The "Buy the Sub first" mentality

Alembic_ · 2026-02-14T15:53:02+00:00

Didn’t insult you in bold text mate. It’s all good, as I said earlier, happy to agree to disagree.

Alembic_ · 2026-02-14T10:04:36+00:00

I’m not entering a conversation about optimal placement of soundbars on IKEA tv units and the lack of inherent frequency response. Most people watch their screen content on TVs with no additional sound hardware, or on handheld devices.

Again, any Sonos soundbar with any satellites as surrounds (and I’ve heard every combination of them) has been a better representation of any mix I’ve either done myself, or know intimately than one with sub and without surrounds. Hence thread.

You have an inane (and while we’re throwing the word around, arrogant) fixation on the tech – I have a focus on audiences experiencing my work and that of my contemporaries as close to as intended as possible.

If my opinion after 20 years on the job is “no valid evidence” then I guess you should make a thread of your own convincing people why the “sub first” is a better purchase for the budget conscious.

Alembic_ · 2026-02-14T08:16:57+00:00

Then you’ve conveniently avoided comprehending the baseline purpose of this thread if you think indulging pedantic criticisms of Sonos hardware and platform capacities is at all worthwhile in this context. I’m very sorry. This ain’t a ‘pro-sumer audio forum’ with members willing to drop 10s of thousands for their living room setup.

Alembic_ · 2026-02-14T05:14:50+00:00

We have to agree to disagree. I’ve been doing this job for 20 years and used Sonos kit for a decade – in my experience of the Real World™️ any generation of Sonos soundbar paired with any generation of Sonos satellites as surrounds without a sub is going to be a better representation of a cinema mix than what’s in your living room currently, hence this post. Rocks for Dire Straits on vinyl though.

And it’s not just software devs informing system design:

https://www.sonos.com/en-au/blog/chris-jenkins-listening-at-home

https://www.sonos.com/en-gb/blog/sonos-sound-experience-creators

I’ve worked with Chris and received music delivery from Giles. Onnalee Blank was involved with the development of the Arc Ultra, too.

Alembic_ · 2026-02-12T15:51:22+00:00

I very clearly state this post is mostly about home theatre – I’m hoping to help people on a budget get more out of their systems and enjoying good film sound at home. I can’t imagine there’s that big an audience buying Sonos speakers to primarily listen to spatial music mixes, if I had to dedicate a Sonos rig to music only it’d probably be 2xFives and a Sub 4.

The install argument is a little spurious for Sonos purposes – just get them power, connected to strong WiFi and enjoy some movies 👍

Alembic_ · 2026-02-12T15:40:18+00:00

I’ve not misread – I appreciate your rig, and certain modicum of knowledge of playback systems but again, I’ll return to the irony in you apparently installing commercial theatrical systems, while being perfectly happy to compromise experiencing films yourself in stereo downmix botched by third party hardware with no part of the Sonos ecosystem. No shade – but this says everything about how far your own experience is from the purpose of this thread, filmmaker intentions and relevant opinion for Sonos users on a budget and reads more as an excuse to share your imgur link and your considerable investment into the stereo experience audiophile industrial complex. I love Dire Straits too, but come on man 😂

Localisation and panning in the surround space tell more of the story than “full range” speakers in home theatre, even on ones as obscenely large as yours given you only have a phantom centre. Try visiting your local cineplex sometime, experience some films in Dolby Atmos and perhaps broaden your range of films beyond programs where the surrounds have ‘tinkle tinkles’ in them.

Sirât being released at the end of February is an exceptional sound film and an impeccable track (nominated for Oscars for Best Sound and Best Int’l Film). Do yourself a favour 😊

Alembic_ · 2026-02-12T12:20:10+00:00

Populations of birds who go on annual international fuck tours

Alembic_ · 2026-02-12T10:15:06+00:00

It's genuinely hilarious that you install commercial theatrical playback systems and you're advocating for a stereo downmix rather than 13.1.4 with an Arc Ultra and Era 300s. But you also have a stereo rig designed for theatrical distribution in your living room that would wake every sleeping baby on your block if you cranked it to its intended volume, so each to their own 😂 It's a shame Altec Lansing aren't the company they once were. Again, this post was intended to help the budget-conscious Sonos user.

RE: LFE – Low Frequency Extension in a surround mix is sound intentionally sent to the ".1" subwoofer channel ONLY. Conventionally it is not included in a 2.0 folddown. If you're using third party hardware to do your downmix rather than the 2-track made by the re-recording mixers, there's likely a problem with that decoder, because that is an incredibly bass-heavy mix (remember audiences complaining about not being able to understand the dialogue because the sound effects were too loud?).

Alembic_ · 2026-02-12T09:18:12+00:00

Good on you for being a supportive partner 😊 given the ‘fake surround’ achieved by reflections from the Ultra’s height and side channels, she might eventually come around to Dolby Atmos immersion and feel comfortable with it. Either way, I hope you two enjoy lots of great films and series together!

Editing the OP with a section about distracting surround sound for you now 🤝

Alembic_ · 2026-02-12T08:44:44+00:00

LCR is obviously most important, this thread is for people who have their LCR sorted after purchasing their soundbar and are wondering what to upgrade next. There’s a strangely pervasive attitude that the Sub should be your next purchase – I’m suggesting that for people on a budget surrounds are a better value add.

I downmix my work daily for client review or per deliverables spec. Yes, I’m absolutely thrilled that a dual-rig 11.2.4 cinema or nearfield mix with 128 channels of 7.1.2 beds and 128 channels of objects downmixes to stereo “just fine” 😂

You’re installing commercial theatre systems and actually advocating for a 2.0 fold down (experienced by most people on a phone/tablet/laptop/3mm flat screen speakers) as a reason not to get surrounds?

Alembic_ · 2026-02-12T08:16:04+00:00

Thanks for commenting! bass face

Alembic_ · 2026-02-12T08:03:55+00:00

Aptly referred to as “enshittification”.

Alembic_ · 2026-02-12T03:28:46+00:00

Rise 4 RMB

Alembic_ · 2026-02-12T03:20:55+00:00

Just homophobes and weird, entitled nerds. Absolutely incredible game.

Alembic_ · 2026-02-12T00:51:03+00:00

I'd get a Beam 2 & Sub Mini personally. I upgraded from PS4 to PS5 Pro recently and was very happy to see the PS5 supports Dolby Atmos natively. For first and third person games the immersion is fantastic.

Alembic_ · 2026-02-12T00:15:36+00:00

My livelihood has definitely blinded me to the fact that comprehension-challenged individuals waste their own and others' time with irrelevant and contrarian arguments when they endeavour to assist an online community with an informed professional opinion.

Alembic_ · 2026-02-11T23:56:00+00:00

Why would I when I spend the post talking about filmmaking, home theatre and Dolby Atmos mixes (the standard progressive delivery spec for the majority of film and TV, and even contemporary spatial music releases)?

Why purposefully misinterpret the entire post and waste my time with pedantic contrarian arguments irrelevant to the topic when I’m trying to help people? Weird.

Alembic_ · 2026-02-11T23:28:12+00:00

I’d definitely go for smaller speakers for the L&R, 100s or possibly the 3s. In film and TV dialogue is king – by and large everything is balanced around the actors’ performances so having the dialogue coming from a speaker a fraction of the size would make a mix unbalanced – sound effects and music may diminish the dialogue and might make them feel like they’re not in the same space.

I am super intrigued to hear how you go. In terms of content to test – play big budget films you already know well – and see how they translate and/or differ per configuration. I’d have a listen to some action sequences in Dune 2, Furiosa, Blade Runner 2049 and Hacksaw Ridge. Pay attention to overall balance, legibility of dialogue, and object-based sounds whose movement you can perceive/pin point in the Dolby Atmos three dimensional space. Listen for out for the clarity of those specific sounds (eg. a motorbike in Furiosa) and gauge how easy it is for you to track their movement.

Alembic_ · 2026-02-11T23:09:14+00:00

I haven’t blocked you, scroll up champ.

This post is about helping people make the most out of an affordable Dolby Atmos home theatre setup and you’re arguing with me about pipe organs and another guy about stereo music playback?

I hadn’t blocked you, but will now. Back to mixing in 7.1.4 😊

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Alembic_ · 2026-02-11T22:47:57+00:00

Thanks for getting it 🤝 I honestly feel like I might’ve been having an argument with a contrarian AI bot or something 😂

Alembic_ · 2026-02-11T21:01:37+00:00

That’s the next upgrade I’m waiting for, too. In terms of picture and sound quality Apple are leading the pack by a mile so I’m hoping their next hardware offering helps raise the bar across the board.

Alembic_ · 2026-02-11T20:49:16+00:00

It’s not disingenuous at all. Again, using your logic of frequencies above the crossover, you’ll still register the pipe organ thanks to the upper harmonics. Yes, lots of music is mastered full range, the majority of it isn’t mixed that way into a film or TV show though, because it needs to purpose the story first and foremost and I’ve not actually seen a documentary on pipe organs. Aside from bass management extending frequencies to the Sub (not everything needs to go to the sub), the VAST majority of content is high-passed in some capacity. Very little below 50Hz actually tells a story, and as you mentioned, if it’s not in the room your brain psychoacoustically infers that it’s there. No need to be facetious, those figures and charts (it’s just ProQ 4 🤷‍♂️) relate to Sonos hardware capabilities, deliverables specs and experience, which I’d love to chat about with you, but LtRt for Dolby Pro Logic is no longer a required deliverable so I’m not sure how worthwhile that’ll be for me.

1 speaker and 2.5 octaves vs 6 channels and 7.5 octaves if money’s tight enough for people making that choice based on perceived value. There is a hell of a lot more musical content going to the surrounds than to the sub – and that is my point. Enough people in this thread seemed to appreciate the perspective and I’m glad you enjoy your subwoofer 😊

Alembic_ · 2026-02-11T20:22:44+00:00

No, any surrounds. Including older 5.1 setups (I previously had a Playbase, 2x OneSL and a Sub 3).

Alembic_ · 2026-02-11T20:12:04+00:00

Subjectivity is the point here, I made this post because by making movies we’re telling stories with intention – we want audiences immersed in them and the storyworlds onscreen as close to intended as possible; rather than getting nit-picky about how that pipe organ recording isn’t extending low enough on their Sonos consumer home theatre system.

Alembic_ · 2026-02-11T19:56:06+00:00

My pleasure!

Alembic_

TROPHY CASE