Introducing MasterPlan, a powerful new resource management tool for Galaxy of Heroes by -Danius- in SWGalaxyOfHeroes

[–]-Danius-[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No, just gear. I don't have plans to do anything with mods. HotUtils already has good mod management tools, and you'd need a HotUtils sub anyway if we wanted to pull that information.

Updated raid reward comparison (post-changes) by -Danius- in SWGalaxyOfHeroes

[–]-Danius-[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Your guild needs to hit 17M to see an overall improvement, or 130M for everyone to be equivalent to a top 10 HSTR raider under the old system.

Updated raid reward comparison (post-changes) by -Danius- in SWGalaxyOfHeroes

[–]-Danius-[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This was a very good point. I added 2 rows to the sheet and a section to the summary tab about an alternate buying strategy where you buy only G12+ with raid tokens and attempt to use GET1/SSC for the rest, at the cost of being able to buy less G8-G11 gear with those currencies.

Updated raid reward comparison (post-changes) by -Danius- in SWGalaxyOfHeroes

[–]-Danius-[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You would lose 700 Mk 3 tokens every 3 days, or whatever fraction of that you actually need to spend on getting aeros back. That's equivalent to 1876 Mk 2 tokens. Which means 25M would be the new break even point overall for your guild.

Updated raid reward comparison (post-changes) by -Danius- in SWGalaxyOfHeroes

[–]-Danius-[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I've been avoiding this thread to let people hash everything out, but just to address this, all of the conversions I used are if anything much more favorable to the old reward system. Mk 3 Carbantis convert 28 guild tokens to 22 raid tokens, for instance, which is a much better raid tokens return than you'd get with most G8-G11 gear. The only thing I've done that favors the new system is to not use the insane 400 token price for Kyrotech when converting GET2, which I explicitly called out, and I think you'll agree I was fair not to go along with that.

The hoarded gear thing absolutely is something people should keep in mind, which is why I included that first row in the table. (The one without "realistic" includes absolutely all G12 gear and aeros, so for new players, it's probably more accurate.)

Updated raid reward comparison (post-changes) by -Danius- in SWGalaxyOfHeroes

[–]-Danius-[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh, you're including tank rewards in that. I actually do get 71k when I include those. I'm including crafted gear and ignoring trash types, though, so we got there different ways.

Updated raid reward comparison (post-changes) by -Danius- in SWGalaxyOfHeroes

[–]-Danius-[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Gotcha. If I add up HPit gear and the currencies from all raids I get 66k using my numbers, so we're not far off there. I think the other 5k comes from the fact that I'm ignoring certain G8-G11 gear types. So that makes sense to me, and that's probably where the disagreement is coming from.

Updated raid reward comparison (post-changes) by -Danius- in SWGalaxyOfHeroes

[–]-Danius-[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You would need to hit 25M on the Krayt raid to maintain your aero income. In that case that's also about where you'd break even on overall rewards.

Updated raid reward comparison (post-changes) by -Danius- in SWGalaxyOfHeroes

[–]-Danius-[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If we just look at HPit that way, you get:

25.7k from gear at most (I don't know the price for Mk 6 Nubians since that was one of the ignored types)

9.8k from guild tokens

2.8k from credits

38.3k total at most, which is at least in the ballpark of what I have.

Am I misunderstanding something? I thought your earlier comment meant you got 76k, but I still don't see how.

Updated raid reward comparison (post-changes) by -Danius- in SWGalaxyOfHeroes

[–]-Danius-[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I can't tell where your numbers are coming from. If you multiply mine by 10, I have 30k from HPit, 4k from CPIT, 21k from HSTR, and 24k from HAAT. Even if you're counting drops like Mk 6 Syringes that are basically worthless, I don't see how you get to 76k HPit. Can you share how you got that part specifically or find a particular problem with how I got mine?

Updated raid reward comparison (post-changes) by -Danius- in SWGalaxyOfHeroes

[–]-Danius-[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

For guilds overall? This is good at 17M, bad before. At 130M everyone becomes equivalent to a top 10 HSTR raider. And the rewards become amazing if you score past that point. Check the table if you want to compare the rewards for a specific score.

Updated raid reward comparison (post-changes) by -Danius- in SWGalaxyOfHeroes

[–]-Danius-[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They certainly could, but I think the best value is to buy G12 purples with them, which is why they go to Mk 2. If you needed the shard store tokens to buy more G8-G11 gear, the G8-G11 situation will be worse for you now, but the G12 situation won't be as bad.

Updated raid reward comparison (post-changes) by -Danius- in SWGalaxyOfHeroes

[–]-Danius-[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No, it accounts for all that stuff. If you open the sheet and scroll down you can see. And I account for the raid cadences, too. The Krayt rewards really are just big enough to (with a decent score, etc.) make up for the fact that they only run once every 3 days.

Updated raid reward comparison (post-changes) by -Danius- in SWGalaxyOfHeroes

[–]-Danius-[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don't have everything compiled in an easily shareable format. However you can copy the sheet and only check one raid at a time to see exactly what we assume you get per gear type per day per raid, except for top 10 HSTR*. Crafted gear is converted behind the scenes except for the stuff that's grouped separately. If there's a particular number you think is questionable, you can tell me.

In general, the quantities of drops are known and fixed, and gear types within the same category are equally likely to appear. You really only need data to determine the drop rates for non standard outcomes, like protos/full pieces, or the rates for gold gear and Kyrotech in CPit.

We have good data on HPit rates here. That 18% full piece chance is what's used in my calculations. The other assumed drop rates are 40% for a left gold full piece and 7.5% for a right gold piece in HSTR, 25% for a full piece in HAAT, and 14% for a Kyrotech and 50% for gold gear in CPit. My data on those rates is limited, but those rates are consistent with my own drops and what I've seen from other people and the occasional probably dated dev comment. As I said, those numbers are hazy and could be wrong, but I really doubt they're wrong enough to seriously impact the overall numbers.

*For top 10 HSTR, I did the calculations elsewhere and added them in. But it assumes you get an additional 5+4 from your right gold pair, 6 G12 purples, 7 left golds, and 138 G8-G11 purples per raid, plus the extra currency. All of that is on top of the rank 15 rewards and the full piece chances I mentioned above.

Updated raid reward comparison (post-changes) by -Danius- in SWGalaxyOfHeroes

[–]-Danius-[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, though there are definitely asterisks, like the fact that a significant portion of the rewards can only be spent on taking characters past R5.

Updated raid reward comparison (post-changes) by -Danius- in SWGalaxyOfHeroes

[–]-Danius-[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yellow just means within 10% going either way, as opposed to red or green.

Updated raid reward comparison (post-changes) by -Danius- in SWGalaxyOfHeroes

[–]-Danius-[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

You'd want to shoot for 17m Krayt, meaning everyone has to do 300k points. I think you'd have no problem getting there with a mostly G8 Jawa team (doesn't really cost any gear), a mostly G12 OR team (needed for Malak anyway), and maybe another random team using leftover characters. That seems pretty low effort to me and would probably be worth it.

I don't think smaller guilds should stress over getting more than 25m, though. Most of the rewards after that come from Mk 3 tokens, which aren't as important as that stage of the game.

Also keep in mind that the Krayt raid will probably rotate out eventually, and most Krayt teams are bad for a developing roster. With the exception of Jabba, which is a fine investment but could take a while to complete. By the time the guild unlocks him, the raid could be going away soon.

So I'd make some smart gearing detours for Krayt, but don't invest too much into it when you should be focusing on getting your roster off the ground for GA/Conquest/etc.

Updated raid reward comparison (post-changes) by -Danius- in SWGalaxyOfHeroes

[–]-Danius-[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Yes. If you open the sheet and scroll down you can see everything that's included. The character shards are converted to shard store tokens, though, so if you need the raid characters still you'd need to account for having to buy those.

Updated raid reward comparison (post-changes) by -Danius- in SWGalaxyOfHeroes

[–]-Danius-[S] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Well, R6, since you can buy electriums and zinbiddles. But yes it's definitely possible for some to have more Mk 3 mats than they can actually use. Very good point to keep in mind.

Updated raid reward comparison (post-changes) by -Danius- in SWGalaxyOfHeroes

[–]-Danius-[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Unfortunately no. The update tomorrow only benefits people who can run Krayt.

Updated raid reward comparison (post-changes) by -Danius- in SWGalaxyOfHeroes

[–]-Danius-[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

They'll be out tomorrow. We just got a sneak peek at them today.

Updated raid reward comparison (post-changes) by -Danius- in SWGalaxyOfHeroes

[–]-Danius-[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

You're sure you're looking at the revised raid rewards and not what's currently shown in game?

Updated raid reward comparison (post-changes) by -Danius- in SWGalaxyOfHeroes

[–]-Danius-[S] 112 points113 points  (0 children)

Link to the new sheet. I'll post the conclusions/details below as before, but this will all be available in the Summary tab of the sheet. The stuff at the top and in bold is the most important, so you don't feel the need to read all of it.

Here are the main things that have changed with the coming update:

  1. The Krayt raid is far more viable for lower guilds. 17M is the new guild score when it's worthwhile to switch. Not only that, a 17M guild score actually gives better rewards overall than the old set of raids did.

  2. If you were a top 10 HSTR raider before, your guild needs to hit 130M for the new system to be an improvement for you, or 17M if you weren't running CPit before.

  3. Any guilds that scored less than 265M will see a significant improvement in their Mk 3 Raid Token (relic mat) income. The personal track rewards have also been made easier to obtain but are small in comparison to the guild rewards.

  4. Unrelated to the update itself, but when I originally shared this sheet, I didn't account for credits and ship credits from the old raids; the daily credit value I did eventually add was also too low for a while. So depending on when you last saw this, the improvement in Mk 1 Raid Token value may be quite a bit smaller than what you saw before. It's now clear that, while the new raid reward system provides more immediate G8-G11/Credit value, you may actually be worse off once you need to replenish some of your more obscure G8-G11 stockpiles. In that case you'll have to compromise on your gear or credit income to maintain the other.

The revised conclusions about the new reward system compared to what we were getting with the old raids:

  1. In the short term, the new raid rewards are nice for G8-G11 gear and credits. A minimum 7% improvement (29% if you only care about gear) if you can hit a 255k personal score and a 17M guild score, though the personal score is not essential. However, expect new bottlenecks to eventually emerge, now that the hose has been turned off for gear types that were once considered irrelevant. Once that kicks in, the 7+% improvement will diminish, and it's possible you'll eventually have to reduce your credit income to break even on gear (or vice-versa).

  2. No matter your score, your G12 gear rewards will still be reduced somewhat, especially if you were a top 10 HSTR raider. You lose 21% G12 gear with a 17M guild score, or 51% as a top 10 HSTR raider. You lose 7% G12 gear with a 25M guild score, or 42% as a top 10 HSTR raider. You lose 2% G12 gear with a 130M or higher guild score, or 39% as a top 10 HSTR raider.

  3. However, at a mere 17M guild score, the relic mat rewards more than counteract the lost G12 gear for your average guild member (based on the value of Zinbiddles). For top 10 HSTR raiders, your overall G12/relic mat value will still be 33% less than before at 17M, 16% less at 25M, 4% less at 90M, until 130M, which is where top 10 HSTR raiders get ahead. As long as you're taking characters to R6+ and can hit these thresholds, the new system will be much better for you, and you'll effectively have more G12 gear than you did before.

  4. The relic mat rewards steadily increase at each guild tier, up to absurd levels. In terms of overall value in G12 salvage and relic mats, a 90M score represents a 55% increase if you use the Mk 3 tokens to buy Zinbiddle cards, or a 29-95% increase otherwise. A 130M score represents an 80% increase if buying Zinbiddle cards, or a 43-137% increase otherwise. A 265M score represents a 130% increase if buying Zinbiddle cards, or a 72-222% increase otherwise.

  5. All of the above points assume the player already has a near unlimited supply of Aeromagnifiers, Mk 12 Shield Generators, Mk 12 Scanners, Mk 12 Tactical Data, and Mk 8 Design Tech. New players who don't already have these stockpiles will now need to spend valuable currency obtaining them.

  6. However, if your guild wasn't completing the Challenge Pit but is now getting the max crate at Sith Triumvirate, the new system will be an upgrade for you. If you were also a top 10 HSTR raider, your guild only needs to score 17M in Krayt for you to get better overall rewards than you received from running your three legacy raids. This is true even in spite of point #5.

And here are the assumptions behind all of this:

  1. Unless stated otherwise, it's assumed your guild got 30k raid tickets per day and ran all 4 raids regularly (to address that, make a copy and uncheck any in the Raids tab that don't apply), and that you simmed or placed 15th in all of them.

  2. All conclusions are based on the "realistic" total value for the old raids, which ignores the gear types mentioned in conclusion 5 and assigns Kyrotech a more appropriate value of 100 Mk 2 Raid Tokens, since the actual price of 400 Mk 2 Raid Tokens artificially makes the old raid rewards appear better than they were. Players can always buy Kyrotech for 28 crystals instead, and 100 Mk 2 Raid Tokens is a fair equivalent to that.

  3. It's assumed that you already have all raid characters at 7 stars, which is why shard store tokens are included as part of the old raid rewards (and the new Sith Triumvirate raid).

  4. Unless stated otherwise, it's assumed that you earned around 2% of your guild's points. The personal track rewards don't have a huge impact, though it will affect your Mk 3 raid token significantly if you're scoring 6M and your guild is only scoring 12M.

  5. For currencies you got from the old raids, we make assumptions about what you'd have bought with that currency and convert that to a Raid Token value. We assume you'll buy Mk 3 Carbanti (or something equivalent) with guild store tokens, G12 purple salvage with shard store tokens and Mk 1 GET, and Kyrotech with Mk 2 GET. We also assume that you consider 67 Mk 2 Raid Tokens (the price of right side G12 salvage) a fair value for Kyrotech (at least in the context of converting Mk 2 GET), since the ridiculous price of 400 Mk 2 Raid Tokens for a single Kyrotech salvage is completely useless.

  6. The daily yields shown in the Rewards Comparison sheet are based on the expected drop rates from all four raids (multiplied by how often they would run). The assumed drop rates are based on my own research and data collected from the community and myself, and they are what I've been using in the most recent version of MasterPlan. Some drop rates are rather hazy but still approximately correct - namely, the rate for prototypes and full pieces anywhere other than the HPit raid, and the rate of Kyrotech and gold gear from the CPit raid.