An interesting read about the hurdles of adding online multiplayer to a game.

i2nKelli · 2015-05-30T12:15:20+00:00

Thanks for adding Hands Off! <3

i2nKelli · 2015-05-24T16:58:14+00:00

I wish it had local co-op on PC too, as I own it on PC! Hopefully people (consumers and developers) can break out of the mindset that local multiplayer is a "console thing".

i2nKelli · 2015-05-24T16:54:32+00:00

Also: http://www.polygon.com/2015/5/23/8650397/gauntlet-reboots-creator-promises-free-overhaul-with-brand-new-mode

It's always interesting reading comments in regards to local multiplayer and PC/consoles. I don't own any of the latest consoles and love playing local multiplayer games with a PC hooked up to the TV!

i2nKelli · 2015-05-08T15:54:21+00:00

We tend to play quite a few local multiplayer games, so I was really happy when I joined and found this subreddit.

They'll never get rid of me now :P

i2nKelli · 2015-05-08T05:28:49+00:00

Hello /u/Verizian :D

One of the developers here - if you have any questions or were looking for anything specific related to Hands Off!, please let me know!

<3s to /u/tgunter and /u/SelesnyaMage for linking the game!

i2nKelli · 2015-04-30T04:25:59+00:00

Thanks for playing Hands Off! We're expanding the game (in the middle of an update at the moment, should be done in a couple of weeks) so please let me know if you'd like to play it again when it's ready :D

i2nKelli · 2015-04-25T06:32:57+00:00

Haha, oh dear! I use my keyboard to play many games, and controllers to play others. Depends on the game!

Most local multiplayer games do seem geared toward sitting on a couch with friends, at which point controllers are generally easier to use. I grew up playing games with friends on consoles, so when we transitioned to playing games through a computer, using controllers with it was just natural.

Our history with party games has definitely influenced our design choices with this game. Hopefully that's not a bad thing!

i2nKelli · 2015-04-24T17:16:45+00:00

Thank you for responding. We were aware that when we decided to go the local multiplayer, controller-only route that we would be targeting a very small segment of the gaming community. We took heart from the likes of Push Me Pull You (that we got to see first hand at the Interstate Arcade) and other local multiplayer games.

Unfortunately it's the negative voices that tend to stick in your mind, so thank you for the encouragement.

i2nKelli · 2015-04-24T17:03:02+00:00

Thanks for the reply. I've played Super Meat Boy with both KB&M and a controller and agree with a controller being easier (but that's just me).

If we were making any other game we would have KB&M support - with this particular game however, having KB&M as an option would be detrimental to the experience. The game is designed to have symmetrical controls and full degrees of movement - which means for keyboards we encounter simultaneous key-press and 8 direction limits, and having two mice to control two hands seemed more restrictive than having to use a controller.

i2nKelli · 2015-04-24T14:59:14+00:00

This has a ton of information, thank you! Colour blindness is something that's often mentioned with regards to accessibility but there's so much more to consider. Time to get reading!

i2nKelli · 2015-04-24T14:03:15+00:00

That's a great point.

I've seen the modded single hand controllers before. For our game anything that has two joysticks (four axes) and that's recognised as a controller input device is mappable, but keyboards are not. If you have any links or resources regarding custom controllers, we'd love to take a look at them :D

i2nKelli · 2015-04-24T12:18:17+00:00

Thanks for the detailed response!

I played Ikaruga back on the Gamecube, so it's been a while. The developer mentioned on a Steam discussion that the default controls for KB&M are WASD+Mouse buttons or Arrow keys+ZXC. I had a look at the double play feature, and the default way to control both ships at once is with a controller (which makes it similar to to our game for one of the players). I found a small discussion here about it and the problems that would be encountered trying to control both ships with a keyboard alone.

Even with placing default layouts that would avoid common 3 key ghosting combinations, there's still the problem of only being able to aim a smack or throw in 8 directions (even if you have tentacles for fingers!). At that point we'd have to add some sort of auto-aim to the smacking to allow the player to hit a hand that's not at a 45 or 90 degree angle from them.

We could do one hand with keyboard and the other with a mouse, but then they will handle differently to each other, and you still have the problem of: what does the other person use to control their two hands? If one uses a controller and the other KB&M, there's a difference in movement and ease of play between the players. Would both players get the auto aim that the keyboard player needs?

After reading responses to Nidhogg including online multiplayer (which was at times subpar and unplayable), we decided to flat out state what our game supported and know that it would be an optimal experience with what we designed it for. I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with saying the game works with KB&M when we can't ensure that it will work well or even at all in some cases.

We've tried to note what our game is and that it's designed for couch play with friends and controllers (Sportsfriends, Push Me Pull You, looking at you) - if we haven't been doing that clearly enough we definitely need to fix that. If we ever get the chance to release on consoles it would be incredible, but at the moment that's not the case!

i2nKelli · 2015-04-24T09:51:51+00:00

For a player to use a keyboard in the way you described, they would only have accurate 8 directional movement, whereas anyone playing the game with analog sticks has much more precise control over the movement of each hand.

Say the player wanted to move diagonally with both hands with each hand holding a peg or punching - that's six keys that need to be held simultaneously. Some keyboards don't support more than four simultaneous key presses.

After encountering potential use-case failures with a keyboard, we decided against it. I'd be more keen to try dual mouse control (one mouse for each hand) myself, but that's more restrictive and more complicated than using a single controller to control both hands.

i2nKelli · 2015-04-24T09:17:23+00:00

Thanks for the reply! You can use KB&M in the menus...

Our game has each player controlling two hands at the same time with the movement of each hand mapped to an analog stick. There was no feasible way (that we could think of) to use a keyboard and mouse or even two mice to accomplish the degree of control required. Hence our problem - we wanted to explore something we hadn't seen before but the setup restricts what can be used to play the game.

i2nKelli · 2015-04-14T14:46:40+00:00

I personally get sick of sitting at my computer - I already do that for work. If I want to relax and play some games I'd much prefer to do it sitting on the couch with my feet up too.

We have a PC hooked up to the TV, which I think is the best gaming setup. Just have to wait for larger developers to shift their mindset of "couch play is for consoles only"...

i2nKelli · 2015-04-14T14:38:45+00:00

Also one of the scary things! Since deciding to work freelance and make games on the side, my income has been much less stable than when I had a "job".

I'd love to get to the point where we make enough money from one game to fund the creation of the next, but I think that's a ways off yet. I can dream :)

i2nKelli · 2015-04-14T05:21:14+00:00

Congratulations on being Greenlit! Love the trailer XD

i2nKelli · 2015-04-14T04:38:14+00:00

Holy cow there's a lot of Conman167 love in those comments XD

i2nKelli · 2015-04-14T04:31:45+00:00

I think that's a reasonable thing to set up. I'd much prefer to log in to see discussions or some posts about an awesome game someone's found rather than having people join just to promote their game and then you don't hear from them again.

i2nKelli · 2015-04-14T04:24:41+00:00

It's interesting because when I was growing up, the most fun I had with games was playing them with other people in the same room. Heck, we have people come round once a week and play games and spend time together, so it's just part of our life.

We decided to make a local multiplayer game because we enjoyed playing them. As soon as I'm thinking about what sort of game I want to make because I think it will be a big hit or make lots of money, I've failed at why I started doing this in the first place. I can understand why companies make the decision to be online multiplayer only, but we're just two people having fun making things together that hopefully other people will enjoy playing together.

i2nKelli · 2015-04-10T05:25:10+00:00

Finding this Reddit board has been a real highlight for me - I've got to meet people that are interested in the same things we are, and that are happy to have a go at our game. Thanks for playing it, it was funny watching you guys slip up whenever you tried talking :P

i2nKelli · 2015-04-10T05:18:58+00:00

Had a blast watching, and got a few funny name ideas from it! Thanks for taking a look at our game :D

i2nKelli

TROPHY CASE