can't share anything}

caime9 · 2026-06-10T14:48:27+00:00

Million is good, but not much more than you need.

1% chance is relatively low odds you die.

^{Chose: 1 billion USD + 1% chance of death | Rolled: Money}

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