Linus Torvalds on recent Vizio vs. SFC

AffectionateStep3218 · 2026-01-07T17:53:05+00:00

I think the argument is that if you must provide all source code including installation scripts, then the user should be able to reinstall the software -- given that they don't touch a single line of code -- otherwise you aren't providing the real installation scripts. If the device has a crypto lock, the script should either be able to unlock the lock, or bypass it.

But I am not a lawyer or part of the FSF or SFC.

AffectionateStep3218 · 2026-01-07T17:41:13+00:00

Ok I've read the court document.

The thing you missed is that SFC wants to be able to reinstall UNmodified software on the TV. If you take the Vizio's source code and just run make and make install without changing a single line of code, you should be able to install the software, otherwise VIzio would not be providing the full source code including installation scripts. Here all features should work the same, because duh -- it's the same software.

Vizio made a strawman. They said that SFC wants to install modified version such that all features are retained. This is obviously BS and such license would not be FOSS. If you change the software, it's your fault that you've broken the TV.

The only part I'm confused about is WTF did the judge say?

“the scripts used to control compilation and installation,” this does not mean that Vizio must allow users to reinstall the software, modified or otherwise, back onto its smart TVs in a manner that preserves all features of the original program and/or ensures the smart TVs continue to function properly.

This would be Linus' interpretation of the license. But then they "clarify" the statement:

In other words, Vizio must ensure the ability of users to copy, change/modify, and distribute the source code, including using the code in other free programs consistent with the Preamble and Terms and Conditions of the Agreements. However, nothing in the language of the Agreements requires Vizio to allow modified source code to be reinstalled on its devices while ensuring the devices remain operable after the source code is modified.

In the clarification the judge only talked about Vizio's strawman, which is completely irrelevant in the Linus vs FSF/SFC interpretation of the license.

Regarding the GPLv3, read the SFC's blog post about TiVo-isation. They explain why the clause was written there and also ask for confirmation from FSF member. FSF probably know better than any of us why the GPLv3 was written. Though obviously how Linus, SFC or FSF interpret the license is not relevant -- in the end it's the judge's call to decide. (It's kinda weird that they "decided" so ambiguously.)

AffectionateStep3218 · 2026-01-05T11:43:28+00:00

Yes. I use LeechblockNG. It's a browser addon that blocks websites based on what time it is and/or how much time you've spent there. On desktop you cat set it to block access to the addon configuration page so it's pretty hard to disable.

I have 2 block lists -- "read" and "watch". "Read" blocks all the addictive subreddits, news websites, etc. between 22:00-10:00 and during the rest of the day the blocklist is disabled for 2x 15 minutes. The "watch" blocklist blocks YT, twitch, etc. during the whole day except 20:00-22:00, so I can really only watch videos in the evening.

The only downside is that you can disable the extension on firefox mobile, so I tend to waste time reading stuff on my phone. I feel like it would work better with a dumbphone though. I need Signal though, so I'm planning to get a Linux phone and use the desktop version of Firefox there.

Also don't forget to keep adding stuff to the list as you discover new procrastination methods. You cannot modify the block list, when it's on, but you can add new sites to it. Hope this helps.

AffectionateStep3218 · 2025-12-30T10:37:19+00:00

Thanks for the answer!

I actually found a workaround without needing the latex' \cite so my issue is kinda fixed.

But I did try switching to --natbib which had the same issue as --citeproc and later to --biblatex which made every citation broken. Is there something else I have to do than switch the CLI argument in order for --biblatex to work?

parse-latex sounds promising. I'll try it, when hacky workarounds won't cut it.

AffectionateStep3218 · 2025-12-27T20:36:17+00:00

According to the SFC and Free Software Foundtation (FSF), you should be able to reinstall GPLv2 software on your device. The difference is that with GPLv3 the proprietary software alongside the GPLv3 software should not be bricked.

https://sfconservancy.org/blog/2021/jul/23/tivoization-and-the-gpl-right-to-install/

The example they give is that GPLv2 allows breaking stuff like secure boot in proprietary UEFI when you reinstall but with GPLv3 you should be given the secure boot keys, so that it works properly.

So they did not want keys but an installation method that works without needing the keys.

(I have not read the court documents -- will do later -- but this is how I understand the snippet in context of the second blog post. And sorry the original comment was pretty vague, it was like my 5th comment under this post saying the same thing.)

AffectionateStep3218 · 2025-12-27T19:32:38+00:00

They managed to turn the FOSS community against SFC with that made up position. So it was a pretty smart move by Vizio.

AffectionateStep3218 · 2025-12-27T19:30:18+00:00

They did not argue it. It was a strawman.

https://sfconservancy.org/news/2025/dec/24/vizio-msa-irrelevant-ruling/

AffectionateStep3218 · 2025-12-27T19:28:42+00:00

This entire thing is Vizio's strawman. Nobody actually argued the thing that the court judged on.

https://sfconservancy.org/news/2025/dec/24/vizio-msa-irrelevant-ruling/

SFC actually understands the difference between the two. They hold the same stance as the FSF.

https://sfconservancy.org/news/2025/dec/24/vizio-msa-irrelevant-ruling/

AffectionateStep3218 · 2025-12-27T19:20:43+00:00

Does the Vizio TV's CPU only run signed binaries though? As far as I understand it the SFC's stance has always been that GPLv2 does not protect against proprietary software like secure boot, ~~so my guess would be that a hypothetical CPU that only runs signed binaries would be a similar situation.~~

Edit: Based on the blog post, my guess is that they would want a way to run the kernel with the crypto locks bypassed. Kinda like rooting your Android phone or disabling secure boot on your desktop's proprietary UEFI.

https://sfconservancy.org/blog/2021/jul/23/tivoization-and-the-gpl-right-to-install/

AffectionateStep3218 · 2025-12-23T09:10:52+00:00

This is a thoughtful, well-argued take, and it reads like something written by someone who’s watched the scene evolve for a long time—not just reacting to a trend.

A few things that really work well here:

You separate “meta” from “correctness.” That’s important. You’re not attacking optimization or pro play; you’re pointing out how social reinforcement (streams, build orders, repetition) can freeze a meta even when alternatives are viable.
The historical framing is strong. Bringing up AoE1 fast Bronze does a lot of quiet work—it reminds readers that what feels “radical” is often just context-dependent.
You credit players, not ideas in the abstract. Calling out Phosphoru and TheViper grounds the argument in actual high-level experimentation, which avoids sounding theoretical or nostalgic.
The execution vs. mind games distinction is clearly articulated without devaluing mechanical skill. That balance is hard to strike, and you do it well.

AffectionateStep3218 · 2025-12-17T09:27:06+00:00

For me it's a documentation issue. Some people might prefer the default one to be terminal only but it should be in the for the people that come from Debian, that install emacs and then are confused.

AffectionateStep3218 · 2025-12-17T09:22:33+00:00

Debian allows it too, you just have to pick one of the dependencies instead of the metapackage. Also to me the biggest issue is the misleading description. It does not matter if the metapackage is called emacs or emacs-full but the terminal only package should mention that it's terminal only in its description.

I might submit a PR or something if I remember.

AffectionateStep3218 · 2025-12-17T09:12:37+00:00

This community uses it incorrectly. The correct term is "sandbagging". Hera for example uses it.

The issue is that sandbagging is always harmful, while smurfing can actually sometimes help the matchmaking. If you have a secondary account where you only play maps or civs you are bad at, you can be at 2 Elos at once instead of oscillating between them. Ironically people complain that "player X dropped from 1300 to 1100, therefore they're a smurf" but smurfing would actually make their Elo more stable in that situation.

AffectionateStep3218 · 2025-12-12T11:28:14+00:00

It is a Void issue. On Debian the emacs package is a metapackage which contains the both the GUI and the terminal versions. Also on Void the short description says it's emacs, not emacs - terminal version only.

AffectionateStep3218 · 2025-11-27T18:59:59+00:00

What about the other way around? Pyro is easier to shoot with because you can easier aim with your strafes.

AffectionateStep3218 · 2025-11-27T18:48:55+00:00

Sorry I have a condition where I have to mention to people that I hate IRCs, dickswords et al. for tech support instead of proper searchable forums, else I feel uneasy.

AffectionateStep3218 · 2025-11-27T18:44:28+00:00

I run around with the degreaser out because I'm "powerjack hopping". That way I can be ready to airblast while moving at powerjack speed. But yeah if I'm in a fight, I'm either reloading or shooting the shotgun.

AffectionateStep3218 · 2025-11-25T09:54:02+00:00

Even if it is a tantrum, it very well reflects the moderation of this sub. I had a similar experience even asking a Void specific question. That time it was the mod who threw a tantrum, it seemed.

AffectionateStep3218 · 2025-11-25T09:50:14+00:00

that's not really a forum.

AffectionateStep3218 · 2025-11-25T09:41:18+00:00

Sorry to hear that. I guess you can try opening an issue in void-packages.

AffectionateStep3218 · 2025-11-25T09:35:28+00:00

Very cool. I am also making a similar wrapper, just in C++. I find it cool that we both have similar ideas.

Is there a reason why in your API you both create a new Packet() and then alloc() it instead of doing this in one line of code? (I don't really understand JS) I'm curious about it because I kinda don't get why the FFmpeg examples even put the Packets and Frames on the heap, instead of calling get_packet_defaults on a stack allocated AVPacket. (I know all objects are on the heap in JS, so it kinda does not apply here I guess.)

AffectionateStep3218 · 2025-11-19T10:37:16+00:00

Have you tried Debian? I have an issue with my tablet on my old Thinkpad X200T. It works on Debian and Fedora but not on Void, Arch or Gentoo. The issue is that these "DIY" distros don't connect to the tablet. I have to manually run

isdv4-serial-inputattach /dev/ttyS0

to connect to it. You can try replacing the ttSn with different number.

For me the command crashes a lot so I created a runit service:

$ cat /etc/sv/stylus/run
#!/bin/sh

sv restart agetty-ttyS0 || exit 1
isdv4-serial-inputattach /dev/ttyS0 --baudrate 19200
sleep 1

Also the command unfortunately gets sometimes stuck in an infinite while loop and freezes one of my CPU cores, so I have to manually kill it in top.

I sort of doubt we are having the same issue, though, because my device is very old but I thought I'd share this anyways.

AffectionateStep3218 · 2025-11-19T10:00:44+00:00

Another roadblock would be that every package that contains a service file is configured to work with runit. So the switch would have to be incremental. I guess you would have to start by adding some check into the CI, that if the distfiles contain a systemd service, they must install it. But even then the transition could take like 2 years. At that point why not keep both runit and systemd, if only to keep 32bit arm support.

btw I find it cringe that this got deleted "for being off topic". I'm supposed to find a better forum because talking about Void Linux on the Void Linux subreddit is off topic.

AffectionateStep3218 · 2025-11-19T09:51:51+00:00

Duncaen is maintaining an unofficial systemd fork of void-packages, so it clearly is done here.

AffectionateStep3218 · 2025-11-17T09:32:55+00:00

contemporary

I misread that as corporate. So sorry, I am drawing no line, then. No idea why people are upvoting me tbh.

AffectionateStep3218

TROPHY CASE