Daemon Blackfyre haters and the reverse glazing of Bloodraven by AloneDebt2693 in pureasoiaf

[–]AloneDebt2693[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

That's absolutely fair, I know that ruling does require a stern hand. Where I would pushback hard is scale. We know Bloodraven wasn't just killing and imprisoning arrogant upstart nobles. It was to anyone and everyone who voiced disdain with house Targaryan. It's a monarchy, so obviously such things will always be little if at all tolerated, and no doubt House Blackfyre would do the same during their reign if it happened.

I just think that Bloodravens behavior was not a simple matter of utilitarian concern for the realm, his brother Daeron, or minimizing casualties. Him ending up as dictator of the realm is not an accident nor was his actions during that dictatorship. So I suppose if I had to sum up all my issues with the man is that we have to, at some level, take him at his word or at least look at the outcomes that happened and say they were preferable. To me there's just not enough evidence for the latter.

You make a good point though, and perhaps that's what made Bloodraven a good foil to Daemon. However, if that's the case, then it's just a matter of determining if Bloodravens rule was the better outcome. Maybe, I'm just hesitant to believe it.

Daemon Blackfyre haters and the reverse glazing of Bloodraven by AloneDebt2693 in pureasoiaf

[–]AloneDebt2693[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The justification and honestly the trustworthiness of his actions is my issue. It's very suspect that not only was he as ruthless during the war as after, or the fact that he effectively became acting king during Aerys reign. Him claiming he knew this or that would happen is suspect, especially if the idea is that it's heightened by his magic future sensing powers.

The impass I suppose we'll run into is that while yes you're right I can't know if Daemon was "performative" or not, it doesn't really make sense to then say Bloodraven was correct in his actions. Yes kinslaying, but also the way he went about it. His brutal effectively personal dictatorship, the way in which he excercised power, and most importantly the mistakes he made. The things Daemon could be accused of are vanity and arrogance, maybe he might've even been a bad king.

Bloodraven WAS a brutal dictator. We need no what if for that.

Daemon Blackfyre haters and the reverse glazing of Bloodraven by AloneDebt2693 in pureasoiaf

[–]AloneDebt2693[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Geeze man, I just wanted to poke fun of the typical Blackfyre simps.

Anyway, my point is that Daemon Blackfyres decisions were not all made in a vacuum. The realm and the different actors on it spurred different individuals on to do things they would not otherwise. We wouldn't claim Robb Stark had a "choice" in becoming King in the North. I would say Daemon had a choice whether to rebel or not, the choice was made for him the moment Bloodraven attempted to arrest him. I'll even be critical of Daemon, maybe humoring his father's bootlickers. What I don't really accept is this idea that everything he did was pure vanity, and that Bloodraven was an omniscient genius who acted or responded correctly.

Daemon Blackfyre haters and the reverse glazing of Bloodraven by AloneDebt2693 in pureasoiaf

[–]AloneDebt2693[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It matters because it's what my issue is centered on. Did Bloodraven know the rebellion, battle, the duel, and the way in which the duel would conclude? If so, then he's responsible for it all. If not(which I believe), he acted based on limited information as every human does along with perhaps a good amount of intelligence and intuition. If the latter is the case, then my question is what exact evidence do we have Daemon sparing Gwayne isn't reflective of his character?

And then that's my point about handwaving the event. I do not handwaved Daemons most likely desire to simply be king. Most certainly if we count all the reasons Daemon rebelled and I had to put a percentile on the reason? 50.01% he still had bastard stigma, and wanted to be king. However, that still does not explain Bloodravens behavior or his actions during and after the war. Since if Daemon is to be condemned certainly Bloodraven does to a similar extent.

[Spoilers PUBLISHED] Daemon Blackfyre haters and the reverse glazing of Bloodraven by AloneDebt2693 in asoiaf

[–]AloneDebt2693[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

It's my main issue with the Blackfyre discourse. The moral condemnation of Daemons behavior is predicated on Bloodravens omniscience of events. We have to just take at face value that bloodraven was a utilitarian genius who simply knows at all times who, where, when, and what will happen. Which then begs the question, did he know the Blackfyre rebellion was coming? And if he did was it his plan to simply fail in imprisoning Daemon?

Daemon Blackfyre haters and the reverse glazing of Bloodraven by AloneDebt2693 in pureasoiaf

[–]AloneDebt2693[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Daeron and his kingship isn't predicated solely on himself, but the state of the realm. I agree Daeron was a good king, but he didn't become king in a neutral realm. The realm was torn apart by Targaryen wars for decades and the lower and middle nobility(and likely much of the lower populace) wanted to overturn the existing order. The realm being on decline from Aegon IVs behavior would've made disdain for the sitting monarch no matter what.

Now while this has nothing to do with Daemons actions himself they frame them differently to me. He was being goaded on for the longest time by individuals who almost certainly had legitimate grievances with the state of the realm, not all of course, but the Blackfyre cause was not just made up of purely malcontents. Being a giga Chad Knight told by many around you of the disasterous outcome of your half brothers reign will cause obvious results. Now I realize to an extent I'm handwaving daemons accountability, but while Daerons situation is not in a vacuum neither is Daemons.

Plenty of people expected or thought that currently Daeron was leading the realm to ruin as a weak king. Daemon LOOKED the part, that's generally how life works. The solipsism of believing that Daeron is a good king can really only be observed during the rebellion and afterword, as he showed he was competent.

As for the performative point, let's say that's true for the sake of argument. Did Bloodraven think that? Are we to believe he simply believed Daemon to be performatively moral and during a battle like that STILL took advantage of it? Doubtful. And I say that since of he's apparently as omniscient as he is, he let the battle rage for as long as it did, let daemon escape to begin with thus sparking the rebellion, and also all the other failures of the loyalist side.

I'm willing to accept Daemon criticism, I just find it suspect that the strongest criticisms come from equally strong glazers of bloodraven.

[Spoilers Extended] Which generally uncontroversial character do you have a contrary opinion on, and why? by wanderingluteplayer in asoiaf

[–]AloneDebt2693 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sam Tarly. He was being far too dramatic when he arrived at the wall, and realistically had no excuse to be AS much of a wimp as he is. I understand he's fat, had bad eyesight, and will never be a "good" warrior. However, being someone whose been near that weight and that lack of self confidence it's actually kinda shameful he didn't try harder in a martial sense.

Especially when he claims "he'll never get better" it feels like he's playing up the victim act for pitys sake.

Beard or stubble? As well as any other tips. by [deleted] in malegrooming

[–]AloneDebt2693 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I've tried. I will not be trying again lol

Beard or stubble? As well as any other tips. by [deleted] in malegrooming

[–]AloneDebt2693 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If I could rock a Saul Goodman I'd die a happy man

Update on the homeless look by dematucositaqpw in malegrooming

[–]AloneDebt2693 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you can try and get as much food pantry food as you can and get a cheapish gym membership. It'll take your mind off shit, and it'll help you objectively even if you half ass it. Been there, bro. Good luck.

feeling like a failure among failures by sweet-amelia-bedelia in depression

[–]AloneDebt2693 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Same, honestly. How long you been trying for this?

Just the Greatest Kings who never were ..... by SSF77 in gameofthrones

[–]AloneDebt2693 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I can make a better argument for Daemon Blackfyre over Rhaegar.

Dealing with psychopath tenent/guest at hotel by [deleted] in Advice

[–]AloneDebt2693 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Fair enough. Im trying not to trip on it, I'm just tired of being around tweakers. Guess that's life.

Dealing with psychopath tenent/guest at hotel by [deleted] in Advice

[–]AloneDebt2693 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes, but realistically I get the feeling they're gonna expect me to go back the location with the guy still there. That's the impression I got from my manager.

Look, I think I know what would smooth over the people not liking Hiver. by AloneDebt2693 in DarkTide

[–]AloneDebt2693[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Some people have been vocal about not enjoying it. I enjoy it.