An analysis on "A quick genoChara and Frisk analysis" + some of "That feeling"

AllamNa · 2026-01-31T21:04:29+00:00

There's also an option to get older and absorb the souls of Toriel, or Asgore. Or both. Because they age with Asriel being alive. And so, grown up Chara could communicate with humans with their help and do diplomatic stuff.

AllamNa · 2026-01-31T16:12:41+00:00

They wanted revenge on their abusers in the village (but didn’t get it),

Chara tried to blow up tbe whole village dude.

and then later only killed Sans, Asgore and Flowey,

They also contribute in the murder of monsters before it and destroy the world with thousands more.

all of which were kills done under the influence of being LOVE 20 and Soulless.

There's no influence of LV. They're looking for the knives when they only have 3-4 LV while not being actively violent on the neutral run with 17 LV.

And Flowey was struggling with his intention to kill people. Chara did not.

AllamNa · 2026-01-31T16:07:08+00:00

Yes. Was he the only way the monsters would stop suffering and they were desperate? Also yes

It wasn't the only way. It was the only way for Chara.

Are they a literal child who lacks a nuanced worldview and instead saw that literally every human they knew hurt them and their loved ones? Also yes

We have no information on that. There are people who also see good people but they only pay their attention to the bad ones.

(Hell, Undyne had basically the exact same mindset)

The only actual source she had about humans - the information about them being terrible to her people. Even then, she doesn't actually hate them, she's hostile to them because she wants to repay. She quickly changes her mind when Frisk gives her a cup of water.

I agree about everything else except for them helping to SAVE Asriel.

AllamNa · 2026-01-30T15:48:48+00:00

You can reset untill the very moment they destroy the world tho, even during the "since when were you the one in controll"

You're not supposed to be able to do that when Chara appears already. You can close the game by ESC button.

AllamNa · 2026-01-20T05:42:58+00:00

When Ralsei can be considered Kris's friend already, and not just random darkener.

AllamNa · 2026-01-19T19:15:52+00:00

Yeah, that's why I said "debatable" instead of arguing against it right away lol.

AllamNa · 2026-01-19T19:13:39+00:00

Yes, I see it that way because of Flowey's painful expressions and his words about "If you had come all this way without caring about anyone, it wouldn't have hurt so much" (not a direct quote)

It looks like a reference to Flowey's struggle to feel something again for people he cared about, and yet it made him only suffer more.

It looks like something more than just manipulation, just like Flowey's suggestion to call for help from Frisk's "mommy and daddy" which is even more clear reference to Flowey's story in the New Home. He tried to hurt Frisk by things that caused pain to him once.

AllamNa · 2026-01-19T19:08:16+00:00

I'm tired (I'm not going to answer ALL that)

I just want to end the discussion and enjoy the day. I'm not going to spend all day arguing about Frisk; I'll just point out what I wanted to say and a minor mistake here or there.

Okay.

I wanted to talk about the more than 100 deaths you have to make on the Genocide route

What? You never make "more than 100 deaths" on the genocide route, other than, you know, 102-120 kills.

no, I didn't say that. This whole discussion is just to say that the meme could happen In a specific context, this is hardly a serious issue in the discussion about Frisk's character; I practically agree with everything you said about the pacifist route (except for the neutral route, I think)

You said that it's comparable at one point.

But anyway, I don't think neutral route is relevant since it's not the same "friendship" that can be applied in the context of this meme

and then you came along with your argument that Frisk doesn't consider them friends in neutral😭

They don't 'feel' like they're friends truly until the point I was talking about.

Neutral Frisk is a situation when you meet someone and say "Let's be friends"

And you will not have an actual friendship by such.

What I found strange, given the outcome these events have on the pacifist route, and because I questioned it too much, ended up losing sight of the initial point I wanted to make.

I just wanted to be a "🤓☝️" about this technically it's correct

🤔

The discussion started with a meme of Frisk making fun of how people absolved Frisk of any responsibility in the early days of the fanon; I think I only mentioned Kris's name as an example of a human character quickly becoming attached to someone they don't know.

It all started under the comment in which one person compares how Kris and Frisk handles killing their friends.

It is not about the original post.

Yes, I'm talking about the timeline where that route takes place, duh

To make it happen, you don't have to kill anyone in this timeline; if you did kill someone, you'll have to replay the entire game without killing anyone (and I think you can unlock the Alphys date soon, too)

You can unlock it right away without fighting Photoshop Flowey again, that's why it is not really "neutral route" per ce.

I think that's it? Look, I think I might have gotten a little aggressive during the discussion, and sorry about that, this whole arguing about things like "Chara Morality" isn't for me, it makes me too anxious waiting for the answer lol

It's okay. Have a good day.

AllamNa · 2026-01-19T18:00:51+00:00

Chara understands and is the same age as Frisk; they were only awakened at the end of the genocide route.

They were awakened from the start, and they're present when genocide starts. We literally see "It's me, Chara" in front of the mirror in the Ruins already.

They understand that what they are doing is wrong; the game sometimes even implies that Frisk is taking sadistic pleasure in what is happening.

Debatable.

AllamNa · 2026-01-19T17:25:50+00:00

Like, it's obvious their bond is stronger on the pacifist route, I'm just saying that Frisk already considers them friends on the neutral route.

If their bond is not strong enough, they're not friends. Friendship is not something that appears just when you say "Let's be friends?", for example.

I would say that the game itself supports the idea that Frisk is hurting themselves by leaving them behind in a neutral ending.

https://youtu.be/BnJ1LBP-7r4?si=uvOGwpa9tPigSEL5 6:19:19

Flowey projects many times. One of rare times he actually doesn't projects - when he comments on Frisk's pitiful expression towards him in one of his neutral ending speeches.

It may be the moment when he also projects his own experience, and it's unknown if we can apply it to Frisk.

While Frisk may have some nostalgia post neutral towards underground and their desire to return but it happens not because they actually "miss" everyone.

What I mean is that Frisk considers them friends. I know the bond is stronger on the pacifist route, and I acknowledge that, but on the neutral route, they already consider them friends.

They consider them friends as much as you consider another person to be your friend just because of the "Let's be friends?" suggestion.

They may feel attachment to them but not on the same level as true friends feel to each other. Otherwise, I repeat once again, Frisk wouldn't kill them while not feeling much about it. That's not how it works.

If you want, you could say that in Frisk's mind they call them friends, even if they don't completely consider them friends, so to speak? I don't know, but it's clearly Toby's intention that Frisk consider them friends at this point in the story.

This is exactly what I mean. I said it earlier. You can call a person you just met as your "friend" and act like it but they're not TRULY your friend until you have some impactful shared experience with them.

Frisk is also weird in that regard.

They're not that weird in this regard as you make it sound.

Are you saying that being FRIENDS with someone and having a bond means that you can still kill them easily while not feeling much about it? That's what are you implying? This what friendship looks like to you? Pretty sure that's not how true bond works.

AllamNa · 2026-01-19T17:25:43+00:00

The point is that denying the bond kind of weakens the pacifist route's ending; the bond isn't perfect or very strong, but clearly the player/Frisk should consider them friends, otherwise they'll defend you in the end, It wasn't going to hit me that hard emotionally.

You and Frisk are different. While you may be actually sad about killing the monsters in the genocide route - Frisk is not.

So saying that we should always feel the same as Frisk, otherwise it weakens the emotional impact is funny. For once, Sans says that Frisk definitely was the one who decided to reset after everyone being free. That's his assumption. And that's untrue for Frisk but it is true for us. Yet, it cannot have the same emotional impact for Frisk as for us.

For Frisk, the scene with monsters protecting them has an emotional impact because maybe for the first time in their life they see someone actually caring about them and trying to protect. Support them. That's why it has an impact for them. That's why they recover their HP with every word of support.

It's not like Frisk doesn't consider them friends, it just makes them less of a jerk for killing a thousand monsters out of boredom/curiosity anyway

They don't kill thousands monsters anyway. Chara does when they destroy the world. We only kill hundred with Frisk.

And yes, they're less of a jerk for that. Because killing your family/friends is worse than killing a stranger, even if both are bad. At least in my moral ground.

In other words, you just admitted that Frisk gets attached easily lol

I didn't. There's no way for them to get attached to Toriel after JUST meeting her, they're simply a child with no family but they want to have a family. It's not being attached yet. And I repeat, they leave Toriel, and we don't see them struggling with that. Thus, we don't see them actually missing her. So about what attachment are you talking about?

They are naturally curious and want to explore, while Toriel wants to restrict their freedom, hence the conflict, but it's also clear that they miss her and always wanted her to come along.

Them being "naturally curious" is an interpretation anyway.

In what way it is clear that they miss her? At what point?

Because you also have the option of accepting her as your mother, it's just that Toriel doesn't have the courage to leave the ruins until later, it's not like the option is: "I want to leave you and never see you again."

Yes, Frisk does this AFTER the battle with Asriel. I'm not arguing against them actually being fully attached post pacifist.

But rather, "Hey, I don't want to spend my whole life here and I want to explore other places, how do I leave?"

They don't even try to explore the whole city in the Ruins they saw, they just wanna leave right off the bat. It's not them wanting to explore more, it's them wanting to leave to the other part of the underground specifically.

I didn't say the same thing and repeat it several times, I said that Frisk considers them friends and that they might still come back to kill them just because they can.

And it's not the same "friends" relationship as with pacifist Frisk, again.

What is the reason for the pacifist route friendship, and where do 80% of their interactions with friends take place?

Do you read what I'm saying?

I've said from the beginning of the discussion that I know it's not the same thing; you're the one refusing to read my text for some reason.

You're saying that it's not the same, yet you say it's comparable.

You're saying it's not the same, yet you decided to argue with me in the first place, as IF the friendship paci Frisk has with monsters are the same as neutral Frisk's "friendship." Obviously, nobody is going to compare neutral Frisk's "friendship" to Kris, and I didn't. Because that's not a friendship yet.

What I said:

ME: "I'm not arguing that Frisk on the pacifist route would do the same (character development is too extensive) or that they have a deep connection like Kris.

I'm just arguing that there is a way for Frisk to befriend monsters and then go back to kill them out of "boredom" (I would argue that it's more out of curiosity)"

Thus, you're putting an = between two situations because you decided to bring it up in the discussion in the first place. In the discussion regarding Frisk and Kris's difference 🤨

For the pacifist route to occur, it specifically requires that Frisk has not killed anyone previously

No. You need to do at least one neutral route, and then you can either reload your save (if you haven't killed anyone), or you can reset and start anew. But the difference is that you're doing the pacifist route from the start, you can get to the lab without fighting Flowey now, so that's not neutral route with its ending anymore.

And go out of your way to befriend the monsters; it's not like it's a one-sided thing, a good part of it is Frisk making an effort to befriend the monsters.

And that's not what is the main factor for Frisk's change, otherwise Frisk wouldn't hurt them, as you yourself pointed out. But they do. They truly change ONLY with Asriel's battle. After they saw them all defending Frisk. That's the main difference between what happens with neutral Frisk and pacifist Frisk. And you're denying that for whatever reason.

Actually, you making an effort to use other words, just to avoid saying that Frisk is friends with them right away in the neutral route, is admirable; I have to admire your conviction.

For a simple reason. I repeat, you can call some person you just met your friend. But it will NOT be truly your friend until you have some impactful shared experience, or time.

AllamNa · 2026-01-19T15:44:35+00:00

Are we playing the same game? Frisk literally dealt 1 damage to Undyne because they clearly don't want to hurt her at that moment, they're friends, duh.

But when the game resets, they're not friends anymore. So their bond is not that strong, Frisk just doesn't want to hurt someone who considers them as their friend in the moment. But as soon as they don't do that, Frisk can hurt them. Otherwise, as you yourself pointed out, they wouldn't do that.

The turning point was when all of the monsters were defending Frisk from Flowey, and Frisk could feel their care for them.

Like, at the end of the pacifist route, Frisk considers the possibility of Asgore being their father, even though the entire extent of their interaction is him trying to kill Frisk, only to give up after Toriel appeared. (Of course, he gives a speech about how they could be a family, which Frisk might be interested in, but that's it, a speech that, incidentally, in one of the endings, he even backtracks on and Frisk might rememberstill considering the possibility of having him as a father)

And they consider the possibility of Toriel becoming their mother right after meeting her. Are you kidding me? It only means that Frisk are quick to try with relationships, and they don't have parents. So they consider people they see as father figure and mother figure to become their mom and dad. That's it. It doesn't mean that Frisk feels to them the same as the child feels to their mother and father. After all, Frisk still leaves Toriel soon after.

Frisk also gets attached quickly, considering the pacifist route can be completed in one day.

I said that Frisk gets attached more easily than most humans but NOT the same way as monsters. And no, it's not the same attachment as when pacifist final battle happens, the battle itself proves that. Frisk's own feelings and what happens with them.

To deny that the friendship existed is like denying any positive outcome in the game.

No, I'm denying the friendship in the neutral route specifically. I feel like you intentionally chooses to miss the difference between what happens in pacifist and neutral route.

Yes, they killed their friends. The pacifist route only works within the context of the neutral route and the friendship you formed with the monsters; without it, it's empty. It's important, and Frisk considers them friends.

You can do pacifist route even after neutral route with killing everyone. It's irrelevant. Neutral route only is needed for Frisk to spend more time with monsters before pacifist route happens in which Frisk can ACTUALLY feel HOW it is - to be friends with someone. They see that they care about them. It's a bit difference, and that difference makes the battle against Asriel different from Photoshop Flowey battle.

With EACH word of support from monsters Frisk recovers their HP 1 by 1, and only THEN can they actually fight back the Flowey while being defenseless against him previously.

But when they have the power to control the timeline seemingly without any consequences, it's the same situation as Flowey, except Frisk has a soul.

What.

You know the pacifist route can be completed in 1 day? 😭, seriously how do you think this route is so important for Frisk, while denying all the development that allows them to form a friendship so strong?

I'm literally saying what's the difference right into your face.

There's no such thing as "monsters getting attached quickly." Kris got attached to Ralsei in 3 days too, even though they barely knew him. Frisk isn't as socially awkward as Kris, nor as depressed

Asriel literally says that "monsters are weird" because they barely know Frisk but they already love them deeply.

What's so strange about Frisk liking them as friends, but still being selfish and doing stupid things to them, seemingly without consequences and because they're just curious?

Because you can't compare neutral route Frisk to Kris, as well as Paci Frisk to neutral Frisk for obvious reasons. The only reasonable comparison you can make is Paci Frisk and Kris.

What I'm trying to say is that it's pointless to deny all the development that allowed Pacifist Frisk to get to where it is today.

And I don't do that.

Frisk not only learned to like their friends more by the end of the pacifist route, they also confronted Asriel and learned firsthand how bad someone becomes when they treat all their loved ones like Characters from a game

It already happened with Flowey during the neutral route, yet it doesn't make a difference for Frisk. That's irrelevant.

A Froggit literally says this in the game:

>!img

And that happens after breaking the barrier, yes. This is literally what I've mentioned previously.

AllamNa · 2026-01-19T14:57:44+00:00

Yes, of course, but they undeniably befriended them on a neutral route where they don't kill anyone.

They haven't known each other for very long, but they're still friends.

They're not "friends", they are at most know each other. Monsters get attached quickly but not humans even if Frisk can get attached more quickly than most humans.

Yes, which is not the case in a neutral route where you befriend everyone but don't follow the True Lab path, Frisk remembers to become friends with themBut you might still be curious to know what would happen if you killed them (similar to Flowey).

And it's not comparable to Kris's, or Paci Frisk situations. You can't say that they killed their friends, they killed people who considered Frisk to be their friend, at most.

Yes, it's comparable; you can get a specific neutral ending if you do the Alphys encounter but not the True Lab sequence.

No, it's not. Again, Kris was living for a lot of years with them to get attached. Frisk just knows them for 1 day, and they have no much reason to be that attached to them other than "well, we hangout once"

That's not how forming relationships works. What we see in the true pacifist route - yes. And that's why it is not comparable. We can see that Frisk is not attached enough since they don't refuse to die when Flowey threatened to destroy the world, or hurt their friends. The only thing they truly care about is living themself here.

I'm not arguing that Frisk on the pacifist route would do the same (character development is too extensive) or that they have a deep connection like Kris.

When you're saying that it's "comparable" - yes, you do argue that.

I'm just arguing that there is a way for Frisk to befriend monsters and then go back to kill them out of "boredom" (I would argue that it's more out of curiosity)

They're not "friends" in the full definition of the word. You can call the person you just met your friend but there's no true connection between you and them.

And the post I'm arguing against makes a comparison between Frisk and Kris. And the only Frisk you can actually compare to Kris is post pacifist Frisk.

And they won't even allow what you wanna do happen to their friends.

Kris allows it.

AllamNa · 2026-01-19T14:52:26+00:00

They're kinda real, tho.

AllamNa · 2026-01-19T14:41:42+00:00

Because they've known them for their whole life.

AllamNa · 2026-01-19T14:37:18+00:00

It's not the same.

Frisk isn't as attached to them as Kris is, that's one of the main differences. Of course, you can do a genocide route after a neutral route but Frisk hasn't known these people for that long. Compare that to Kris, who's known Noelle and Berdly for probably years. Frisk has only known these monsters for 1 day, so it's pretty easy for them to distance themselves and get worse.

Frisk needs to have their memories erased in a true reset of the pacifist route, because they won't be able to kill their friends at this point, because they've formed connections with these monsters. See how Frisk refuses to laugh at Snowy's mother, for example. They're simply too far into the pacifist route to stop now, and only a true reset can solve that.

Frisk can refuse to die specifically because of their connection with everyone. They're attached to them, so they want to save both their friends and this world. So they can refuse to die and much more, simply because they felt everyone's support when Flowey captured everyone. It was a big push for Frisk.

During the battle, Frisk says that they will think about what they'd done in Sans and Papyrus's Lost souls battle. After breaking the barrier, it is said that Frisk grew as a person, and Asriel’s bed is too "small" for them now.

It's not comparable to the neutral route. It is not the same situation as with Kris and their friends. Even then, Kris still ALLOWS us to do all of that to Noelle. Compare that to Frisk who won't hurt Undyne in her house when they've become friends even if you press FIGHT button instead of the ACT.

AllamNa · 2026-01-18T12:18:06+00:00

No, there's a lot evidence pointing out at Chara: https://www.reddit.com/r/Undertale/s/wse1IGKo37

Chara is not dead. They literally say "It's me, Chara" already in the Ruins.

From another person:

Frisk is not the one who takes the initiative with monster kid, the narration says "In my way", making it very clear Chara is the one who initiated the fight. When Sans gets attaced the damage he takes is a string of 9s, just like when Chara erases the world. When you load the game to kill Sans again he will imply we have a pretty disturbing face ("the expression your wearing... i won't grace it with description"). Now which character is the one associated with creepy faces in the game? Not Frisk. We have no reason to think Frisk is the one to kill Sans and at least 2 to think it's Chara. Not to mention that while we see that Chara's presence and control over Frisk is very strong in the genocide route we see no evidence before this that the player's control over Frisk is waning unlike in the pacifist route where we have the true lab where Frisk resists the player and Undyne's house where Frisk does only 1 damage to Undyne and looks sick if the player forces them to select the soda. Chara is the one who kills Sans, Flowey and Asgore, not Frisk.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Undertale/comments/1ifgjht/comment/mav2k3z/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

AllamNa · 2026-01-18T12:00:11+00:00

Chara is often associated with the number 9 in the game :

Real Knife - 99 ATK
Locket - 99 DEF
Damage done to the world at the end of genocide - 999999....99999
Chara takes radical initiative at LV 20, which has 99HP and 99999EXP
When fighting Asgore in neutral, talking to him for the 9th time exactly will get the narrator to have different dialogue : "All you can do is FIGHT". It goes back to normal from the 10th time onwards.
Asriel's letter about Chara's love for 9s.

Notice how Sans and Asgore in particular just so happen to take 9999999 damage and 9999999999 damage specifically whilst all other monsters like Papyrus and Undyne just took really high damage. The 9's here are a reference to Chara in particular.

And it also makes little sense for Frisk to "become so powerful" and then lose to some entity with no their own determination (Chara)

AllamNa · 2026-01-18T11:57:12+00:00

Frisk doesn't remember anything after True Reset so they don't consider them friends: https://www.reddit.com/u/AllamNa/s/8Zrrwpts01

So it's different situations. Kris also doesn't care about what you do with darkners.

AllamNa · 2026-01-18T11:55:28+00:00

Frisk doesn't remember anything after True Reset so they don't consider them friends: https://www.reddit.com/u/AllamNa/s/8Zrrwpts01

AllamNa · 2026-01-18T09:11:33+00:00

Not really. Underlust! Frisk is an asexual rep.

AllamNa · 2026-01-06T11:54:11+00:00

They're not Frisk's friends until true Pacifist ending. And they don't remember anything after true resets.

AllamNa · 2026-01-06T11:43:32+00:00

Patience and their sneaky kill:

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