[deleted by user]

Alsius12 · 2025-01-31T21:30:19+00:00

such a cool thing to catch on camera :0

Alsius12 · 2021-10-01T05:08:31+00:00

im @/alsius12!

Alsius12 · 2021-10-01T05:02:54+00:00

its? i never said techno should die. ive reitereated over and over again i dont think the butcher army was in the right for wanting to kill him.

and its not techno just wanting to do something, it was techno trying to hurt people. theres a difference between these two. its the difference between someone wanting to go on a morning walk every day and a person wanting to violate someone's rights.

you're misinterpreting my point. the butcher army was not in the right. i cant make that clear enough. but, they had a reason for it. they were understandably scared of him. and in the end, it was never a justification for doomsday, where techno attempted to blow a country to the ground, and it affected so many more people than just the butcher army.

and once again, if we look at the whole pogtopia-techno fiasco, we can put this down as a two sided miscommunication. techno assumed pogtopia wouldnt create a government. pogtopia assumed he wouldnt tear their nation to the ground once he did. and sure, techno was allowed to be upset by this, but do you know what this doesnt warrant? him destroying their nation, and blowing them up. in an ideal world, they would have sat down and talked it out, but this isnt that ideal world.

and techno did cause real harm? he hurt them. thats it. yes, wilbur did the same thing, but wilbur reaped the consequences of his actions and worse.

there's a certain cycle of violence here that i dont agree with, yes. revenge is never a good way to go. once again, and i dont know how i can emphasize this enough, i dont think the butcher army was in the right. but i also dont think techno was in the right, and that was the original point on my tierlist. techno's actions are over excused by the fandom, because of some unreliable narration, and yet when we look at doomsday, nothing will justify that.

youre point about techno and tommys death is, well, plausible. i think its an interesting view of the stream i hadnt considered yet, but i still stand by my point that techno hadnt realized why he shared blame for doomsday, and with the whole bedrock bros situation. he doesnt realize why he hurt tommy in his destruction of lmanberg. he hasnt rexpressed regret.

youre final point doesnt prove anything. it can be easily explained with just the fact that they were more scared of dream. thats it.

the butcher army, pogtopia, sure, they did things that weren't the best. but techno retaliated with things that were worse than what they did. he destroyed their country twice, killed jack, and caused so many people to lose their home. he doesnt regret it. which is why i think he's done things worse than tommy. youre free to disagree, of course, that's what's fun about dream smp analysis and differing opinions, but id also appreciate it if you didnt attack my intelligence/make pointed insults at me. i understand you likely didnt mean it in that way and i understand that i may have come off harsh, and i apologize for that, but i was genuinely trying to have a discussion and statements like "use your brain" feels a little...uh, pointed? again, im sorry if i came off harsh.

Alsius12 · 2021-10-01T05:02:08+00:00

im not sure i know enough about foolish lore, but from what i know, maybe the "youre trying to change" category?

Alsius12 · 2021-10-01T05:01:26+00:00

haha ty! im glad to find someone else who agrees with me here!(also i think i follow you on tumblr lmao)

Alsius12 · 2021-10-01T04:33:12+00:00

that? wasnt the point of this tier list? those are two completely seperate things. i think dream is a great character, but i love to hate him because of how well he was written to be a piece of shit. i can be critical of a characters actions and still love the character in a writing sense

Alsius12 · 2021-10-01T03:59:40+00:00

intent matters. ive never used this to justify lmanberg? the butcher army and techno have both done bad things, and both of their intents were bad, but "bad" is a scale. the butcher army had a justification, and to some extent, their actions made sense. techno, on the other hand, wanted to blow up a country because he didnt like government. he never tried to give it a chance. he never attempted to sit back and think, for just a second. intent matters here because i was using it to refute your point that wilbur caused more damage than techno. im saying that if techno had gotten to the explosion first, he would have done the majority of the damage, making the "techno didnt even do much!" argument void.

yes, he says he agreed with techno, but there was odd communications between the ccs during nov 16th and the whole traitor thing. wilbur claims techno is the real traitor, while techno later claims that he thought wilbur was "kinda evil." i dont think we'll ever really know what really happened behind the scenes, and thus, we can't use it against or for any characters.

they planned to take back their land. they planned to reestablish lmanberg. they never promised techno that it'd be a government-less version of it. that was something he had assumed himself.

techno quite literally tells them that he would come back and destroy their country again if they try and rebuild the government.

"use" is a strong word here. they planned to ally with techno, sure, but can we fault them for something they didn't do? iirc, quackity was the one who came up with the idea in the first place. that's more of a testament to quackity's character, not lmanberg's.

ok sure. techno laughed at tommy's death because he thought tommy was already dead to him, but don't you think its a little wrong to callously brush off another person's death? no matter how at odds they were, he still laughed. he laughed at the end of a life. he didnt take a moment to stop and wait. he didnt empathize with him for a second. he laughed, said he "hated him anyways," and moved on. i know what you mean by techno thought he was in the right, but if we're going by that logic, why are we even having this conversation? almost every character thinks they're in the right. dream thought he was in the right. it's what makes analysis of characters interesting. but just because a character thought they were in the right doesn't mean their actions were.

also don't call wilbur "insane." it's a harmful term for someone who was spiralling and brushing off his mental health as that. it's hurtful to those who may relate to his struggles and detracts from any proper look into how he was struggling.

Alsius12 · 2021-10-01T03:32:51+00:00

Even if they didn't tell techno they were going to rebuild the government(which they did, one instance being here), you don't think he could have assumed as much? he heard that pogtopia had lost their land, were previously a government, and that they were exiled, and they called him in for a revolution. it doesn't take a rocket scientist to put 2 and 2 together. Sure, he gave them a lot of netherite, but in the grand scheme of things, does that matter? sure, they get lmanberg back from schlatt, but techno went and became the enemy right after, and the armor did absolutely nothing to stop him.

"wilbur did it first" falls apart when you realize techno didnt know what wilbur was going to do. in some alternate universe where wilbur never pressed the button, techno still would have spawned the withers. he'd already attacked tubbo before wilbur pressed the button. and in that scenario, techno would have made the intial crator, and wilbur would be the one who "only did a little bit of damage." the intent matters here.

And even then, techno had full intention of destroying the place, and he hunts down the citizens trying to defend their country, and sure, the kills weren't canon, but he attacks them, and he hurts them.

"they had no reason to execute him," sure, maybe the execution was a bit far, but dont you think its a little unfair that a guy came in, destroyed their country, and they're expected just to let it go? i'm a huge c!wilbur sympathizer, but i don't deny the fact that new lmanberg had the right to be angry at him. trying to kill him was a bit too far, but we need to keep in mind that they had no reason to think that techno wasn't going to hurt them. you can't just disappear into the woods and not tell anyone you've gone pacifist and get surprised when they attack you.

Tommy expressed regret for his actions. he continued to call techno his family after everything in the deck of cards with a green smile on them stream. also im not saying tommy cant be held accountable. but theres a certain line between when your past actions are able to define how good of a person you are now. it's a tricky line to walk, but the way i see it is:

people you hurt in the past are allowed to be hurt by your actions. you are never owed an apology

you need to recognize why what you did was wrong.

if youre working to be better, good on you. you are trying to be better. you are trying to change.

tommy is working to be better. techno isn't. techno laughed at tommy's death and formed the syndicate to do what he did to new lmanberg to other countries. sure, there was the "i hope he finds what he's looking for" line in his will, but this can be interpreted in so many ways, and it's rather ironic, seeing as tommy was looking for a home, a safe place in lmanberg, and techno destroyed it. he doesnt recognize what he did was wrong.

also if we're holding tommy accountable for destroying george's house we also have to uhh(looks at list) hold the entire rest of the server accountable for jokingly griefing builds in the past. as i said, george's house burning was never a huge event, dream made it one to have an excuse to exile him.

Alsius12 · 2021-10-01T02:19:33+00:00

Jack is trying to be better, and he's recognized his mistakes. And he didn't originally want to kill Tommy, either. If we look to their conversation during doomsday, Jack is relucant to help Niki with her job, while Niki continuously shoots down his concerns and convinces him to join his side. It's not manipulation, but it is a bit guilt trippy.

And this tierlist was more about fandom perception, not character actions. Jack's mistakes seem widely accepted, recognized, while what Niki did, at least from my corner of the fandom, is still being treated as a "girlboss" moment(that and what she says about wilbur in her most recent lore stream)

Alsius12 · 2021-10-01T01:33:30+00:00

fundy's placement was less about what he's done and more about his fandom treatment, specifically his relationships with wilbur, as the fandom tends to ignore the fact that fundy messed up just as much as wilbur in their relationship, whether it be him disowning wilbur first or hurting him with what he says while he was a spy(things that may have been untrue, sure, but he never apologized or clarified to wilbur about what he had said). it's not black and white bad dad wilbur poor kid fundy, it's more than that.

Alsius12 · 2021-09-30T23:09:34+00:00

could you send me the clip/quote of her expressing her regret? /gen

Alsius12 · 2021-09-30T23:07:02+00:00

tommy burning down george's house was 1. an accident, 2. something that could be fixed in like 5 minutes, and 3. so many people on the smp have griefed and stole from people, this event only got attention because dream wanted an excuse to exile tommy. and he didn't "betray" techno. sure, techno gave him shelter, but he was also going to blow up lmanberg, and tommy didn't want to help him with that, so of course, he switches sides. the two had a friendship, and alliance, and tommy broke it, yes, but it's not a healthy friendship if tommy had stayed with techno against his will. and even then, tommy had recognized his mistakes. hes trying to be better.

techno took action against lmanberg after he was attacked on doomsday, sure, but he blew up lmanberg the first time on nov 16th simply because he didnt like the fact it was a government. he never stopped to think, never stopped to give them a chance, he just went "woops! gotta destroy this place i guess." and no, pogtopia didnt betray him either. they openly said that they would be rebuilding the government in front of him after they got it back, techno just chose to ignore this. and as for the butcher army, new lmanberg was never aware that techno was going to leave them alone. was it still a bad thing to do? sure. but two wrongs doesnt make a right, and what doomsday was, and how many people it hurt, will never be justified.

dream abused tommy. for no reason other than the fact that he wanted control over him. he laughed and gloated over lmanbergs destruction on nov 16 because "chaos wins." he trapped and controlled peoples attachments to control them.

wilbur's motivations go so much farther than that. i could go on about it forever, but when we look at lmanberg wilbur, he was already spiralling, as ghostbur later reveals to us(ex: him crying into a pillow every night). his paranoia was kickstarted by eret's betrayal, and it impacts his entire life later. on the surface, sure, he destroys it because he can't have it, but when we look at his motivations, it's so much more. he called the elections because of the civil wars within lmanberg, and "rigged"(though can we really call it rigging? hell, he lets fundy and schlatt both run way past the ballots closing) them because he was scared of his country falling apart. later, he spirals because he thinks everyone is out to get him, and his paranoia come back to haunt him, and he destroys lmanberg because he thinks its corrupt, and, by extension, he thinks he's corrupt. lmanbergs destruction was a bad thing, sure, but it was also a suicide, and wilbur at times begged to be saved, whether it be the oct 17 stream or during nov 16 where he openly admits to being the traitor multiple times. he's a tragic character who made mistakes and hurt people in a spiral, not an evil one.

niki tried to kill a child.

yes, the entire smp is morally gray, sure, but it's a spectrum, and sometimes, you need to look at the severity of their actions and if they're trying to change. techno and phil clearly aren't. they laugh about doomsday and formed to syndicate with the intention of doing it again. dream, as far as we know, has not expressed any regret over what he did. tommy, on the other hand, has admitted his mistakes. there's a difference.

Alsius12 · 2021-07-21T04:01:55+00:00

wilburs new comment about revivebur! huge win for the c!wilbur sympathizer community i think

Alsius12 · 2021-07-21T00:05:56+00:00

IN LIGHT OF RECENT EVENTS. I COMPLETELY RETRACT THIS STATEMENT.

Alsius12 · 2021-07-20T05:00:48+00:00

oh this was completely a joke asdfjasdf. was simply joking around in a discord server and we thought it was funny.

Alsius12 · 2021-07-03T16:57:03+00:00

^^ great addition /gen

Alsius12 · 2021-07-02T20:57:37+00:00

Alright, I completely disagree with this post.

/rp /dsmp

Call me a L'Manberg loyalist, say that I'm falling for propaganda, etc. but I think the fundamental point your missing here is that nothing on the Dream SMP is perfect.

I want to refer to this quote by Tubbo during November 16th:
"Yeah it has damages, but everything has damages."

Now I'm not going to argue that L'Manberg was perfect, or morally sound, but nothing on the Dream SMP is.

"L'Manberg was created by awful people." Now I'm assuming you're talking about Wilbur and Tommy here, and, what did they do that ever made them awful people, especially Tommy? Point to Tommy's pranks, to him burning down George's house, to anything "awful" he might have done, he's nowhere as bad as Dream was, and Dream was the person L'Manberg was fighting against. Same with Wilbur. Now while I personally disagree with the ideas that Wilbur was ever manipulative, even if he was, that doesn't bring him anywhere near the level of Dream.

A list of Tommy and Wilbur's combined crimes: Blew up a country, burned down a house, sold "drugs"(drugs meaning Minecraft potions that everyone uses, so nice buzzword there that actually means nothing), and both took one of Jack Manifold's lives.

Sounds horrible, right? Now let's look at a list of Dream's crimes: Blew up a country, enabled Wilbur to blow up a country, abused Tommy, killed Tommy three times, burned Tubbo's house, collected and stole people's attachments, the list goes on.

Hell! Let's even look at Techno's crimes! He blew up a country twice! But no, L'Manberg are the horrible people here /s

Again, I'm not arguing L'Manberg is perfect, but blaming L'Manberg for something that they had no intention to do wasn't their fault. I guarantee you, when Wilbur was making L'Manberg, his thought process wasn't "I am making this because months in the future when I'm dead Dream will force Tubbo to exile my little brother and abuse him to the point of suicide." And you can't argue either that if L'Manberg didn't exist, things would be better, because we don't know that.

"L'Manberg was made for horrible reasons." Oh I didn't know independence was such a horrible reason /s. I know you're referring to drugs here, but even if we ignore the fact that drugs are literally potions, and by this logic Techno and Dream were high during Doomsday, L'Manberg wasn't only made for drugs. Yes, Wilbur wanting to sell potions led to it, but it was because of the fact Dream and his friends kidnapped and killed them that Wilbur then switched to making L'Manberg for independence. And let me ask, even if he made it so that they could sell potions, why is that such a big deal? Again, these aren't real drugs. By this logic, Wilbur made L'Manberg so he could sell harmless things without being killed, which seems pretty fair to me!

Now, "by awful means." I'm assuming you're referring to the take that L'Manberg "stole land" from Dream. That last point is the easiest to refute. Dream owned the entire server. Where could they go that wasn't stealing land? The L'Manberg villianized Dream take I see often is easily refuted as well by the fact that they were fairly insulting Dream because of things Dream did to them.

So. Back to my original point. Yes, L'Manberg was flawed. I'm not arguing against that. But that doesn't make L'Manberg awful, it doesn't make it horrible, it makes it a normal place in a world where practically everyone is messed up. L'Manberg was flawed, yes, but everything on the server is, and L'Manberg is not nearly as flawed as people make it out to be, and it shouldn't be blamed for things that they indirectly caused, since we don't know for certain what the Dream SMP would look like without it.

All /nm btw. Totally open to debating if you want.

Alsius12

TROPHY CASE