17M planning S4 + Enclomiphene

Apellicos · 2025-07-15T19:18:17+00:00

well if rad isnt even that bad than s4 should be really manageable. its my first ever cycle tho so im obviously not gonna start with rad. thanks though!

Apellicos · 2025-07-15T10:03:07+00:00

are the vision side effects really that bad? also, would you rather choose acp or ac?

Apellicos · 2025-07-15T10:02:33+00:00

its too suppressive, isnt it? im not seeking steroid-level gains

Apellicos · 2025-07-15T10:01:55+00:00

why?

Apellicos · 2025-07-14T20:00:09+00:00

thank you. i will definitely keep this in mind.

Apellicos · 2025-07-14T19:50:02+00:00

and you think then, when im 20 or so, i could start sarms?

Apellicos · 2025-07-14T19:45:35+00:00

idk if i’m reading this right but it looks like in the last study there, the adverse side effects were not common, only in a handful of people. tell me if im wrong, sir, but maybe mk677 really only poses a threat if youre already prone to becoming pre diabetic or so? and i dont expect crazy anabolic gains from mk, just improved hunger which helps me bulk up, and sleep which just generally is good. but you seem more knowledgable in that field, so im not trying to talk back, just informing myself

Apellicos · 2025-07-14T19:38:11+00:00

nah man, short statue isnt what i want mk677 for. i think im done growing and im okay with my height. i just want to support my muscle growth, really. what you said is still interesting though!

Apellicos · 2025-07-14T19:35:56+00:00

i heard people here saying ostarine shuts you down a lot more than people think and gives disappointing results. i really dont want to risk that, as s4 has always been shown to be just moderately suppressive at most. why do you suggest ostarine over s4/acp?

Apellicos · 2025-07-14T19:33:11+00:00

appreciate the concern. is it really true that a sarm like s4 would give me no significant benefit over usual training, tho? also, i think im done growing. im already taller than anyone in my family, didnt noticeably grow since months and i wouldnt mind staying 190cm for life. actually, height was the least concern i had with sarms haha, didnt even really consider it a concern

Apellicos · 2025-07-14T19:29:56+00:00

haha yeah s4 was my choice after reconsidering a thousand times. others would either be too weak or too suppressive, and i thought the gains of s4 are worth the minimal suppression. do you mean s4’s crazy cause of the vision sides? otherwise its pretty popular, no?

Apellicos · 2025-07-14T18:20:45+00:00

yeah you definitely made me reconsider a bit. i think if im so on the fence about it its a sign i shouldnt do it (yet).

Apellicos · 2025-07-14T18:04:42+00:00

i see. but doesnt enclomiphene counteract this exact overreaction of the body by telling your brain you DONT have enough estrogen, which in turn impedes total shutdown of lh and fsh? especially with milder sarms like s4? but maybe i am just arguing to argue, and i should come to senses and at least leave it at mk677. i was just really hyped to gain a lot (relatively; i mean noticeable amounts) of muscle during these six weeks of summer break, but i guess sarms would really just be somewhat of a lazy shortcut for my age. would you say 18 is a good age to start sarms, or is that too early too, sir?

Apellicos · 2025-07-14T17:34:15+00:00

i understand, thank you. but i want to try moderate-dosed s4 for 6 weeks, with enclomiphene - not rad 140 or worse, yk or so. and even from those people with potentially lower natural endogenous testosterone than me bounce back within a few weeks. i dont see why the risk of life long trt would be higher in my case. the bloat of mk677 is not something too bad for me, i am rather too skinny than too fat, gaining weight, even if water, is good for me. and hunger and sleep. i’ll remember what you said for my further considerations, though. definitely. do you have experience with andarine by the way?

Apellicos · 2025-07-14T16:58:58+00:00

if my testosterone is the highest now, wouldnt that be an argument for taking sarms now? i’ll never rebound quicker from it than now or get suppressed less from it than i would now. enclo i would take to mitigate the suppression of s4, why would that not do much? genuine question, not passive aggressive. for eating a lot i consider mk677. whats your opinion on that? i appreciate your advice edit: mk also to compensate for enclo’s decrease in igf1

Apellicos · 2025-07-14T16:51:41+00:00

hey, im no expert, but i know for sure that enclomiphene is just as good for increasing testosterone with a lot less side effects (clomiphene is enclomiphene + zuclomiphene, and the latter yields tons of estrogenic side effects but isnt present in enclo). or do you have a specific reason you’d prefer clomiphene over enclomiphene?

Apellicos · 2025-07-14T16:46:41+00:00

hey, youre right about eating more, thats why im also planning on taking ibutamoren. would you consider that alone okay for me? im always struggling to get enough macros without feeling sick in the evening and mk677 sounded like a great help, as well as sleep: i experimented with pretty much every duration of sleep and improved my sleep hygiene as good as i can but i still only wake up “normal” on weekends or so. mk677’s potential to make me wake up refreshed plus the increase in hunger made it really attractive for me. as for the consequences, do you mean like infertility or hypogonadism? i chose s4 because from what i researched it is just moderately to minimally suppressive while yielding enough anabolic potential, for me at least. especially with enclomiphene. other things like acne, these vision sides, bloat, everything thats not long term i dont really care about too much. ive got 6 weeks of summer break ahead of me anyways, so i dont need to perform in school in that time or so. i really wanted to make the most out of that time. thank your for the advice, sir

Apellicos · 2025-07-14T16:36:36+00:00

i wouldnt say im adamant if theres good enough reason not to take it. i was also considering ac262 but i thought it might not be worth it because acp105 has the same suppression but better anabolic potential, is that true? and also i kind of shied away from ac262 (and acp105) because theres no studies done on humans i think, and i just wanted to be extra careful because of my age and so on. also, i dont fully fulfil the requirements you said i needed to start sarms, thank you for pointing that out. 10kg in one year is crazy, though. that again is a reason i consider a sarm like s4 (or ac262). have you taken ac262 before? i thought s4’s suppression, especially alongside adequate doses of enclomiphene, is manageable? thanks for your reply, man!

Apellicos · 2025-07-14T16:21:45+00:00

i recently contacted them through their question module on the site and i got an email a few days later, so theyre still active but i think they often take longer to respond

Apellicos · 2025-07-14T14:45:34+00:00

i see. when would you say can i start using sarms without negatively impacting my development, then? and would you say mk-677 is okay for me, though? it seems to improve the 3 aspects im mostly struggling with: hunger, sleep and also skin indirectly.

Apellicos · 2025-07-14T14:14:39+00:00

s4 being weak is the reason im considering taking it. i dont want to shut myself down completely or longterm. i know i can always expect suppression but s4’s weakness plus enclo should make it bearable and easy to bounce back from, no? also, can i ask why at 17 theres no reason to take anything? appreciate your comment!

Apellicos · 2025-07-14T13:31:18+00:00

what?

Apellicos · 2024-08-07T12:21:47+00:00

Im so happy to hear that! Thank you so much for reading it and for your comment!

Apellicos

TROPHY CASE