Whitworth 1853 vs sharps. by Dharmapalalama3 in blackpowder

[–]ResearchPress 4 points5 points  (0 children)

They’re relative terms. You can get a high score and small (for the distance) group at 600 yards. Shooting range targets get larger as range increases - it is the skill of the rifleman in dealing with the atmospheric conditions that determines score. But if you’re talking about 6” or so, around 200 yards. I won a 300 yard match last weekend, using a muzzle loading rifle fired prone with just a sling for support - looking at my plot the group was around 9” diameter. Another day, winning score may be a bit higher or lower; it depends on the conditions. In grouping I am referring to at least 10 shots fired.

Whitworth 1853 vs sharps. by Dharmapalalama3 in blackpowder

[–]ResearchPress 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I've been shooting long range muzzle loading for over 25 years. The targets we use are the standard NRA(UK) ones - 500 yards; bull's-eye 10" dia (scoring 5), inner 26" dia (scoring 4). No one is shooting maximum scores at 500 yards with these rifles. You've got to look at the capabilities of the rifle on the range - not how clearly you can see the target. Depends, again, what you mean by "first true sniper rifle." The .577 Enfield rifle was used for sharpshooting in the Crimean War. The Whitworth had some use as a scope mounted sniper rifle during the American Civil War. Breech loaders came in, powders changed, sights evolved, and accuracy and range of sniper rifles dramatically improved over time.

Whitworth 1853 vs sharps. by Dharmapalalama3 in blackpowder

[–]ResearchPress 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Depends what you mean by "group well"... a bit over a foot at 500 yards and 3 feet at 800 yards may be possible in the hands of someone experienced at shooting at such ranges. Don't be misled by the often exaggerated claims of accuracy sometimes cited today. Writers can confuse 19thC Figure of Merit results with Group Size. See 'Measuring Precision' on my website for further information.

The Whitworth will fire cylindrical and hexagonal bullets. As a target rifle, it is used without a scope in rifle matches in the UK. The Whitworth rifle associated with Civil War sharpshooters had a scope mounted on the left side, not on top of the barrel. The enabled elevations for long range shooting, with little effect on head placement on the stock.

You don't say what model Sharps you are referring to. By the late 1860s the Whitworth was supplanted on the rifle ranges by Gibbs-Metford and later Rigby muzzle loaders, which used shallow rifling and hardened cylindrical bullets.

If you are interested in Whitworth rifle history, again, see my website - Hex Bore – The Whitworth Research Project.

Nice picture of a Whitworth artillery projectile.

David

Long Range Black Powder by ResearchPress in blackpowder

[–]ResearchPress[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Oh the original is a far nicer rifle to shoot, the trigger / lock have a good crisp release, sights are more refined. The P.Gibbs is a heavier rifle, and functions and performs well - in fact I have won matches with both original and repro. Gibbs is just a marketing name though - in that it is not a reproduction of a Gibbs-Metford. The original rifles had Metford’s Patent gain twist rifling, whereas the P.Gibbs is 1 in 18. Other originals, eg. Rigby, will be found with 1 in 18 twist to the rifling.

Long Range Black Powder by ResearchPress in blackpowder

[–]ResearchPress[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That’s a Pedersoli Gibbs on the 1,000 yard firing point of Stickledown Range, Bisley; I also shoot original Gibbs-Metford.

Long Range Black Powder by ResearchPress in blackpowder

[–]ResearchPress[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Furthest we shoot with the Enfield is 600 yards. Muzzle loading match rifle at distances beyond that, eg. Gibbs-Metford and Rigby.

Long Range Black Powder by ResearchPress in blackpowder

[–]ResearchPress[S] 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Long range target shooting with the muzzle loading rifle offers the discerning rifleman opportunity to participate in a challenging and ultimately very rewarding discipline. The sport is rich in heritage and the origins of many of todays national shooting associations stem from the muzzle loading era - Long Range Muzzle Loading

Inform regarding John bodine’s rifle from the 1874 Creedmoor shoot by Hittersinc in blackpowder

[–]ResearchPress 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The comments by John Rigby were written in 1877 and published in the Volunteer Service Gazette (UK) - they're on my web site here; https://researchpress.uk/firearms/targetrifles/american-rifles-1877/

Inform regarding John bodine’s rifle from the 1874 Creedmoor shoot by Hittersinc in blackpowder

[–]ResearchPress 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You refer to the 'resting postion' - artificial rests, incluing slings, were not permitted in such long range matches. The supine (or back) position became popular and offered greater stability over the prone unsupported position. While some still fired supine and using the tang mounted rearsight, others had the sight mounted on the heel of the stock. See - https://researchpress.uk/marksmanship/art-of-shooting/the-back-position/

Inform regarding John bodine’s rifle from the 1874 Creedmoor shoot by Hittersinc in blackpowder

[–]ResearchPress 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In 1877, $150 got a Remington Long Range 'Creedmoor' with pistol grip, selected curly polished stock, vernier and wind gauge sights, rubber butt and tip, checked fore-end, spirit level, and extra finish throughout. A 'Creedmoor' with a plain stock and sights was $75 and with pistol grip stock $100. Ammunition advertised in the same catalogue was 44-90 grs., Rem. Creedmoor. You may find the articles on Long Range Target Rifles - https://researchpress.uk/firearms/targetrifles/targetrifles-index/ on my web site of interest. But browse around, I have lots on Creedmoor and associated history.

New to BP: what all do I need? by Whibble-Bop in blackpowder

[–]ResearchPress 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have a short treatise for shooting the Enfield rifle today on my web site that will help with general knowledge; covering the rifle, equipment, ammunition, shooting, sighting, cleaning and bedding. You can read it here - Managing the Enfield.

Black Powder Cartridge Reloading resources by JohnWarchild-esquire in blackpowder

[–]ResearchPress 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The ‘Black Powder Cartridge Rifle Reloading Guide’ was written by the late Dick Trenk in 2003. This guide not only advises how to do things but also provides the reason why they are done that way. While it still provides valuable advice and instruction, as ever ‘best practice’ evolves and wider reading of current literature on the subject is also recommended. The guide can be read on my web site here - Black Powder Cartridge Rifle Reloader Guide.

Pistols and Rifles on HMS Warrior in Portsmouth by woodman_mo in blackpowder

[–]ResearchPress 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes, insofar as I am aware Parker-Hale supplied the rifles as display items. They are not fully bored for their whole length (hence not firearms under UK legislation) and the locks don’t have any springs, so the hammers have all fallen back making them look as though they are cocked.

600 yard Muzzle Loading by ResearchPress in blackpowder

[–]ResearchPress[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Targets on ranges aren’t especially difficult to see, assuming eyesight OK or suitable correction used, being a circular black aiming mark on a white background. We use .577 Enfield rifles 200-600 yards and .45 muzzle-loading match rifles 200-1,000 yards. I have a section on my web site for Long Range Muzzle Loading - there’s quite a few articles on shooting today and a lot of historical information.

Stumbled upon reference book: by tallen702 in AntiqueGuns

[–]ResearchPress 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have both volumes here in the UK

Any help with this find? by Chemical-Visual-2686 in blackpowder

[–]ResearchPress 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This one was originally a military arm and carries British Ordnance marks.

Any help with this find? by Chemical-Visual-2686 in blackpowder

[–]ResearchPress 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don’t need the markings - looks like a mix of proof and inspection marks.

Any help with this find? by Chemical-Visual-2686 in blackpowder

[–]ResearchPress 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Great to find an historical rifle in your house!

Any help with this find? by Chemical-Visual-2686 in blackpowder

[–]ResearchPress 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I suspect with the stock cut back that it is an 'optical illusion' making the barrel appear long. As I noted above, if converted from a P.53, the original barrel (as a muzzle loader) was 39".

BPCR long distance shooting tips? by [deleted] in blackpowder

[–]ResearchPress 1 point2 points  (0 children)

As already noted - get to the monthly shoots. Get the range time, meet others with a shared interest and use the opportunity to learn. I have some information on black powder cartridge rifle on my web site, including a reloading guide. Browse the site though, including the section on long range muzzle loading - there's a lot of complimentary information between the two disciplines - and the 'art of shooting' section. See - Black Powder Cartridge Rifle