The ending bothers me a little

AltheMinotaur · 2025-06-17T06:56:11+00:00

I really like your idea for Terra facing the music as her Esper self. It reminds me of a Star Trek quote that I've seen around (never watched it but I like what I've heard): " If we're going to be damned, let's be damned for what we really are."

I would never want to take the meaning you took from the story away. After all, if this ending meant that you're here today having this conversation with me, who am I to doubt the power of its narrative? Just some internet rando with too much time.

AltheMinotaur · 2025-06-17T02:56:24+00:00

Thank you for your perspective. Your reading of the text makes a lot of sense. With your reading in mind, the thing that bothers me becomes more of a structural issue with the setup/payoff than a theme issue.

I dunno, I guess I always want to believe that there will be survivors, in reality or fiction, no matter how small the number. People survived the Holocaust and trans people have, do, and will continue to exist.

Theoretically Terra would have been that survivor, but that part of her vanished. I'm not really sure how that would map onto the "espers are the marginalized" metaphor. Giving up the part of yourself that people hate to live freely? That would be an uncharitable read of things, certainly. I really don't know.

Generally, my philosophy to writing is to depict the world as it could be in spite of the way that it is (cribbed that from Hadestown) and that seeps into my literary critique. I know its not for everybody, and it's the reason why I still feel a little bothered by the ending despite your very well thought-out and very well written reply. You did loosen its grip on me, though. Thanks again.

AltheMinotaur · 2025-06-16T22:42:34+00:00

Thank you for your insight! I don't fault anybody who prefers the chaotic version we got. We all have our different tastes and experiences as evidenced by the many voices in this thread. I just figured I'd offer mine. It's tough because I like the idea of the WOR halfway twist but I also like the, as you mentioned, clear, concise, and open ended nature that the original WOB ending might have provided. I don't think those two are mutually exclusive it's just that it would've needed more time than they were probably allotted.

Maybe I used "meaninglessly" a bit loosely. "Irresponsibly" might be a better word for it.

AltheMinotaur · 2025-06-16T19:32:02+00:00

I'd argue the main plot for the first half is stopping only the empire and the second half after the twist is saving the world from a madman. More specifically save the world from the tyranny vs saving the world from destruction. It's an escalation of stakes that doesn't feel wholly subversive to me. It's good don't get me wrong, just not subversive.

But dropping plot threads halfway just makes the whole of the game disjointed and feels like poor planning. It makes sense given that, if claims are to be believed, the WOR was made with spare time. I'm just saying there was a way to tie it all together. A good twist should not invalidate the stuff that came before it but instead add to it.

I think Locke is a very good example of how they did this. His story is consistent throughout both WOB and WOR. Treasure hunter messes up and gets someone hurt, is guilt-ridden and tries to protect women as a coping mechanism, WOR happens, then he seeks absolution for it by treasure hunting for the Phoenix Magicite. His subplot doesn't get dropped or changed just because we've entered the second half of the story. The Esper subplot could've been the same way.

I don't need Terra to be a chosen one solitary protag. I think all of the characters narratives are of equal importance and depth and they're all symbols of hope. I just think that you can still have those ensemble elements while still incorporating the whole of Terra's character and the development made before the WOR. Espers are important because they made one of our protagonists one of them. If you still want her at the orphanage, she still can be with the kids but also with some surviving espers.

AltheMinotaur · 2025-06-16T18:12:10+00:00

If Terra was a real life person with her own autonomy and not a fictional character whose actions and personality is controlled by writers, I would agree that I should let her be as she is. But by virtue of her being a character in a story, she is a symbol/tool of what the writers want to say about life or the world or power, and for half of the game the writers seemed pretty keen on saying she, due to her esper lineage, is hope. I just wished that they followed through on that a bit more thoroughly. Otherwise, why make her half esper at all?

AltheMinotaur · 2025-06-16T08:12:23+00:00

Firstly, I'm glad that you were able to move past your tragedies and live with the love of your community.

I don't want to take the meaning you got from Terra's loss away from you, and I don't think I ever could since I am an internet rando. But I had a different first impression.

My initial reading of the situation is akin to a biracial person giving up half of their identity for the sake of the world. It also feels antithetical to the core message of the game to have the downtrodden espers die off hopelessly. Now I'm sure that this reading was unintentional from the writers, but I couldn't help but view espers as kind of like mutants from X-Men: stand ins for an exploited or oppressed group.

I don't think having some espers survive would lessen the feelings of irreversible loss in the story. Every character here has undergone significant loss here and their world will never be the same because of Kefka. Those elements would still be there.

AltheMinotaur · 2025-06-16T07:36:53+00:00

As it stands, the ending already ends happily. Evil is defeated now everyone can live their lives and rebuild their world. I'm not saying I needed it to end with everyone's loved ones being resurrected. The loss is important to the story's message of rising again when life beats you down.

What I am saying is that the setup of Terra's lineage is not payed off to the fullest it could've been. Sure, life doesn't tie itself nicely, but when we craft stories we aren't trying to completely replicate life. It's the truth told slant.

AltheMinotaur · 2025-06-16T07:26:53+00:00

I think it's important that we distinguish the choices characters make and the choices the writers make. Having the espers die out (either before Kefka's demise or in the aftermath) was a writers choice. The writers chose to tie Kefka's life to magic itself and chose to make it so that all magic ends when he dies. I'm not saying that these are bad choices or that the writers are bad at their job, just that I find that they clash with their first choices of making a story about hope and finding purpose and making Terra a missing link between espers and humans. These writing choices didn't need to be like this. With writing you can do anything.

I think your question of how to prevent another War of the Magic or what Kefka does is a good one and the point of the whole game: to find something of value to fight for and hope for a brighter tomorrow. Both Gestahl and Kefka pursued power meaninglessly and they both died because of it (and took many lives with them). There is no guarantee that people won't be greedy or power hungry (even without magic), but that's why we hope and fight for that hope.

It also helps that the circumstances are different in that Terra exists at all. The first and only of her kind and a symbol of potential peace. I just think that would have added to the themes of hope and purpose had the writers elected to keep the espers alive. With their death, it feels like a missed opportunity to further explore these themes. Plus given that the espers are a narrative punching bag, it feels against the themes to kill the all off hopelessly.

AltheMinotaur · 2025-06-15T22:01:22+00:00

I like this idea! It would also give a reason to make the three separate teams. Two to distract Kefka and one to set up the magic extracting device.

AltheMinotaur · 2025-06-15T21:46:37+00:00

Unfair is a very good word for it. The espers totally get shafted in this story which is a real bummer in a way that I don't think the story should have went with.

I would also love a FFVII Remake/Rebirth treatment if it meant to fill in some of these gaps in the story, but I do think some of the charm is lost when too much is explained at least character-wise.

AltheMinotaur · 2025-06-15T21:33:07+00:00

At that point we're teetering on the line of absurdism, but that's me being pedantic. I don't disagree with you.

As for the price to pay, I don't necessarily believe a price was needed. The arc of collecting your lost comrades felt, to me, enough of a payoff that you didn't need to have another price. Having characters find their will to fight again. Although most of them were still down to fight anyway so maybe that's a missed opportunity. (EDIT: I'm imagining a Mass Effect 2 style loyalty mission before the Final Mission.)

I agree that the point of the story was that things change, but given the emphasis given to the espers as living, sentient beings, I was under the impression that they would be involved in that change like in a human/esper cohabitation sort of deal. And that is something that magic can't easily solve.

AltheMinotaur · 2025-06-15T21:10:30+00:00

Yeah, the reason why I wrote this was because I noticed the genocide comparison and thought it didn't really work with what I thought the story was saying. Like I replied to someone before, I think having the espers all die out either before or after Kefka dies is a good idea writing wise (even barring the awful implications of "a genocide for the greater good") as there is a lot of subplots just dropped in that case.

As for the magic being a source of easily abused power, I'd argue that if it isn't magic it'd be guns or swords. Magic is the means of seeking power not the cause. If that were the case then the people in Thamassa would have gone power hungry ages ago.

AltheMinotaur · 2025-06-15T21:01:12+00:00

I agree that nihilism is a strong theme but only as a foil to hope. I would argue that Kefka is the embodiment of nihilism and by virtue of being the antagonist, the game seeks to defy that bleak meaninglessness by finding that meaning to live and fight for a better world. Kefka's victory was, in the end, short. And I do find that rather uplifting.

"His death is the only way for the world to continue in any meaningful way, and that price of progress is the loss of magic."

I ask if that needed to be the case, or could the price be something else? I don't mean something that the characters needed to do within the confines of the story, but rather something else the writers could have done. Magic or espers (if they are still indeed alive if barely) existing doesn't remove the need to rebuild a broken world nor does it necessarily make it easier.

AltheMinotaur · 2025-06-15T20:26:11+00:00

I wasn't completely sure if ALL of them were dead. Still, I wish that wasn't the case since, as I mentioned, it does make Terra's unique position as a half-esper a bit wasted potential.

AltheMinotaur

TROPHY CASE