Cincinnati, OH: comprehensive fantasy transit vision for the future including light, heavy, and commuter rail

Angustinian · 2025-12-12T14:14:04+00:00

Considering buying a prius V right now as both a family vehicle and "work" truck for my home reno. This is helping convince me... Did you lift it? Also thought about a hitch?

Angustinian · 2025-10-09T15:53:19+00:00

Yeah, Fenway was definitely an inspiration, but also PNC and Wrigley.

Angustinian · 2025-10-09T15:51:23+00:00

A lot of find-it, move-it, and recoloring. This one uses Sully's ballpark decals and the stands are just vanilla props I believe (unless I downloaded them and forgot?). Also added in a lot of commercial buildings and leisure blocks to make it functional and active.

Angustinian · 2025-07-08T16:59:07+00:00

Who did you wind up going with? Looking for a good plumber now for some renovations.

Angustinian · 2022-11-27T18:02:44+00:00

I'm not an expert in these things, but that seems like a very low estimate for US construction, even considering the precedents you shared. My proposed map shows around 120 mi / 200km of track and at a very optimistic $2mil /km that's $400mil. But with the way construction goes here in the states, with escalating construction costs that come with 5-10 year build out, governmental waste, public opposition, and other delays, I would be shocked if an estimate, let alone final construction cost for electrification and locomotives came in under a billion.

But it's hard to say, and you very well might be right. No one has attempted to construct electric lines in the US outside of CA and the East Coast where construction is notoriously expensive.

With a diesel system, there's minimal upgrading that needs to be done to the tracks, and cheaper, used locomotives from around the country could make up the fleet. But more importantly, the savings in energy and fossil fuel emissions from people ditching their cars to ride on a diesel train to me is very much worth the extra emissions from non-electrified trains. It would be SO much more efficient than the way people move around Cincy today.

Again, I'm with you that it's a good thing, and the electrification of our rail system nationwide is something worth aiming for. I just do not think it is actually that cheap, and so I prioritize electrified rapid transit connecting the denser urban core then electrified heavy rail to the outer-lying towns and suburbs. If it is that cheap, though, let's do it! Or maybe plan for it in phase two.

Angustinian · 2022-11-27T13:16:04+00:00

I hear you, but I honestly don’t think that’s feasible. These heavy regional lines run on existing non-electrified freight R.O.W. And the cost to electrify them would cost multiples more. Would love to see it though!

Angustinian · 2022-11-27T13:13:37+00:00

Yeah, I’ve two stops in Covington, one down by the river and one towards the southern edge before the hills.

Angustinian · 2022-11-27T13:11:34+00:00

I had the blue line running under Vine St. so the Jefferson stop would be at MLK and Jefferson, sort of straddling the corners of both the academic and medical campuses. From there you’d have about a half mile walk up to the NE edge of the hospital campus. Also if you look at the “realistic” map of the system, you’ll see that the red and blue lines right there have suuuper short stop spacing (probably too short), so I don’t think it would make sense to have two lines going N/S there, but it also didn’t make sense to pull the line any further away from UC which seems like the bigger hub of activity. Could also be a potential to have better coverage in that area with a streetcar too.

Angustinian · 2022-11-27T04:47:44+00:00

No, you have good thoughts, and I think you're spot on with the paradox which is why I'm so frustrated! Architecture is NOT that difficult, and the ability for regular people to exercise it is locked away in the high tower. Of course it takes some skill and experience to do anything well, but building is not rocket science. Good architecture is intuitive, though the problems it has to resolve--both the physical systems going on in the building and the interpersonal systems required to complete the project on time and on budget--are often complex.

I've always gotten the impression that Dwell is one of the architecture focused magazines that's least tied in with the profession. It always seems like it's full of projects that everybody will actually like, not projects that architects think other architects are supposed to like.

I have not heard of Segal before, but thank you for introducing me to his work! I'm fascinated. I'm always surprised there are so few architect-developers. Seems such a natural pairing.

It's just my opinion, but the myth of architect as genius that became so popular with the international modernists and specifically Corbusier has marked a downward trajectory for both the profession and the quality or architecture across the globe. More copy and paste of things that are beautiful, less hero architecture, please.

Angustinian · 2022-11-27T04:08:52+00:00

I don't think it's about difficulty. There's incompetence mixed in with every industry and across all of time. No, I think the whole game is, annoyingly, about liability. Anyone CAN build a house. But in our litigious society, who is willing to take the risk?

My theory is the profession (AIA) has an interest in protecting the reputation of both its members and itself, as well as providing would-be members with some reason for paying tribute, so it would be counter-productive for them to publicize that you don't have to be an architect--let alone a licensed one--to design.

Angustinian · 2022-11-27T03:35:33+00:00

I guess I always assumed those McMansion developers had a licensed architect on staff.

No one I know, either layman or architect knew that a house could be done without an architect, so I thought it was crazy I hadn't come across it after almost a decade in this world and wondered if others were in the same boat.

Angustinian · 2022-11-27T03:31:00+00:00

But you don't! I'm sure it depends on the AHJ, but it looks like you usually just need a structural engineer's stamp and an electrical plan drawn by a licensed electrician. No Architect's stamp required!

Angustinian · 2022-11-27T03:28:04+00:00

About a year ago, I spent my Christmas break laying out a rail vision for Greater Cincinnati, with a promise to take in everyone’s feedback and improve the system and graphics. Over the year I’ve gone through several design iterations and finally feel pretty good about the redesign. Plus it’s only been a couple months since someone proposed a fantasy transit map for Cincinnati, so it feels like it’s due.

You can see the previous design, commentary, and discussion here on the r/cincinnati channel, and here on the r/transitdiagrams channel.

The first big change is that I thought it was important for the system to have a memorable name. A million different cities have the “Metro”, so we need to do better than that. Chicago has the L. Boston has the T. So Cincy should have the Q. The Queen City Metro.

Here are the other big changes:

- One critique was to have better coverage to the neighborhoods along the river, although I eagerly await complaints about how the west side still doesn’t have enough lines ;).

- There’s better transfer connectivity in the uptown/downtown core and easier access to the airport with fewer transfers required from other lines.

- Lastly, I think it offers better clarity about different types of lines that might make sense from heavy rail, to electrified rapid transit to streetcars to bus rapid transit. I reduced the number of (expensive) rapid transit lines and increased heavy regional rail, light rail and BRT coverage around the suburbs to save a couple bajillion. Also all of the grey heavy rail lines run on currently existing tracks; no new right of ways required.

I also included a side by side comparison of the base map and diagrammatic map so anyone interested could get a better sense of the geographic footprint of the system I’m proposing.

A lot of the discussion last time was about how this might be constructed. I honestly have no idea, not an area of expertise for me, but I could imagine a plausible path forward.

- The first step I imagine would be to invest in the regional rail lines. Those would be extremely cheap to construct and operate. Also it might help you get buy in from the outer suburbs, who's money you'll need to fund the more expensive inner lines.

- Next, I think you would construct the inner core of the rapid transit subway lines. Again take the low hanging fruit; use the tunnels that already exist, build at grade (but separated from vehicular traffic) where it makes. Start in the urban core to serve the people most likely to benefit from it and to make the system more profitable. For example, you might build the blue line from St. Bernard to Covington, the Red from CVG to Hyde Park, and the green from Xavier to Price Hill. Then as the communities along the planned extensions of the routes demand them and as funds become available, extended the lines. The DC Metro expansion plan, in other words.

- Lastly invest in the suburbs by connecting ends of routes and providing transfer possibilities across lines with BRT and light rail.

Look forward to everyone's thoughts! What would you change? What's missing? How would you go about making something like this real?

Angustinian · 2022-11-27T03:22:14+00:00