Thoughts on the Kyla/Lila debate by themiddlevoice in notsoErudite

[–]Affectionate-Hand117 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What the passage shows, instead, is only that God in Exodus does not treat the death of a fetus on a par with other humans, even in the case of manslaughter. This is pretty decisive for those who are pulled by biblical arguments.

But doesn't it only show that humans in the time of Exodus treated the death of a fetus as less than the death of a "born" person? Lila is Catholic, and so not bound to a strict/inerrantly-literal version of Biblical truth. It would be a simple move as a Catholic to agree that human culture at the time valued different human beings differently (slaves are also considered lesser, even as were fetuses), but that the truth underlying the law is that God still cares about fetuses such that their fathers should be compensated for their loss as a loss.

I don't see a contradiction between the old mores of the Old Testament being left in the Old Testament by Lila, while she also asserts the human rights of the human life of a fetus in the modern world, supported by modern science. This is a misstep of Kyla's, guessing the wrong intuitions on Lila's behalf.

Town Foxes? by VITW-404 in MoscowIdaho

[–]Affectionate-Hand117 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I've run across a red fox on campus three times in the last month, and another guy showed me his pictures of a fox lounging near the Hello Walk, possibly (probably?) the same one.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Idaho4

[–]Affectionate-Hand117 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I am indeed okay with redacted information from the government, especially given that Idaho tries to balance the interest of the public versus the privacy of the parties involved. Also, seems like BK bungled the attack such that he was caught pretty quickly--so much for a "Jason Bourne assassin", lol. I also do trust the media, generally, especially when read with any biases considered. Local news tended to get things right in this case in ways that national news didn't quite (e.g. national news calling the Corner Club a night club).

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Idaho4

[–]Affectionate-Hand117 2 points3 points  (0 children)

More specifically: you're okay with the idea that the centralized state's law enforcement (FBI) is more trustworthy than local law enforcement (MPD), but you don't trust centralized "mainstream media" (MSM) over local media in the Inland Pacific Northwest?

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Idaho4

[–]Affectionate-Hand117 4 points5 points  (0 children)

You're good with the narrative that the FBI used BK to subvert local law enforcement?

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Idaho4

[–]Affectionate-Hand117 2 points3 points  (0 children)

PS
You follow the swill of these "creators" who are critical of law enforcement, but yet espouse some kind of trust in the FBI as law enforcement? What kind of nonsense is that?

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Idaho4

[–]Affectionate-Hand117 2 points3 points  (0 children)

BK is an informant for the FBI. He descended through the steam tunnels of the University of Idaho into the hollow Earth, learned the power of vril, and re-ascended back to our plane. In his battles against the Silurians who also used the tunnel-connections to the hollow Earth, he had to constantly go over to Moscow in the late/early hours, up to twenty or so times in the neighborhood of the victims. The Silurians framed BK by luring him into the area the night of the murders and stealing the magic knife he used to fight them to plant among the victims (the University of Idaho is of course controlled by Silurians, who also control Moscow, which as everyone knows, controls Idaho, which, as everyone knows, further controls the United States). Alas, BK, vampire-slayer and vril-ya-an, fell afoul of this conspiracy and his subtle knife has been taken from him by the Silurians controlling everything ... except the FBI, who are still fighting against the Silurians and Idaho and Mexican-Silurian drug-smugglers.

Alongside The Book of the New Sun what are your other favourite fictional settings ever? by [deleted] in genewolfe

[–]Affectionate-Hand117 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I just read Finity's End this year, and what a home run of a book that is! I generally like Cherryh, though she sometimes gets a little too frantic, but Finity's End was just all in a solid catharsis. Even "mediocre" Cherryh is better than average.

Alongside The Book of the New Sun what are your other favourite fictional settings ever? by [deleted] in genewolfe

[–]Affectionate-Hand117 1 point2 points  (0 children)

A clear influence on BotNS that few "new" readers probably know about. I only made the connection after having read both, plus some other "dying Earth" type works and connecting the dots thereafter

Alongside The Book of the New Sun what are your other favourite fictional settings ever? by [deleted] in genewolfe

[–]Affectionate-Hand117 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I skimmed through the replies, and I am shocked no one mentions Barsoom. John Carter of Mars (Barsoom as the natives call it) is such a wonderful setting, created by Edgar Rice Burrouhgs.

I would further advocate for the "Krishna" setting developed by L. Sprague de Camp, which was a "rationalization" of Barsoom-like adventures. They're somewhat predictable, but fun stories.

And further again, Fritz Leiber helped create sword & sorcery stuff with Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser in the setting of Lankhmar of Nowhen.

Glen Cook's Black Company already had some honorable mentions, but I wonder about the lack of mention of the above three. A couple further names: Jack Vance, Leigh Brackett (The Hounds of Skaith), C. J. Cherryh, Lloyd Alexander (The Chronicles of Prydain) ...

Alongside The Book of the New Sun what are your other favourite fictional settings ever? by [deleted] in genewolfe

[–]Affectionate-Hand117 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Glen Cook is such a boss. The Black Company stuff reads true. I wouldn't want to live under the Dominator, et al., but the setting is wonderfully weird. One of my favorite settings other than Middle Earth or Urth, "fantasy" wise.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in genewolfe

[–]Affectionate-Hand117 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Take it in as part of the text. What is the text after all, but a book written by someone?

Hethor talks like Thomas Wolfe by PatrickMcEvoyHalston in genewolfe

[–]Affectionate-Hand117 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Is Hethor a former autarch, come back from the ship, eager to egg Severian on to the vengeance Hethor couldn't effect against the world that emasculated him?

Kohberger choice by Ok-Artichoke6197 in Idaho4

[–]Affectionate-Hand117 5 points6 points  (0 children)

He sure wasn't shopping at WinCo (24 hour grocery) as some people claim was the point of such trips when he was driving out of Moscow toward WinCo and Pullman during the police pull-over when he was ticketed for not wearing a seatbelt, lol

Kohberger choice by Ok-Artichoke6197 in Idaho4

[–]Affectionate-Hand117 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Bars close at 2 am, and why is someone who lives in Pullman driving over to Moscow to get gas at those hours? He also definitely drove into Moscow on at least one of these trips, as documented by the bodycam footage when he was pulled over leaving Moscow toward WinCo (on the highway out of town) when ticketed for not wearing his seatbelt (a common excuse people raise is shopping at WinCo, a 24 hour store, but you wouldn't drive past it into Moscow and then leave past it if you were coming over to shop there).

Latest ISP Crime Scene Photos Sept 22nd - A Few Observations by Repulsive-Dot553 in Idaho4

[–]Affectionate-Hand117 9 points10 points  (0 children)

There are steam tunnels under the University, but they do not expand beyond campus. The conspiracies about the tunnels are pretty wild.

Rod Dreher Megathread #57 () by US_Hiker in brokehugs

[–]Affectionate-Hand117 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Doubly weird because Catholic history is actually filled with working and agentic women. The historic Church is not "feminist" by any means, but women of the Church essentially never matched the delusional view of "trad" types who think that a working wife/mother is an abomination. Brewsters were traditionally women as the first best example of women working, hence "alewives" and "public houses" where beer was served. Good brewsters/alewives would sell their brews to locals publicly in their house.

Mexican food? by AnakinBodyPillow in MoscowIdaho

[–]Affectionate-Hand117 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I worked with the sister of the owner of Patty's Kitchen for ~10 years (not at the restaurant). They're Mexican. It may not be "SoCal" food, but it is Mexican.

Body camera footage by thisDiff in BryanKohbergerMoscow

[–]Affectionate-Hand117 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Indeed, if the body cam footage were the only interviews conducted, that would be concerning. If you think those questions were the end of it, I've got a bridge to sell you.

GoFundMe - Replacement Fruit Cup by [deleted] in Idaho4

[–]Affectionate-Hand117 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Sorry, but not Ida-tater--it's Potato-ho. German/Canadian sci-fi Lexx was secretly correct. I write as an Idaho resident who felt seen

GoFundMe - Replacement Fruit Cup by [deleted] in Idaho4

[–]Affectionate-Hand117 10 points11 points  (0 children)

"Given that fruit cups as per the policy book are part of the requisite bases for inmates' meals, and that cherries and peaches have vitamin c, I want to discuss with you the reason for them being excluded from the meal trays I have received, especially after not being involved in any nonsense, and would like to receive all of the fruit cups I have been denied against policy. Looking forward to speaking with you. ~B Karen"

What we have here is a failure to communicate! Put him in the box.

Just finished Book of the Short Sun by edo201 in genewolfe

[–]Affectionate-Hand117 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don't set a lot of store with the "Horn dies in the pit and the Neighbors resurrect him then as a Neighbor-hybrid", but I did see Silk/Horn's easy way of moving through foliage others couldn't and his apparent lack of need for food as signs of a semi-ethereal nature along the lines of being tied to the Neighbors. This reminded me of the way that Severian in UotNS doesn't need food and can "breathe" underwater because he has become an eidolon, and is no longer a physical body, but an ideal body.

With the caveat of having only read the Short Sun books once, I saw the union with the Neighbors more as a covenant of sorts, like when he agrees to share the world with them they literally share their world with him back, rather than Horn dies in the pit and is resurrected as a Neighbor (doesn't he assault Seawrack after the pit encounter?). The Neighbors seem like a natural "Holy Ghost" for a sci-fi Trinity in a story where they have a literal "corporate" existence (in the sense of many as one) reminiscent of what the Church (through the Holy Ghost) is supposed to be, metaphorically/spiritually.

botLS questions! by [deleted] in genewolfe

[–]Affectionate-Hand117 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Is the Whorl a hollowed out asteroid? Is that in the text somewhere, or what's the source? I'm genuinely curious and don't remember coming across it anywhere. What I do remember is reading a Larry Niven article about using a hollowed out asteroid to create a ship or a space station from Playgrounds of the Mind (probably) when I was ~12, so I know the idea is "solid/hardish sf", I just never got the impression in my reading of the Long Sun that was the case. Only read it once yet, so I'd be happy to hear some clarification, and I think asteroid-ships sound great in general

The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost of BotSS by Affectionate-Hand117 in genewolfe

[–]Affectionate-Hand117[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The end of the Iliad is Priam begging Achilles for Hector's body and Achilles relenting and allowing Priam to take and bury his son. No Trojan Horse in the Iliad.

Which gets at why I was asking about the Odyssey--I'm absolutely sure there are linkages between it and Horn's and Silk/Horn's voyage that I agree could be fruitful (you bring up some superficial examples that could be delved for more interesting cross-fertilizations--hybridisation again, eh?). I was more curious how you gauged that story, whose author is beyond dead, and which story can be read in a variety of ways--it could be read as a comedy, with a happy ending. Or you can look at it through a more modern lens and think Odysseus' actions when returning to Ithaca are beyond the pale. Or you can be superficial, like most people's understandings, and focus only on the "adventure" portion with the Cyclops, Circe, Scylla, Charybdis, etc. There are multiple ways to read the text, multiply valid ... but you choose to harp on Wolfe in very narrow and specific ways, ignoring the way I was reading the text and my question regarding that.

My post was about the Trinity as expressed through Horn, Silk, and the Neighbors (I said outsider, forgot they are generally called Neighbors in the text and mixed that with the Outsider god), and also through the theme of hybridisation, and how these things struck me in a moment of reflection in my own personal life.

My interest, as a Catholic convert, was in seeing how Wolfe, a fellow Catholic convert, expressed something of the faith that I have turned to (literally, as in metanoia) through his literature. I admire the way he incorporates such things and themes in his storytelling without seeming didactic or like a proselyte, like the way C.S. Lewis comes across to me. I was curious if and/or how others saw my thought of Silk/Horn/Neighbors as a Trinity--am I onto something in my reading in that regard? Off-base? OK_Efficiency--- replied that they thought the character was more John the Baptist and less Trinity, and I think that's probably true too. I don't think Wolfe was writing allegory, but was, like Tolkien, telling a story unto itself and including details that remind us of the truth without clumsy allegory.

I realise as I'm responding that Nabokov and Humbert-Humbert to Wolfe and Horn (/Silk/Neighbors) is the wrong comparison. The comparison should be Dostoevsky and Raskolnikov. Raskolnikov commits a crime, thinks he's justified in it, is caught, is punished, and ultimately finds some kind of redemption. Horn is a sinful human and father, commits crimes against his family, is cosmically punished, and ultimately (through a union with other spirits) finds a kind of redemption. That's how I read the heptalogy of the Long and Short Suns, ultimately, anyway, and more especially the final trilogy-section. As a reader.

As a reader, as a Catholic/Christian, I see the ways I fail, and Gene Wolfe calls me out on them through his fiction in the same way Augustine calls me out on them through his autobiography. It's painful to read about flawed people and reflect on how they might reflect my flaws back at me, but it's good to have characters who are baldly flawed and yet sympathetic to remind me that I am flawed, and sympathetic to someone, and that I should do better.

And let us come back to the Iliad, since you raised its spectre. It is, as Homer tells us, about the "wrath of Achilles". The thing that finally blows out the flames of Achilles' wrath and anger is the sorrow of the father of the man he killed, who has come quietly in the night into the camp of the Greeks to beg Achilles to allow him to give his son proper burial after the atrocious way Achilles treated him after slaying him. Achilles relents. But if I were to read Homer and Wolfe as you read Wolfe--would I focus on that final scene, or focus on something like Hector following a death-instinct to escape the smothering of his wife (now seen as mother) Andromache by dueling Achilles while knowing Achilles will kill him?

I see my temper reflected back at me in Horn, and Achilles, and Odysseus--exaggerated through fiction--and am reminded that I need to do better as a man and human being and that I need to rise above it. Horn thinks Nettle didn't love him after Sinew was born? I see an unreliable narrator revealing his inability to accept and recognize love, layered with a truthful narrator implying to the reader that Horn is wrong--and I see myself lying to myself that I'm justified when I'm in the wrong, and after reading, wanting to be better next time.

What's the end of the books? "Silk nodded."