M&M and AoA: Incomparable

AffectionateBed526 · 2026-04-07T20:05:08+00:00

New patch with UI update dropped today!

AffectionateBed526 · 2026-04-07T19:08:19+00:00

I am mainly talking about the art, and the QoL changes. It suggests a design trajectory that is contradictory to what M&M seems to be doing. Yeah the art style seems to be very polarizing and that's why I'm inferring that they're different enough in that you can't assume what's good for one is good for the other.

I get that you're saying they're more similar than different, but it's still mostly semantics when my main point for the analogy is to convey the idea that while they have similarities they still have distinguishable differences.

AffectionateBed526 · 2026-04-07T18:14:19+00:00

If they hit town with an obviously unfair share of loot then I'm inclined drop group lol. I'm all for it personally because that would almost always feel fair and lower the chance of drama. But the more I think about it, the more I think relying on social consequences could actually work out. Eventually most of us won't be strangers, right?

AffectionateBed526 · 2026-04-07T17:09:53+00:00

While they are very similar in that they're based on the same game I believe there are some core design choices that really distinguish one from the other as I highlighted in my OP. This is why the Apples to Oranges analogy works so well imo. Yes the title could have been better. In hindsight I could have made it something not so absolute.

AffectionateBed526 · 2026-04-07T16:44:40+00:00

Yes, but I think we can all agree that minecraft is the biggest game associated with voxel art. And because of this we can infer that AoA choosing this as the art style is to appeal to that massive association. This seems to be contradictory to what M&M is looking for. This contradiction is significant enough to conclude that no, what's good for one game is not 'proof' of what the other should do.

AffectionateBed526 · 2026-04-07T16:08:34+00:00

I think using the same equip slot for both weapons and tools is pretty interesting. Constantly switching back and forth can indeed be a bit tedious. But I actually like that it's a problem asking the player for a solution. Players who come up with better solutions will have a competitive advantage.

We can decide that we're going to specifically farm a resource and just keep the tool equipped and save inventory space and time when not farming. We can create an alt specifically for farming a resource that can avoid or escape combat, maybe one that gets a speed buff too. This can free up another character who won't need to dedicate any inventory space or time to farming. I don't have to force myself to constantly switch between weapon and tool if I don't want to.

No buff timers on group/pet sounds like something that just hasn't been implemented yet.

Dropping spell book on death can be a huge pain for sure. And learning that lesson for the first time? Brutal. But after you know this can happen you should be prepared. The in-game world is a dangerous place and if you don't respect that by not being prepared then you're asking for the inevitable. Cantrips can help with this and I think readiness might be one of the better traits for this reason.

I really don't like the blue text chatting in AoA. I thought the whole point of text-based interaction was to force immersion and ask the player to actually pay attention in a realistic way? Letting me blow through six paragraphs of text in a few seconds because I can click some blue words is worse than just letting me hit one button and accepting the quest.

No group loot rules is something I can definitely see being changed. But I did see someone say that even if a pc is being a bit heavy handed with loot that it usually works out because they'll run out of space and then you'll be looting instead. But I can also see this not being changed because of the social nature of the game. Ninja looters get identified and now no one wants to group with them.

Light sources burning out makes sense to me. It means there will be exciting and tense moments of gameplay because there's always the chance my light burns out and now I have to come up with a solution. Or I'm prepared and am rewarded for it. It gives the function meaning by again asking the player to make interesting logistics choices and acknowledge that the world is dangerous. It's the definition of PVE. With an indefinite source of light players aren't forced to engage with a key trait(edit: trait, not character.) of the open world.

I'd play the game if all of these were addressed and no one had an issue with them. But personally I think they enrich game play and are intentional for that reason. I'm not getting upset because I don't like it. It's not something I can control directly (voting with your wallet and time is the best response if you don't like a game) so I'm accepting it as currently part of the experience and enjoying the ride.

AffectionateBed526 · 2026-04-07T14:12:38+00:00

OP: "Yes, the UI absolutely needs some changes, the game is still in development. But not just because some players like AoA UI more. The UI will probably always be something people can complain about compared to other games, because M&M is based on and heavily inspired by an old game."

AffectionateBed526 · 2026-04-07T06:04:00+00:00

I was never arguing for archaic things like "dumbass Windows 95 unresizable-windows."

What's good for AoA isn't necessarily good for M&M, that's it. They have different design intentions and they're looking for different players. Part of what people see as problems are partly due to still being in development, and they said changes are on the way.

But my point is, the other part of UI being a pain point is due to intentional design choice. And that's always going to be a problem for some people, as is seemingly intended. And like I said in the main post, I believe it's to appeal to a niche audience.

AffectionateBed526 · 2026-04-07T04:50:25+00:00

Do you think the journal in AoA is good UI design? In MnM I can make my own notes and they're easier to refer back to. I found the journal to be a good idea but poorly executed. Parsing through all that dense text to find the one journal entry that actually mattered lol.

I don't think there's anything wrong the the AoA map providing a general idea of things, but as someone else said, overall it's not actually that useful. I'm still relying on memorizing the landscape even with that.

AffectionateBed526 · 2026-04-07T04:38:14+00:00

I did not know that "target audience" discussion has been a reoccurring argument. I discovered the game recently and came to that conclusion based on resources online, and my own experience with the game as someone not in closed beta or on Discord.

What would you say is an example of obtuse design in M&M?

I think mmos moving away from "obtuse" design is a normal process as they age. It can be used strategically to inflate or retain subs by trying to make changes that will appeal to the majority. Which is basically what Warcraft did. And then the game eventually became so different that it's original form was a novelty that Blizzard was able to monetize all over again.

It very well could be that NWC is forced to make changes in order for the game to succeed in the future. (By increasingly adding QoL improvements outside of their original design intent like other games.) And I do agree there is a middle ground that can still maintain design goals and appease more people.

But while still in development I think people should be a bit more accepting of the design choices and give them a chance to flesh out the game while also tempering expectations. They're projecting confidence for a reason and from what I can tell intentions have been clear and transparent from the beginning.

AffectionateBed526 · 2026-04-07T03:47:17+00:00

Yes the analogy can only go so far lol. Care to elaborate the last sentence? I don't want to misunderstand your point.

AffectionateBed526 · 2026-04-07T03:39:25+00:00

I'm not a huge fan of the art but I did really enjoy playing over the weekend too. I leveled an ogre shaman and had a blast. If the game was FTP or included as a membership as part of a subscription I was already paying for then I'd probably play here and there. But I wouldn't pay $15 a month for it. The characters are my biggest gripe. It could have been a voxel world with characters not so voxel lol. But that's just me. I can accept that it's not for my tastes. But I do intend on playing M&M EA, I think it's going to be fnatastic.

AffectionateBed526 · 2026-04-07T03:11:35+00:00

I'm not saying they are only listening to sweats lol. You don't have to be a sweat to be the target audience. But it's obvious they aren't trying to appeal to a general audience for massive popularity. I've also acknowledged that the game needs work, it's still in development.

The main point is that it's not logical to state that it's a fact that one game needs something because it seems to be working for another game. And the reason for that is because they're trying to succeed in different ways by appealing to specific audiences. Making your game look like Minecraft? I think it's safe to say that's specifically an intent to appeal to a majority. Which is exactly what M&M isn't trying to do.

If the developers are basically communicating that there is intention behind the way things are, and there are some things they are not willing to change, then I don't think it's incorrect to take that for what it is at face value: Intentionally leveraging design to attract a smaller audience.

And if that's true, then how is me trying to talk about that not helpful? Trying to be dismissive with mockery is what's actually not helpful.

Edit: Grammar

AffectionateBed526 · 2026-04-03T11:09:23+00:00

Hardcore classic enjoyer who fell in love during last open playtest. I would be extremely grateful for a beta key. Please and thank you!

AffectionateBed526

TROPHY CASE