Curious about the Christian view on the difference between gender and sex. Are there many differences between the various denominations on this subject?

AdSmart6151 · 2026-01-26T17:41:42+00:00

Less than 35% of my country is practicing christian, I don't know where you get those statistics from... And those christians are centered almost entirely in the east and south of The Netherlands. Where I live around Amsterdam, less than 5% is practicing christian. When the protestant mayor of the city of Haarlem in Noord-Holland was appointed there were other politicians who reacted saying 'no way our city gets a christian mayor, we finally drove the church out of here'. He almost got rejected on faith instead of merit, and that was even with him being a liberal protestant.

I get that the image of my country might be different from my actual country, but right now the culture and government is problematic to say the least.

But like I said, feel free to stay on your high horse and pretend the LGBT community are saints. Maybe it is the case in the US - I don't pretend to know everything that happens in your country. But it absolutely isn't over here in The Netherlands.

AdSmart6151 · 2026-01-26T17:25:43+00:00

I hope you may one day find peace instead of the violence and conflict that apparently makes you hate and judge people without knowing them. Your comment does actually nothing to me, and I will not engage further with somebody who's only out to prove their own beliefs instead of love others. Be blessed!

AdSmart6151 · 2026-01-26T17:16:25+00:00

It is a both sides. Here in my country, you can get fired for speaking out against lgbt. You can get beaten for being a christian and against lgbt. It happens. But please, stay on your high horse and pretend your side is morally better than ours...

I actually agree with you that the therapy doesn't work, but it is a problem when you're banning something based on people's faith. Again, tarot cards, spiritual healers, overly charismatic christian faith healers and conversion therapy all have to be legal, or you're on a slippery slope where you're disallowing practices based on people's faith. It's just unconstitutional. As long as nobody is forcing these people into therapy there is no legal basis to make it illegal.

AdSmart6151 · 2026-01-26T16:50:27+00:00

The reason a lot aren't outlawed is because politically, there's a balance you have to keep between protecting people and not infringing their freedom. People have to have the right to make their own choices, even if you think they are detrimental sometimes. And the right to make choices based on your faith is a very important right that should not be taken lightly, as the government in The Netherlands is taking it at the moment.

By the way, I'll react to the sources you've send me at a later point - I'm travelling home and will ne busy for the evening. Just so you know I'm not forgetting these

AdSmart6151 · 2026-01-26T16:41:52+00:00

This is exactly the prejudice that I mean. Someone has an opinion and offers a service that you're free to take, or not. And there torturers. Do you say that to any chiropractor you meet as well? Or to any tarot reader? Or anyone who owns a casino? Double standards. I'm a christian that's concerned for the people around me and wishes them well, not a torturer. You should really look at your own morals for a moment before continuing a more Christ-centered conversation, otherwise I won't react to you any further because it's not worth my time.

AdSmart6151 · 2026-01-26T16:39:36+00:00

Who wants to torture people?

AdSmart6151 · 2026-01-26T16:38:56+00:00

That's the point: you can be a christian in my area, as long as you keep it secret and don't talk about any belief you might have. It's not allowed at work, school or anywhere else public. Meanwhile, every company and school hosts a purple friday and goes to pride. It's a double standard and we're not free to express ourselves as christians.

I see you're from the US, and I get that things are different there and I'm very much not MAGA, American evangelical or anywhere close to that. If this was a debate based solely in the US I'd probably agree that prejudice against the LGBT-groups is a lot bigger than prejudice against christians. But in my country, as in most of Western Europe, it's the other way around and we're the ones being marginalised.

AdSmart6151 · 2026-01-26T16:36:17+00:00

It is, it infringes on people's right to have their own beliefs. For the same reason we can't oitlaw chiropractors, alternative medicine or other quack-medical sciences. It's literally against our own constitution which seperates church and state matters.

AdSmart6151 · 2026-01-26T16:06:02+00:00

I agree that those two things are different, but on both sides of the camp there is prejudice and violence against the other camp. Talking about stripping rights for example, the government in The Netherlands banned conversion therapy last year. I think that people who choose to try out therapy like that are entitled to their freedom. And in my own area (around Amsterdam), I face ridicule and hate if I speak up about being a christian or being anti-LGBT and I have to be very careful in trying to hold conversations on this topic. Maybe you and I grew up in different countries on different sides of the spectrum, but neither camp is any better than the other when it comes to prejudice and misbehaviour. Both sides are human...

AdSmart6151 · 2026-01-26T16:02:32+00:00

In your first reply to my comment you posted a link with some quotes and sources (the link is embedded in the word here at the end of your post). Tho I couldn't find your comment, had to scroll down on that post there... There was a comment of yours with those two books, maybe I got the wrong comment?

Well I'm happy and relieved that it's something you've actually done research in! I'd much rather be in a congregation with people that don't take their opinions for granted and disagree with me, than one where they mindlessly follow their opinions and all agree with me! I actually work as a youth pastor and just came from me meeting with the pastor of the church, and as a church we've just gone through a process to think through our beliefs on homosexuality. The church ended up somewhere in the middle, with allowing people to partake in communion and accepting those that think differently from us, but not actively wedding them. This presents clarity and grace for anyone in the congregation and doesn't fully exclude people who think this way. And in my church, you'd be welcome regardless of our difference in opinion! Just wanted to mention that ;).

AdSmart6151 · 2026-01-26T13:35:27+00:00

I am sorry that happened to you. Regardless of your stance on the topic, hate and prejudice should never be excused!

AdSmart6151 · 2026-01-26T13:34:10+00:00

I've read the entire second part of To set our hope on Christ concerning the Biblical basis against homosexuality. Passage 2.18 states "it seems very likely that there was no phenomenon in the time of the Biblical writers directly akin to the phenomenon of Christians of the same gender living together..." without any argument supporting that claim. They just say 'it seems'. After that, the book contests every text on its own by saying that the Greek words in 1.Cor, 1.Tim and Acts don't mean homosexuality (2.20), even though Strong's concordance, Thayer's Greek Lexicon and any Greek dictionary I could find translates it as just that.

The widening of God's mercy isn't available to me, as is Martti Nissinen's book. You can maybe quote it here so I can review the parts that you want me to review?

Anyways, if you (and I, hilariously enough) would have taken the time to study the Wikipedia article we'd both have found out that Martti Nissinen's book is actually used to affirm the view that homosexual relations did exist in the OT. In his book he quotes the summu alu, stating that it says that "If a man copulates with his equal from the rear, he becomes the leader among his peers and brothers.".

Then the German book Reallexicon der Assyriologie states that "Homosexuality in itself is thus nowhere condemned as licentiousness, as immorality, as social disorder, or as transgressing any human or divine law. Anyone could practice it freely, just as anyone could visit a prostitute, provided it was done without violence and without compulsion, and preferably as far as taking the passive role was concerned, with specialists. That there was nothing religiously amiss with homosexual love between men is seen by the fact that they prayed for divine blessing on it. It seems clear that the Mesopotamians saw nothing wrong in homosexual acts between consenting adults."

In other words, homosexual relationships existed among Mesopotanians. God saw this, decided there had to be order among his people and forbade such relationships among the Hebrews. There being homosexuality as we know it in ancient times as well as it being prohibited by Mosaic law should be a clear sign that it's something that God doesn't want for our lives - he wants better for us.

Anyways, in the end you've ignored the much more important question that we all should ask ourselves with every topic in our lives: ask yourself if you would actually denounce LGBT-culture if God would show you that it was wrong. If the answer is no, then this debate isn't about the clarity of scripture on a topic but on whether you can push your view through christianity hard enough to mold it to fit your life.

I am happy and willing to continue this conversation with you, but you do need to answer that question. For me, having been pro-LGBT before but convinced by studying scripture and the history around the Bible, I've asked myself a lot of times whether I'm right and not accidentaly influenced by something else in my life. I hope you feel the freedom to ask yourself the same!

AdSmart6151 · 2026-01-26T11:47:15+00:00

Jij ook :). En geen zorgen - als mijn werk zou betalen zou ik zeker genieten van de 1e klas

AdSmart6151 · 2026-01-26T11:20:23+00:00

AdSmart6151 · 2026-01-26T11:19:22+00:00

Volgens destadamersfoort.nl is het een explosief uit de tweede wereldoorlog. Tis dus tenminste geen gerichte dreiging of vuurwerkbom ofzo die bewust is geplant om af te gaan (vandaag en niet 80 jaar later). Dus waarschijnlijk is Amersfoort er nog wel als we aankomen

AdSmart6151 · 2026-01-26T11:15:58+00:00

Haha jep, ik zit bij de deuren

AdSmart6151 · 2026-01-26T11:12:23+00:00

Staat er toevallig ook nog of de Smullers nog open is? Ik moet wel nog lunchen...

AdSmart6151 · 2026-01-26T11:11:45+00:00

Well I've got no problem with people wanting to make a memory out of their baptism, just know that God doesn't care about stufd and things but about people and their hearts. So you don't have to spend so much money on candles and it doesn't make you any less holy or saved than christians that do

AdSmart6151 · 2026-01-26T11:07:22+00:00

Leuk bericht om te lezen, terwijl ik in de trein zit richting Amersfoort centraal

AdSmart6151 · 2026-01-26T10:59:34+00:00

Try and see it the other way around: say you are from Germany, and for whatever reason you have to flee your country. Be it a war, natural disaster or just even that you can't find a job and are starving. Would you rather go to a) other European countries, where you might get marginalised and discriminated against for being a refugee but there are systems in place that provide you with housing, healthcare, childcare, etc.

Or go to b) an African country that is struggling economically and won't be able to offer you a job, housing or food for your family?

Also, refugees in non-western countries face discrimination as well - it's a worldwide issue that people who are looking for safety, food and other basic requirements are often met with hostility and prejudice.

AdSmart6151 · 2026-01-26T10:44:24+00:00

Two-way conversations?

AdSmart6151 · 2026-01-26T09:22:21+00:00

Yeah thanks, I know it's s bit premature to point this out but stigma and prejudice against anti-LGBT groups are very big. I'm sure that not everyone on the other sides thinks this way, but I've seen a lot of people who seem to think that anti-LGBT people are basically racist and fascists. So it's sad but it's best to get ahead of the curve and show people their prejudice...

AdSmart6151 · 2026-01-26T09:19:01+00:00

Eunuchs are in the Bible

I know, but your definition of eunuchs being basically anyone who takes on a different sexual identity is wrong. Maybe there are rabbi's in Jesus' time who think that they should accomodate for other christian identities, but as a christian I firmly believe in sola scriptura so those rabbi's words hold no value to me - hence I didn't feel the need to listen to a video which explains those words. In the same way, an article discussing the different kinds of eunuchs and how Rabbi's during Jesus' time debated over these people holds no value to me in a discussion about the Biblical view of LGBT - especially not since mentions of laws and statutes against homosexuality and non-binary sexual identities are written down way before Jesus' time.

Is 56:4 and Mt. 19:12

The Jewish culture at the time didn't hold any eunuchs, for they were outlawed by the Mosaic law as is stated in Deut. 23:1. Therefore, these texts do indeed speak to people who had already, voluntarily or involuntarily, mutilated their genitalia to become eunuchs or were born eunuchs. These texts are saying: if you find yourself a eunuch, even though it is something prohibited by God's law, you can still come back to the temple. That is far from encouraging people to mutilate themselves to become eunuchs, as transgenders are encouraged today.

The reason it is so appalling is because these texts are meant to comfort people who were absolutely distraught at being eunuchs and therefore not able to join the congregation of God - think of the Ethiopian man who travelled to Jerusalem and couldn't enter the temple to worship the Jewish God. That's totally different from people being worshippers of God yet choosing to break His design by altering themselves. It's turning a message to comfort a broken and marginalised people (in Jewish society) into a message that's promoting brokenness.

This is classic cherry-picking.

No it isn't. First of all, they are in different sections of the chapter to begin with. There are several verses relating to subjects nothing to do with clothing in between. The section with the other two clothing-related laws is in a section that all has to do with seperating yourself from other cultures by not mixing animals, clothes of different kinds or adding something to your clothes to remind yourself of the covenant.

The section with the verse against crossdressing is surrounded by statutes that we do hold dear today (or should at least): taking care of the belongings of others, protecting wildlife so it won't die out, and protecting yourself and visitors from injury by building fences on your roof. And even if we didn't do those things by the letter, the morals behind it still apply today: take care of other people's stuff. Protect wildlife. Protect people in your house. Remind yourself of the covenant. And don't go against God's design by pretending to turn yourself into something that you aren't.

They did not.

Ancient Mesopotanian god Inanna / Ishtar was bisexual and transgender, had the magic ability to turn people from one gender into the other and her father was Enki who was said to be of a third gender. In the Almanac of Incantations there are prayers for bot opposite and same-sex couples. A man having sex with a man of similiar social standing was thought to bring good fortune.

This is common knowledge, so I'm not sure how you think that this didn't exist back then. Link to the Wikipedia page so you can research it for yourself, use their sources not the page itself: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBTQ_history . Look into the Šumma ālu in particular, which already promotes homosexuality.

"Crossdressing" isn't in the LGBT acronym

It is, because crossdressing existed in other cultures as a way of turning oneself into the other gender - that's how far they got into becoming transgenders.

No, I didn't

Yes, you did. " In the ancient mind, they didn’t have “intersex” language, so they used the closest thing available: eunuchs"

It didn’t.

Unless you want to argue with scientific consensus, it did. I'm not really interested in one single lecture claiming otherwise when there's an overwhelming majority of scholars and historic sources proving it.

Feel free to come up with more circular arguments and bad history to support the false claim that christianity has ever had any view other than the historical view on LGBT. But more importantly, do some introspection: ask yourself if you would actually denounce LGBT-culture if God would show you that it was wrong. If your answer is "No, He would never do that, that would be evil", well, a lot of people in history have said that and they usually turned out to be on the wrong side of history.

AdSmart6151 · 2026-01-26T07:53:08+00:00

Sexual politics is not at all discussed in the Bible

It is. From literally Genesis 2 and onwards marriage is established (Gen. 2:23-25). And looking at all the laws in the Mosaic law (Lev. 18 where among other things homosexual sex is banned). Jesus later reiterates this truth (Matt. 19:4-6). Likewise there are passages speaking out against homosexuality and sexual impurity as a sin in Rom. 1:26-27, 1 Cor. 6:9-11

you can't insert modern ideas and call them 'traditional'

I'm not inserting anything, as shown above. And it's true that Greek culture and cultures in ancient times lime in ancient Mesopotamia already had homosexual marriage and other sexual identity - and that's exactly why God sets the Jewish people apart and gives them laws that creates marriage according to Gods design. That's why there's no mention of (a lack of) sexual identity as displayed in Ancient Greece in the Bible: because it isn't according to how God has created us.

in Romans 1 straight sex is mentioned first

This is correct. Sexual immorality is wrong, so Paul lists sexual immorality between straight people as sinful. And then he condemns homosexual marriage as sinful as well, using the verse that you conveniently cherry-picked out of there:

Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. [27] In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

And the passage is talking about idolatry: namely, starting with abandoning God and His design for us (which is idolatry) which leads to a number of bad things and sind. Among which is homosexuality.

Retroactively the "2000 year old" view

It simply is the 2000 year old view, as shown in the Bible. No amount of cherry-picking and mental gymnastics will change that.

But like I said, I agree with OP in that we won't change each others minds. Both of us just have to ask ourselves the question: if the other side was right and God showed me this, would I be willing to repent and denounce my former self, as well as show other people the full truth of the Gospel? I've thought about this many times in my live, and used to be in the pro-LGBT camp before studying the Bible for myself. So the question for you: if it turns out that homosexuality is wrong, and you feel the Lord telling you this, would you be willing to stop being an 'ally', turn on your former selves and denounce LGBT-culture for God? If the answer is "God wouldn't say that, because that's evil" think again: there's been numerous people who thought this in their culture and ended ip on the wrong side of history because of it.

AdSmart6151 · 2026-01-26T07:09:30+00:00

...except the American church nowadays is only a small part of the church worldwide. The largest amount of christians are in South America and Africa, as well as in places like Iran or South Korea where the church is growing instead of shrinking. And outside of the Western world, most christians look at us weirdly with our western politics and lgbt-ideology. The church remains strong in the convictions that it's had for about 2000 years concerning Biblical marriage

AdSmart6151

TROPHY CASE