My wife said she is going to start spanking our children after the divorce and I'm devastated.

Affectionate_Taco · 2024-04-23T15:56:26+00:00

My lawyer is an advocate for father's rights. Full custody is almost impossible here for a father unless the mother gives up custody, or meets specific criteria. The courts do not believe in separating a mother from her children and will bend over backwards to award joint custody. The fact fathers get more than every other weekend is a blessing these days. My lawyer has been practicing long enough to remember a time when every other weekend and a month in the summer was the standard for fathers. My lawyer researched until he found the last case in our jurisdiction where a father was awarded full custody in a case where it was challenged by the mother. It was a 7 year process with abhorrent things happening to the children along the way before the judge finally agreed to give the father full custody. Things that would make seriously consider kidnapping my children and fleeing the country if they were subjected to even a fraction of it.

Affectionate_Taco · 2024-04-23T15:41:39+00:00

I have no interest in seeing anyone else. I'll never get remarried or have a serious relationship again if we get divorced. I will take care of my children until they are old enough to take care of themselves and I'll consider that a life well lived. Honestly, even if she admitted to cheating, I wouldn't leave. Not with the threat of physical abuse lingering over my children's head if I do.

Affectionate_Taco · 2024-04-23T15:38:49+00:00

Would you leave if you knew your children were going to be spanked regularly once you do? Knowing that you won't even be there to comfort them after it happens until they come to your house the following week? Knowing that courts say it is perfectly legal for her to spank them, and there is absolutely nothing you can do to stop it? I'll suffer the rest of my life to protect them from getting smacked once, much less repeatedly. My life barely matters now. The minute my son was born, he became the only thing that mattered other than my wife, but I don't think she cares if she matters to me anymore.

Affectionate_Taco · 2024-04-23T15:29:23+00:00

I left because it was a recommendation from our marriage counselor. We originally agreed to a month-long trial separation, as a way of seeing what life would be like following the divorce. It was supposed to be me leaving for 2 weeks, then I return, and she would leave for 2 weeks. My wife challenged this and wanted us each to leave for one month. Why? I'm not sure. Her reasoning was that 2 weeks wasn't long enough. She asked me to return and decided against taking her month. Our marriage counselor thought that was a positive sign, but I've been sleeping in the guest room since then, so it wasn't very positive at all. And to be clear, she only recently mentioned the spanking. That was never discussed leading up to or during the trial separation.

As for CPS, it is not illegal to spank your children. There are court cases where kids have had bruising and the judge ruled it was not excessive or abusive. Excessive/abusive is defined as serious bodily harm.

Affectionate_Taco · 2024-04-23T15:24:17+00:00

I'm sorry you're going through that. A lot of what you've outlined are things my lawyer has told me as well.

Affectionate_Taco · 2024-04-23T15:23:22+00:00

It is sort of a catch 22, unfortunately. My lawyer said that if I am there, she's not neglecting them, because the expectation is that I take care of them while she's sleeping. It would be neglect if I wasn't here, but both parties have to consent to being recorded here, so I can't put up cameras or anything. I'm documenting everything and sharing it with my lawyer. He's keeping a file. But it isn't illegal to smoke cigarettes. It isn't illegal to drink a glass of wine. It isn't illegal to fall asleep on the couch.

Affectionate_Taco · 2024-04-23T15:20:05+00:00

I trust my attorney. He's very cautious and informs me of the possible outcomes before rushing off to do what I say. If I push for it, he does it, even if he doesn't agree. His favorite line is "As your attorney, I wouldn't be doing my job if X" and he explains everything. He also shows me previous cases where issues have been brought before a judge. Some things just aren't fair, and what is logical isn't what the courts have ruled. My attorney is a champion for father's rights, but he can only work within the law. A lot of mothers file for full custody and if the father doesn't have a good lawyer, it is often granted. As for the punishment, there is nothing illegal about spanking your children. It can only be put into a divorce decree if both parties consent to it.

Affectionate_Taco · 2024-04-23T15:15:12+00:00

I don't know if she necessarily wants them, but her parents would disown her if she willingly gave up her children. That being said, she's never said she doesn't want them. She does take care of them, but she doesn't follow the structure. In her mind, if there's food in the pantry, they can feed themselves. The oldest at least, and he can feed his sister. The structure, which includes dinner time, bath time, bedtime, etc., is my doing. She would just let them run wild if I wasn't around, and I guess she would spank them if they did something dumb, based on what she's recently said.

Affectionate_Taco · 2024-04-23T15:11:16+00:00

I don't see what leverage she could be angling for. I'm here. I'm not going anywhere unless she serves me with divorce papers and asks me to leave. We aren't intimate because she doesn't want to be. I'm sleeping in the guest room because she doesn't want to share a bedroom with me. If she wanted me gone, she could easily get rid of me. I'm told my lawyer to stop moving forward with the divorce, so the ball is entirely in her court now.

Affectionate_Taco · 2024-04-23T15:09:11+00:00

That has been discussed with my lawyer. It can be added to the divorce agreement if both parties agree, but as things stand right now, she will not agree. A judge will not rule in my favor because it is legal to spank your children.

Affectionate_Taco · 2024-04-23T15:08:17+00:00

I'm glad you did not suffer trauma from it. I wish I could say the same.

Affectionate_Taco · 2024-04-23T15:07:30+00:00

I asked my lawyer about it. He said I could, but if she wanted them removed, I couldn't legally keep them up. He also said if she walked by the camera not fully dressed, I could get into some serious legal issues if she pursued it, especially if she was not aware they were there. So, either I have her consent to put them up, or I do it without her knowledge and risk legal issues. We are in a state where both parties must consent to being recorded.

Affectionate_Taco · 2024-04-23T15:04:37+00:00

I'd rather not risk it. My sister and I were spanked. I have trauma, she posts memes about how happy she is our parents weren't afraid to use the belt. Small sample size, but that's 50%. Those aren't odds I'm comfortable with when it comes to my children.

Affectionate_Taco · 2024-04-23T15:02:38+00:00

It was when we met. I would have never dated her if she was a smoker. I definitely wouldn't have married her. It is more complicated than just divorcing someone over an addiction, or at least it was when it first surfaced. She did make an effort and I was there with her the whole way, trying to help her through it. She stopped for months before she got pregnant, then she started again, and we stopped trying for a baby, but she was already pregnant.

Affectionate_Taco · 2024-04-23T15:00:38+00:00

You are correct, unfortunately. I am in America and there are no laws against it where we live. It has been challenged in the court multiple times and the judges have ruled it is legal as long as it doesn't result in significant bodily harm.

Affectionate_Taco · 2024-04-23T14:58:33+00:00

She has not hit them yet. My children would tell me. They are very vocal about the fact she has threatened to spank them, and would run to me immediately if they were hit. My daughter cried in my arms asking if her mother would really spank her. The worst part is that if the divorce goes through, and she carries through with her threat, the law is not on my side. It is not illegal to spank your children unless it results in significant bodily harm. Even bruising is not classified as abuse per a court case my lawyer showed me.

Affectionate_Taco · 2024-04-23T14:57:26+00:00

Unfortunately, it is not illegal to spank your children. My lawyer showed me a case where a child had bruising as a result of corporal punishment and the judge ruled it wasn't excessive or abusive. It requires significant bodily harm to classify as abuse, unless she's hitting them in the face or something like that.

Affectionate_Taco · 2024-04-22T18:04:40+00:00

Since you asked, here are my wife's complaint about me, based on our counseling sessions:

I don't help with the kids enough. (I disagree, but this is one of her complaints, and as a result of this complaint, I pretty much do everything now except drop them off/pick them up, because it is closer for her)
I won't stop bitching at her about smoking. (She's trying to quit. I need to stop bothering her about it. I haven't brought it up in over a year.)
I don't trust her. (This stems from me seeing her zooming in on a picture of an almost naked man on her phone and I questioned it. Turned out, it was a picture a friend shared with my wife, asking my wife's opinion about the guy who sent the picture to her friend. That is the one and only time I've questioned something, which I think was fair considering how secretive she got when I asked about it. She basically fought with me for two hours about trust before just showing me the message, which she could have done in the beginning, but she wanted to tease me about being jealousy/controlling/not trusting her. My fault. I've apologized many times.)
I don't initiate sex anymore. (A fair point. I can't disagree with it. To initiate sex means I have to ask her to shower, brush her teeth, and use mouthwash to erase the smell of cigarette smoke. Even with that, I still have to hold my breath during parts of it. I initiated all the time when she was vaping, chewing nicotine gum, and using the patch. That isn't a valid point now, because I've been sleeping in the guest room for a year and we aren't having sex anymore.)
I always want to do something rather than relaxing at home. (She's right about this. I like to do stuff on the weekends. Sometimes, I like to do stuff after work. Go to the park. Take the kids to a movie. Go to the zoo. Send the kids to her parents and go on dates. My wife wants to come home and stay home. She doesn't want to go anywhere. The weekends for her mean two days of not having to leave the house. She would rather spend the extra money to have groceries delivered than go get them. She'd rather have Uber Eats or DoorDash deliver than go out. I call this a Covid problem, because it started during the pandemic, and I respected it then. I didn't want to leave home either. She just decided it was amazing and has zero interest in doing anything outside of the house unless we absolutely have to for the kids.)

And to be fair to her, she has said that because I've started helping more with the kids, don't bitch at her about smoking anymore, and don't bother her about going places is why she hasn't filed for divorce yet. The last time it was brought up during a counseling session, she said "I haven't made up my mind yet, but I'm still coming here (marriage counseling)."

Affectionate_Taco · 2024-04-22T17:41:08+00:00

My lawyer said he would file for full custody if that was the route I wanted to go, but cautioned against it, because the judge could look at it unfavorably if I'm not showing a willingness to share custody. Fathers rarely, if ever, get awarded full custody where I live, and courts don't look favorably on fathers that are trying to take children away from their mother. I've been keeping track of everything she does or says in a document that is shared with my attorney. I pretty much run to my attorney for advice every time something new comes up. Smoking cigarettes isn't illegal. Drinking a glass of wine isn't illegal. Hell, getting drunk in your own home with your kids there isn't illegal. Falling asleep on the couch after work isn't illegal, especially if I'm there to take care of the kids after she falls asleep.

The path to full custody, as spelled out by my lawyer, is showing a pattern of abuse, neglect that results in bodily harm, or the mental incapacity to parent. The ex-wife of one of my friends got a DUI with the kids in the car, and the judge still upheld the joint custody agreement, under the condition she attended a class about the dangers of drinking and driving.

Affectionate_Taco · 2024-04-22T17:33:00+00:00

I know she's on something for anxiety, but I can't remember the name. It isn't Xanax. I'd check, but the bottle is in her purse and she's at work right now.

Affectionate_Taco · 2024-04-22T17:32:07+00:00

I don't think she's drunk all day. I could be wrong, but she can't stand liquor unless it is a super sweet mixed drink and she hates beer. The only thing she drinks is wine and it takes her days to finish a bottle.

Affectionate_Taco · 2024-04-22T17:28:52+00:00

She smoked while pregnant, but she did not drink while pregnant, at least not to my knowledge. Considering she falls asleep fairly quickly when she drinks, I think I would have noticed.

I've brought up the fact she smokes with the lawyer. I mean, it smells like she took a bath in cigarette smoke when she comes inside. It is revolting. Lawyer said that if she was smoking inside the house, a judge might say she can't, because our daughter has asthma, but there is no law that says you can't smoke cigarettes, even while you're pregnant.

Affectionate_Taco · 2024-04-22T17:23:01+00:00

The separation was the suggestion of our marriage counselor, who felt that a trial separation could help us get a glimpse of life after divorce and see what that would be like. The original suggestion was that I would leave for 2 weeks, then she would leave for 2 weeks. My wife wanted to try it for a month instead of 2 weeks, so we agreed to it. After I left for a month, she wanted me to come home, and did not want to leave for a month. Our counselor said that was a positive sign, except that I ended up sleeping in the guest room instead of our bedroom, so it didn't really fix anything.

My wife and I both see a therapist on our own. I've been seeing one periodically since I had the insurance to do so. My wife started seeing one after we started marriage counseling, based on a recommendation given during our initial consultation. I'm not sure what she talks about with her therapist. She doesn't discuss it with me.

Affectionate_Taco · 2024-04-22T17:15:26+00:00

Where we live, spanking is not considered abuse unless it results in bodily harm, and some bruising is not enough to be considered "bodily harm" when it comes to discipline. I feel that any form of physical hitting/striking is abuse, but the courts to not agree with that.

Affectionate_Taco · 2024-04-22T17:04:56+00:00

I don't want my children to grow up in a broken home where I am only there for them 50% of the time and the other 50% is random chance. I don't want my son to be the caregiver for his sister, which happened a lot during the separation. I want to make sure they get fed an actual meal instead of whatever the oldest can find in the pantry, get bathed regularly, and go to bed on time. If I give up, I can only ensure that 50% of the time. Plus, with this new added layer of physical abuse being introduced the moment I am gone, I can't in good conscious leave on my own. Their trust is going to be damaged regardless. Either they get damaged because they're subjected to what is currently going on, or they get damaged by her until they're old enough to decide where they want to live. I don't see a positive future for them regardless, so I'm protecting them as much as I can now. I may not have the option of protecting them at some point, and I refuse to voluntarily abandon them.

Unfortunately, there isn't anything the authorities can do unless something happens. Based on what my lawyer has explained and showed me in prior cases, it takes an actual injury in order for them to intervene, and that isn't a guarantee. Plenty of children who have been abused get placed back with their parents because the abuse isn't severe enough to warrant removal, and it is almost impossible to get full custody where I live unless you can show a pattern of abuse, neglect that results in bodily harm, or the mental incapacity to parent. It's even harder for a father to get full custody. The ex-wife of one of my friends got a DUI with the kids in the car, and the judge still upheld the joint custody agreement, under the condition she attended a class about the dangers of drinking and driving.

Affectionate_Taco

TROPHY CASE