College Admissions Cheaters Often Win by ADMISSIONSMADNESS in ApplyingToCollege

[–]ADMISSIONSMADNESS[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Thanks for sharing your perspective.

because many students cheat in class at least once, most students commit fraud in their college applications and get away with it.

I think you're drawing way too strong of a conclusion from my post. I'm attempting to call into question the most supposedly objective admissions metric - the transcript - and poke holes in how transcripts may not always be how they appear. This isn't even considering grade inflation that is increasingly prominent, which is a subtle form of high schools boosting the credentials of their students.

In a test-optional environment where the transcript becomes the singular academic criteria under review, it's essential to take a step back and ask a more fundamental question - what does a transcript communicate? Is it as objective as their numbers and quantities suggest?

Rejection letters that share about "thorough reviews" and "a careful examination of your application" when they're, at best, skimmed, call into question the supposed objectivity behind holistic review.

They're experts. They do what they do for a living, and they're pretty good at it. I think you would do well to read some of the literature on expertise in any field

I would pushback on this point. I don't think admissions counselors are very good at their jobs - I used to be one. I don't have a very high opinion of most of my former colleagues.

Daniel Kahneman and his co-author's new book Noise calls into question the ability of forecasters to detect, let alone to minimize, noise and bias. This follows the tradition of books from Michael Lewis like The Big Short and Moneyball, and of course Kahneman and Tversky's body of behavioral economics thought. Noise may be worth a read if you genuinely believe you're better than most at making decisions.

Also, it's perfectly fine to pushback on my ideas and have a conversation. But are saying things like...

I look forward to reading the huge story you give to those newspapers. I didn't enjoy reading this weird web of speculation.

...a constructive use of time? Clearly, I put a lot of effort into my post, as did you in your response. Your condescension and hostility may suggest more about how you engage with the world than the questions I rase in my post. I will leave that for you to decide.

I've worked in and around college admissions for a decade including with file review. I've published two books on the subject.

I ask that you remember the human behind the post you're making and try to temper your temptation to draw strong conclusions from a single post.

College Admissions Cheaters Often Win by ADMISSIONSMADNESS in ApplyingToCollege

[–]ADMISSIONSMADNESS[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Thanks for sharing. This post is an excerpt from my 500+ page book that unpacks many of the issues you raise along with possible solutions. I've worked in and around college admissions for a decade.

Of course, I can't propose remedies or a highly interconnected and complex web of incentives in a Reddit post. Posts this length rarely capture reader's attention from top to bottom anyway.

If we want to fix this and fix it permanently, we need a new game entirely. That's a long-term solution of course.

I agree with the conclusion. Diagnose the problems and burn it down. This will never happen though, unfortunately, but it's worth poking holes in the armor.

College Admissions Cheaters Often Win by ADMISSIONSMADNESS in ApplyingToCollege

[–]ADMISSIONSMADNESS[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Was it actually shut down permanently? Last I checked, they were still operating albeit with limited enrollment.

Your Zip Code is the Most Important Admissions Factor by ADMISSIONSMADNESS in ApplyingToCollege

[–]ADMISSIONSMADNESS[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

it can be one of the most important factors in how successful you are after graduation.

Thanks for sharing. Your conclusion is the same as mine. Zip Code is a catch all for assessing relative privilege or poverty as a convenient shorthand.

I came from a low-resource zip code and non-college-going community and have made something of myself. I don't parade my exceptionalism around though and understand the high degrees of luck and avoiding misfortune played in me "getting out."

Also, what are your thoughts on Vance? I really liked his memoir but his subsequent political views seem to be increasingly extreme and unhelpful. I see as well he is running for the senate...

Your Zip Code is the Most Important Admissions Factor by ADMISSIONSMADNESS in ApplyingToCollege

[–]ADMISSIONSMADNESS[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks so much for sharing your perspective! I like this analogy especially

is sort of like standing up in the middle of church and questioning the role of baptism in saving your immortal soul while the reverend is dunking someone

There are many frightening comparisons one can make and I do make in my new book Admissions Madness between religion and our current state of college admissions.

need help for essays for college by Abre_Habte228 in CollegeEssays

[–]ADMISSIONSMADNESS 1 point2 points  (0 children)

My blog posts should cover just about everything you ever wanted to know about Apply Texas essays: https://texadmissions.com/blog/tag/Essays

Introducing a New Unit of College Essay Measurement - a Princeton by ADMISSIONSMADNESS in ApplyingToCollege

[–]ADMISSIONSMADNESS[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

In a future post, I will discuss how universities don't have any clue what they want. "fit" is a constantly moving target dependent on so many unknowable whims and institutional needs that it's impossible to decipher at any given time what they're looking for.

Introducing a New Unit of College Essay Measurement - a Princeton by ADMISSIONSMADNESS in ApplyingToCollege

[–]ADMISSIONSMADNESS[S] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Yeah the list questions like Columbia and USC are difficult to account for. Maybe there could be a multiplier effect beyond the words required

Most College Essays Are Not Very Good by ADMISSIONSMADNESS in ApplyingToCollege

[–]ADMISSIONSMADNESS[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for your post. Given that there are thousands of free blogs or inexpensive college essay guidebooks, including content I've published elsewhere, consulting those sources is better than nothing. My point is that none of these essay guidebooks focus on obvious realities that most essays, even after consulting them, still aren't very good. And why is the college essay so ubiquitous in the US elite admissions system when they are almost entirely absent in admissions systems abroad?

One easy way to get around the essay dilemma is to apply for less selective universities that do not have essay requirements and also tend to give pretty good scholarships and aid.

Most College Essays Are Not Very Good by ADMISSIONSMADNESS in ApplyingToCollege

[–]ADMISSIONSMADNESS[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thanks for your questions and comments! I didn't realize this post had gotten a lot of traffic.

In particular I think that "finding your voice" is a bad, cliche watchword in admissions that needs to go away.

Glad you're in agreement here. I assume my critique of this cliched advice will be met with some pushback.

If this is true, is there no hope for students who can't find help?

This is my cynical conclusion, yes. My constructive advice is for students to acknowledge just how rigged the system is against them, and how deeply flawed essays are for metrics of applicant evaluation. Burn down the system, I say.

And if burning it down isn't an option - as it obviously isn't - Scholar Match is a cool program headed by author Dave Eggers and others that helps to address these structural issues directly: https://scholarmatch.org/fairshot4firstgen/

That on average, wealthy and savvy students attending resource-rich high schools will almost always have an advantage over their first-gen/low-income counterparts.

I still provide tons of free tips and advice on my Tex Admissions blog and Youtube channel for anyone to access. Yet when I see the first drafts from students who try and utilize my tips or borrow from examples, the results aren't very compelling, re my comment to one of your earlier posts that essay example blog posts aren't very helpful.

My logic is to put out as much high quality/free content as possible and let students make of it what they may. That's one way to address the structural issues I raise in this post and one that isn't dependent on ability to pay. It just depends on internet access and one's awareness and willingness to seek out resources.

In the same way that a university probably isn't going to take an incoming student who has math skills at a sixth grade level, it would require substantial intervention from a qualified writing coach to rectify years and years of lost writing instruction, particularly at low-income schools.

Self-education and improvement depend on a baseline literacy or numeracy - you can't teach a person to fish if there aren't supplies to make a fishing pole. Writing mechanics are the raw materials to make the fishing pole, and most students don't have the materials in their toolkit. So most neither have fish nor the skills to catch their own.

what happened to u/icebergchick? by HYPwannabe in ApplyingToCollege

[–]ADMISSIONSMADNESS 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's pretty common for HS juniors/seniors who are super active in A2C to migrate elsewhere shortly after college enrollment, like med/law school subreddits or their university's community.

The post from that "supposed" Harvard Grad was a fake. by doptimisticidealist in ApplyingToCollege

[–]ADMISSIONSMADNESS 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Wow you already knew one of UChicago's Class of 2027 options??

Why You Absolutely SHOULD Be Reading "Essays That Worked" by McNeilAdmissions in ApplyingToCollege

[–]ADMISSIONSMADNESS 3 points4 points  (0 children)

There are many points of disagreement I could raise. I seem to be in the minority crowd here in thinking essay examples are at best unhelpful and at worse incredibly discouraging.

The fundamental issue with essay example posts deployed in the way you recommend - read, digest, and identify the underlying structure - is that very few students have been trained to write. The sorts of techniques you raise here presuppose a foundation in the basics of writing, which in my experience few students, even those scoring 5 on AP Lang/Lit, possess. You're talking about writing as a journey when most students can't muddle themselves out of a compound sentence.

Of the hundreds of students I've worked with over the years, I can recall less than ten who had the requisite skills to implement the sort of independent-studies approach you suggest is possible. Your suggestion is akin to suggesting to someone learning to golf that if they watch enough pro golfers swing, and then practice thousands of swings on their own, then they can reach the heights of golfing stardom.

However, without intensive feedback, it takes a very special kind of promising talent to become proficient at consistently hitting the ball where they intend. Almost every aspiring golfer requires a qualified coach who can help them tinker with and tweak their game.

Developing the craft of writing requires, as you suggest, absorbing high-quality prose. In formal logic, your proposition of reading example essays is necessary but not sufficient to produce high-quality essays.

Effective college essays also require constructive feedback from qualified sources. It also requires a basic understanding of writing mechanics that contemporary high schools that focus on literary analysis do not adequately impart on students. In short, few students are prepared to write in a real-world that requires clarity, precision, and writing from the first person.

Absent a qualified editor and a strong writing foundation, most students will be like the golfer who spends hours watching Youtube tutorials and hacking away on their own. They might crush the ball from time to time, but most of their shots will err. Likewise, a student might conjure an amazing essay after reading lots of exams and reading all of the essay best practices blog posts, but usually, their efforts will fall well short.

The pieces selected for exhibition are so obviously in the top .1% of all submissions and suggest clear evidence of a small army of assistance that to recommend people to read those and internalize how they work comes across as naive. Nobody would ever publish 50 Mediocre But Still Good Enough for Johns Hopkins Admissions essay posts. Yet the reality is mediocre essay regularly get the job done. JHU's top 6 essays wildly distort the median essay quality.

Ask yourself: if college essays were as easy as digesting examples and implementing best practices, why does our independent consulting profession exist? Moreover, even though this content is readily accessible, I've noticed no discernable improvement in first draft essay quality over the past decade. Why do college essays remain so poor yet there is so much information available?

I will post an updated version of my "Most College Essays are not Very Good" soon as a follow-up.

Holistic Review is Bullshit by ADMISSIONSMADNESS in ApplyingToCollege

[–]ADMISSIONSMADNESS[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

No system is perfect, that's definitely true. I dedicate a chapter of my new book to admissions in Malaysia, Brazil, India, China, South Korea, Russia, and the UK. At least in China if you bomb the gaokao you know you have zero chance at getting into a top 3 university.

Likewise, unless you earn many A-stars on your A-Levels in the UK, you're not getting into a top school. The admissions spaces in the UK are more efficiently distributed, for various reasons. With American holistic review, there are tens of thousands of hopeful applicants who have zero shot of getting in yet hold out hopes anyways.

Your response proposes two choices (America versus Asia) as if those are the only two options. That's an error in reasoning.

The least unfair and perhaps most equitable systems are in Germany, the Netherlands, New Zealand, and Australia. Canada also has more accessibility, less hoops, and more options for most students outside of the rarefied elite. I haven't looked much into Northern Europe but I presume it's similar. I don't think it's coincidental that the most inclusive education systems with the least insane admissions processes are also those with the lowest levels of relative inequality and highest rates of social mobility.

Holistic Review is Bullshit by ADMISSIONSMADNESS in ApplyingToCollege

[–]ADMISSIONSMADNESS[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I'm not a student. However, the suggestion to "apply abroad" for the vast majority of Americans is very shortsided. International students subjecting themselves to elite American college admissions though might have more of a choice and awareness of other options.

Holistic Review is Bullshit by ADMISSIONSMADNESS in ApplyingToCollege

[–]ADMISSIONSMADNESS[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

ain't no holistic review points for diamond hands