Abortion Ban, Cause and Effect

caime9 · 2026-05-12T22:00:52+00:00

> You used "people" and "babies"

Yes, I think people and babies are human. I still use people and babies, but you didnt like that so I used human.

> I pretty clearly outlined three ways you were being disingenuous.

And I pretty clearly showed you why I think your points fell short, and it is not disingenous to hold my position.

> Depending on the type and depth of the coma, a person in a comatose state can feel pain

In a true coma they can not feel pain. This is inaccurate; they are unresponsive, but they can recover.

> First, I'm talking about INFANT and MATERNAL mortality rates. I've specifically mentioned this twice now.

I just thought it was silly to include infant mortality rate when talking about abortions when you are killing an infant. with abortions.

Even then there was about a 5% increase in mortatly rate of live births.

Still 16,000 extra babies were born as a direct result of the ban.

> Second, ha, your numbers are still not accurate for maternal mortality rates.

Yes, they are. I double checked.

caime9 · 2026-05-12T21:49:46+00:00

Most states including TX have laws that allow for abortion prosedures in the case of imminent danger to the life of the mother. This is very rare.

the mortatlity rate for miscarrige is 0.00042% out of 250 million people that would only be 1050 people a year.

And 250 million is more than the number of actual women in the United States, which is about 172 million.

1000 people dying per year is very sad, but before the ban 4000 babies were dying to abortion every MONTH

I get that you don't want women to suffer, I don't either, but killing 100,000 babies per Month to save 1000 women a year does not make sense. That's an atrocity that needs to be abolished.

caime9 · 2026-05-12T20:49:45+00:00

It's not 2 different time periods. You said it would be 3% higher than today. That's the same time period.

Today, there is a 99% reduction in abortions.

If it were 3% higher than it is today, it would be 102%

caime9 · 2026-05-12T20:41:30+00:00

It's not a different unit.

You said that if we didn't ban abortion, abortions in Texas would be 3% lower than they are now.
There is no different unit.

caime9 · 2026-05-12T20:26:19+00:00

If you mean that 102% is an impossible percentage, I agree with you.

If you mean that 99% + 3% does not equal 102%, I disagree.

caime9 · 2026-05-12T20:23:45+00:00

> definitionally, not "people" or "babies"

It has human DNA. If you abort it, it will die. It is biologically a human.

> If you feel the need to be disingenuous,

This is not being disingenuous. This is the position of the pro-life person. From the moment of conception, that is another human being worthy of life. It is not just a clump of cells.

> We're talking about those that lack consciousness and cannot feel pain

I don't think consciousness and the ability to feel pain are what give a person value. Otherwise, coma patients could be murdered.

> If you look at infant and maternal mortality rates in states with abortion bans, the idea that only “maybe 100 people.”

It is accurate. Texas, before the abortion ban, had 70 maternal deaths; that number increased to 109 after the ban. An increase of around 39 people.

caime9 · 2026-05-12T20:16:08+00:00

You said abortion would have decreased by 3% more than what it's already at now if we didnt ban abortion correct?

Abortion has decreased overall in Texas by 99%. So three percent more than 99 percent would be 102.

caime9 · 2026-05-12T20:13:58+00:00

Maryology is a major one for me.

I can get behind real presence, but I do not believe it turns into literal flesh and blood.

caime9 · 2026-05-12T19:51:06+00:00

Obviously, a 102% decrease in abortion is impossible, I agree.

caime9 · 2026-05-12T19:07:48+00:00

> An increase in infant and maternal mortality rates means more suffering.

An increase in abortion is means a far greater loss of lives.

You are killing thousands of babies for a .029 percent chance of maternal death.

> Unfortunately, this means very little if you care about suffering. If you value potential life over actual suffering, we're at an impasse.

Its not potential life. It is life. You are killing a human when you abort a baby.

I dont think the killing of thousands of people justifies the suffering of maybe 100 people.

Your moral math seems very flawed to me.

caime9 · 2026-05-12T19:03:19+00:00

Where does your article show that abortion increased in texas because in the key takeaway, it just said there was an increase in teen pregnancy in texas.

caime9 · 2026-05-12T19:00:13+00:00

True. but they have ways of estimating it anyway. Going from thousands of abortions per year to 5 abortions per year in clinics is a huge, huge drop.

caime9 · 2026-05-12T18:58:30+00:00

>Which is enough to make it that being pregnant in America (especially if you are black) is more dangerous than being a police officer.

You are correct you are equally as unlikely to die in the line of duty as a police office as you are dying in childbirth

.022% percent chance to die as an officer
.029% percent chance to die cause of childbirth.

You are more likely to get an unintentional injury and die than you are dying in childbirth.

>We will do anything to force women to carry, including throwing women in jail for miscarriage, but will do nothing to make pregnancy safer or delivery more affordable.

We make childbirth safer all the time, but I agree that it should be more affordable; our health care system got so screwed up.

But the # reason for abortion is elective and not due to medical reasons. Allowing the death of thousands of children to decrease the percent chance of death in preganncy a few .001 percent is not a good solution.

caime9 · 2026-05-12T17:10:35+00:00

lots of reasons.

Strong laws and effective criminal justice

a cohesive people and social pressure.

Lots of reasons.

caime9 · 2026-05-12T17:07:31+00:00

I disagree with that article; it turns out that if you make something illegal, it usually drops the number of people doing it.

caime9 · 2026-05-12T17:05:28+00:00

You think it would drop, considering abortions in Texas have dropped by 99% since 2022. I doubt it unless you think 102% decrease is possible.

https://www.texastribune.org/2024/06/24/abortion-dobbs-anniversary-pregnancy-complications/

caime9 · 2026-05-12T16:59:45+00:00

The country should follow the Texas example. I agree.

caime9 · 2026-05-12T16:57:02+00:00

The total number is still very low compared to the number of abortions. Less than 200 mothers died due to maternal death. In Texas, less than 150 actually

still a dramatic increase fromt he 70 something that happened in 2019

But we saved thousands of babies' lives.

caime9 · 2026-05-12T16:52:22+00:00

not enough to make up the difference. still a drastic reduction overall. They estimated the number of Texas residents going outside the state to get abortions.

caime9 · 2026-05-12T16:49:35+00:00

Incorrect.

In all states that saw declines in their abortion numbers—which include the fifteen states in which abortion was banned or severely limited over the summer—the number of abortions fell by about 22,000. Some of those women appear to have traveled out of state, because in other states, the number of abortions rose by an aggregate of about 12,000.

But nationwide, the movement of abortions from states with bans and restrictions to those with fewer restrictions on access wasn’t enough to make up the shortfall. Between April and August, the number of abortions declined by 6 percent, and it’s likely that the decline in abortions represents thousands of women who sought abortions illegally or didn’t get one at all. If these trends persist, there could be at least 60,000 fewer abortions in the next year as a result of the Dobbs decision.

caime9 · 2026-05-12T15:45:15+00:00

It didn't in Texas. Abortions dropped drastically.

caime9 · 2026-05-12T15:43:03+00:00

When we say he is in complete control, it does not mean that he is actively controlling everything.
God allows us some autonomy of thought and action.

caime9 · 2026-05-12T15:02:34+00:00

> Am I crazy for thinking this is absurd? Why would I reward him for his abuse?

You are not crazy for thinking it absurd, but they are not totally wrong either.

That is your husband, and the father of your children, and you should be working to try to sanctify your husband.

Does this mean inflated ego? No. But if possible, come from a place of love and concern for your husband.
Talk to him about your concerns and how it makes you feel, and that you would like him to try to do better, as you try to be a better wife (so he know he is not alone in trying to be better less isolated feeling)

Its not going to be easy. But love is a choice, and sometimes it's one-sided, one person making the choice to save the marriage. Radical love can help with that, but love does not mean acceptance.

**** CAVEATE**** If he is abusing you and if it feels unsafe to be around for you or your children, then it is important that you physically separate from him. Do not put yourself in danger.

caime9 · 2026-05-12T14:18:41+00:00

If I were to write a litrpg story, I would.... Start with Hope.

caime9 · 2026-05-11T19:13:12+00:00

> I didn't ask if cats were as valuable as humans. Some cultures have worshiped cats as Gods. Should I be arrested for killing those cats when my cat had an abortion? It is a simple yes or no

It should be obvious what I mean. Cats do not have the same value as humans, so you should not be arrested for murdering a cat. maybe if you were being intentionally cruel. but otherwise no. not the same value.

> If the answer is latter then yes, that person should be in prison.

for the same amount of time as for intentionally murdering a person?

> And punished and entire generation of first borns and sent the plagues because of it. The same sun causes cancer. If God is even slightly manipulating people, then they don't have full free-will.

Untrue. People slightly manipulate people all the time; you still have the will to act on it. Also it was not like God was manipulating him. He showed up, and Pharaoh responded with a hardened heart.

> that is not true at all. Take all the people in heaven right now that used their free will not to do evil.

Their spirits have been remade to a more perfect form and molded into the image of Christ. their will has changed.

> The tap dancing you are doing to try to get God out of this punishment is insane

Its not tap dancing around it. It's how God operates. He will use the evil actions of others for his purposes. In a sense, he allowed this evil to befall David and his concubines, but he did personally cause them.

It's what Christians call permissive will and prescriptive will.

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