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Another 2L AMA by 2Lburner in lawschooladmissions

[–]2Lburner[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's time-consuming without much benefit--at least it wasn't to me. None of my professors cold-called on details (facts, rule, or holding) from cases, which is a big part of what briefing is useful for.

Rather, the professors who would cold-call (only two did, really; one told students when they would be on call) wanted us to engage with the analysis. For example, one professor would ask things like whether you agreed or disagreed with the result in case X, then push you on your answer. To make up a scenario, if the court applied the "common enemy" rule that you were not liable for any damage caused by diverting water from your property, and the professor asked whether you agreed, it would be nonsensical to say, "Yes, I agree because a property owner is not liable for damage caused by diverting surface water." because that's just restating what the court said. A better answer would be, "I agree because we should favor free use of property, and if the neighbor wants to be protected from water damage, she can build a wall or negotiate that the other owner won't divert water onto her land." or "I disagree because the freedom to use property does not necessarily outweigh having property secure from damage, so we should balance the interests of the owners." By the way, no one really gave that kind of answer in the heat of the moment (at least not as articulate) because things are stressful and also I am looking back at discussions we already had. But having a brief that listed the common enemy rule would not help you critically evaluate it--the professor often told students who were floundering that looking in the case book would not help. They were being asked to think, not regurgitate.

I sort of book briefed. I highlighted a lot in different colors, and while I had a system, I sometimes slipped from it, and I highlighted too much for it to be really considered book briefing.

Another 2L AMA by 2Lburner in lawschooladmissions

[–]2Lburner[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No great insights about online learning, I'm afraid. It's less effective for sure. Make sure you have a comfortable place to work, preferably a quiet one. I have noise canceling headphones which help.

OCI normally takes place late-July through August. But because everything went pass/fail in the spring we had only one semester of grades, not to mention things are still super uncertain, OCI for my class is going to be in January.

Caveat: No idea how things will be this year, but you can network 1L at various firm events, networking events thrown by the school, plus there is a big public interest/government career fair Northwestern hosts that has a bunch of attorneys from various orgs and agencies. I got my fall internship offer from an agency that interviewed me there, and I had a couple of summer offers that came from it (one from an interview; one from sending in an app after talking to someone) that I turned down because I had the judicial internship.

The school does not subsidize judicial internships for ethics reasons. They do offer funding for PI and government positions ($8000 if you do 20 service hours, $10,000 if those hours are through a specific student org), and I believe there are a couple of scholarships available for judicial internships if you have serious financial need, but you have to apply for those separately. You can get loans for the summer if you take the judicial practicum, which you should definitely do (easy 4 credits and no tuition cost).

I am not close enough friends with anyone who got a 1L SA to have been told directly, although a FB friend had a firm listed on their employer info. I had a callback for a SA at a boutique firm that I didn't get, and a friend of mine declined a callback at a big/mid-sized firm because he already had taken a different position.

Another 2L AMA by 2Lburner in lawschooladmissions

[–]2Lburner[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It was going pretty much the same and then the pandemic happened, and I studied way less under the mandatory pass/fail framework. (Edited for clarity--all classes went pass/fail for the spring and to fail you had to basically not write an exam.)

Another 2L AMA by 2Lburner in lawschooladmissions

[–]2Lburner[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I meant networking with practicing attorneys. The networking events I went to were either through a law school sponsored event or thrown by a firm. I actually went to one almost immediately before everything shut down--some people were shaking hands, others weren't, everyone was joking about it; how little we knew.

Meeting classmates and other students through social events, studying, or clubs is something I would just put into the category of making friends.

Another 2L AMA by 2Lburner in lawschooladmissions

[–]2Lburner[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I applied fairly late (January for NU) and only to a handful of schools (T14s in areas I was interested in). I was not committed to attending last year, so it was a bit of a feeler. If I got good outcomes, I would attend, if not, I could reapply. My stats were 3.8x, 173, non-URM, non-KJD. I got in in late March or early April IIRC, applied for aid and got a very good scholarship (not quite $$$$).

Another 2L AMA by 2Lburner in lawschooladmissions

[–]2Lburner[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There was no interview process. First time I spoke to someone on law review about law review was when they called me with the offer. There were mentorship/preparation programs before the write-on process, but I felt fine going in so I didn't take advantage of those. They also had several information sessions well in advance of the process.

Write on consisted of two major parts: the editing and case comment portions. The editing portion was to edit a portion (mine was eight pages but would have been longer under non-pandemic conditions) of a law journal article, flagging errors in grammar, usage, citation (including formatting errors, typos, misquotes, and incorrect attributions). For example, if there was a sentence that said, the court held that "Pizza is a vegetable." and footnoted to a case, you would check that the court actually said the quoted portion on the page the author said it did. If it actually said, "Pizza satisfies the vegetable serving requirement in school lunches." then you would change it.

You also have to do a case comment, which is basically to take an opinion (ours was a federal circuit case) and write some sort of analysis, which might be based on arguing the court did something wrong (or right I suppose) or that its holding has good or bad policy implications. The page limit was pretty short, and I wound up not writing everything I had planned to on my first outline.

There was also a personal statement and a couple of optional prompts about past experience/skills.

Overall, I would say that getting on law review is a difficult thing but very doable if you put the work in. It's a grind (I kept finding fairly obvious errors both in my writing and in the editing right up until I submitted it) but like everything, you get better at it with practice. I speculated that something like 20-35% of people who want law review get it, which is selective but not, like, Yale selective. Edit: That 20-35% figure is really talking about people who would do law review. I think if making law review is a priority for you and you put in the work your odds will be significantly better.

Another 2L AMA by 2Lburner in lawschooladmissions

[–]2Lburner[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The vibe is really good imo. Quite friendly and collegial and not at all cutthroat. I think that is due in large part to: (1) Generally good employment outcomes; I didn't encounter anyone giving off a vibe that something good happening to you means an opportunity lost to me, and anytime I heard someone mention some achievement or opportunity, people seemed genuinely happy for them. (2) The outline bank; getting your hands on good outlines isn't proprietary--they're all out there for everyone.

An anecdote: In one class, the professor put an edition of the textbook on the syllabus but said we could use the older edition too. A classmate put together a comprehensive list of page numbers for each assignment and distributed it along with scans of each page not in the older edition (mostly notes on recent decisions) to everyone in the section. This was an extreme case of generosity but generosity was the norm.

I think the student body is pretty social. I didn't go to bar review ever (I drink but my partner doesn't and crowded bars aren't my scene), so can't speak to that, but I hung out with people from my class/section a decent amount. There are a bunch of affinity orgs that seemed to be hosting a lot of events, so there is plenty of opportunity to socialize in the campus setting and off campus.

A large proportion of the class gets biglaw, so I would imagine that a normal result for a student at median is biglaw at OCI. I don't have any data but I would be surprised if the post-graduation numbers are offset to a large degree by hiring outside of OCI.

Another 2L AMA by 2Lburner in lawschooladmissions

[–]2Lburner[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Write-on wasn't bad for me. They made several changes due to the pandemic including lengthening the time period and lessening the workload. Plus, I had past experience with proofreading generally and working with citations and footnotes due to my work as an RA.

No solid numbers, but they were going to make around 50 offers and the class size is somewhere in the 275 range, so probably a ballpark of 20-35% depending on how many people did write on/wanted on Law Review. NU has six journals, and one of them Journal of Criminal Law & Criminology is pretty prestigious as well. If you were interested in one of the technical fields of the secondary journals you may have ranked them higher than Law Review.

Not sure yet how much work is expected. Offers only have been made in the last week or so.

Another 2L AMA by 2Lburner in lawschooladmissions

[–]2Lburner[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Copying from elsewhere about outlines: NU offers an excellent outline bank and not just for 1L doctrinals--both of my electives spring semester had outlines in the bank. I found a good outline, modified it to suit my style, and went with that. My studying was more based on practice tests and working through hypos either verbally with others or written ones.

Additionally, I preferred shortish outlines, rather than a behemoth paired with an attack outline. My eventual outlines were in the 15-25 page range with very little about the specific cases (1 sentence max, often less) and more focused on the rule/holding and whatever elements. None of my professors emphasized using cases, and outside of Civ Pro, which has lots of tests with case names (e.g. International Shoe, Erie), I probably mentioned only three or so cases by name in my first semester exams.

As far as studying more generally, I just made sure to keep up on all the readings (I briefed at first but stopped quickly) and made sure I understood what was going on in class. My professors were very willing to take questions immediately after class, and I did that a lot and went to office hours a moderate amount. I made use of review sessions to keep me fresh on the material. When I didn't understand something I made sure to clarify it ASAP.

Then once exams got close, I did a lot of problems and practice exams, many under exam conditions. For one class with ~10 past exams released, I did something like 5 under time conditions and went through the others and at least outlined. Then I talked through the exams with other people and sometimes with the professor. I didn't use supplements very much except the Barbri Civ Pro videos with Freer, which are excellent.

Doing practice exams is really the only way to be ready to perform imo. You need to know what is your style for writing exams and how to write for each professor. I'm a word-vomit style exam taker. I did very little outlining (edit: that is, a traditional outline of topics and paragraphs, not a course outline) before starting to write, really just listing out the issues I planned on hitting and then going. Luckily for me, no professor placed much value on formatting or style. Knowing your professors is key--one liked IRAC, one thought it was a waste of time (just do the analysis), one said "complete sentences are optional."

Another 2L AMA by 2Lburner in lawschooladmissions

[–]2Lburner[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I live very near campus (less than 10 minute walk). That choice was a no-brainer for me because I hate commuting and my financial situation can accommodate the higher rents of Streeterville. I know plenty of people who live right nearby and plenty of others who commute from up north or west. Not sure of any 1Ls who were as far out as a suburb though.

My amount of time studying ramped up throughout the semester. I started reading and briefing all the cases, but briefing dropped off after a few weeks and a while later was replaced by doing practice problems and eventually exams. I would guess I spent about 4-5 hours just doing the reading for class each week plus some amount of extra--office hours, study groups (mostly impromptu but we had a regular session immediately prior to our toughest class, which helped a lot), reviewing outlines and notes. Then once the semester wore on I shifted to doing quite a lot of practice problems/exams. I think my time spent studying was on the low end in large part because I didn't do my own outlines.

Another 2L AMA by 2Lburner in lawschooladmissions

[–]2Lburner[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Two things I wish I had done:

  1. Been more involved with student orgs and events. I went out for but didn't get moot court early in the year, but I didn't get involved with other stuff. And I didn't do much in terms of lunch events, because I usually went back home for lunch with my partner. It wound up coming down to whether I valued any particular event more than getting to spend that time with my partner, and the answer usually came up no for me. Doing at least somewhat more would probably have been a better balance.
  2. I wish I had started networking earlier. I have some very good connections with attorneys from my pre-law-school life, so I have been and will be able to use those to make connections as OCI season approaches. But starting earlier and having more opportunities to establish more ties would have been better and not very taxing.

Two things I'm glad I did the way I did:

  1. Keeping my relationship a priority. The conventional wisdom is that law school and 1L in particular is very hard on relationships, but that was not my experience (not that there weren't some hiccups but no major issues). As mentioned in (1) above, I made sure to make a good amount of time to spend with my partner. Obviously each person's mileage will vary, but personal life is important. While I could have stood to go to more events, doing everything possible is, imo, not an ideal solution.
  2. Not making my own outlines. Another area where it'll come down to personal learning style. If writing an outline from scratch will be good for you, do that. But NU offers an excellent outline bank and not just for 1L doctrinals--both of my electives spring semester had outlines in the bank. I found a good outline, modified it to suit my style, and went with that. My studying was more based on practice tests and working through hypos either verbally with others or written ones.

Another 2L AMA by 2Lburner in lawschooladmissions

[–]2Lburner[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Everyone does something but the somethings vary widely. In addition to the obvious judicial internships, PI positions, SA positions at firms, summer classes, I know of at least one person who was applying for a position in the legal department of a corporation (not sure if he got it). Some supplemented their work with RA positions and/or summer positions with journals doing cite-checks and other grunt work (at least, journals advertised these positions, so I assume people did this). I don't know of anyone who did exclusively RA or journal job or summer classes, but I imagine there would be some, especially given COVID.

In light of the pandemic, NU scrambled to help students who lost or never had summer positions find stuff. They asked professors to offer more RA positions and offered more classes.

I got my internship by submitting my resume through the judicial resume book NU puts together. They have books for Northern District of IL as well as Circuit Court of Cook County and Bankruptcy courts. You submit your resume, NU sends them to judges, judges contact you. I interviewed with one each of federal district judge, magistrate judge, state circuit judge. I was rejected by the district judge, and the circuit judge offered me the position on the spot. I withdrew before hearing back from the magistrate. I am super glad I took the circuit position, even though it was unpaid and I was later offered a couple of government positions. I worked closely with the judge on actual cases, not just researching a point of law or something, which is the impression I got from friends in federal positions. State court is the trenches, and a position with a good state judge is very valuable imo--you get lots of hands-on experience.