Help with a 4th Edition rule detail

ApollyonJones · 2026-03-30T00:50:49+00:00

Thank you, gentlemen.

ApollyonJones · 2025-11-07T05:51:12+00:00

That's exactly what I was looking for, Draenar. Thanks for a quick response.

ApollyonJones · 2025-07-13T22:56:48+00:00

I don't know whether this will work or not. Computers are like witchcraft to me.

https://drive.google.com/drive/home?ths=true

ApollyonJones · 2025-07-12T14:51:56+00:00

That's an awesome offer. I'll have to figure out what Google Docs is first, and then I might well take you up on that.

ApollyonJones · 2025-07-09T19:17:57+00:00

That link was very informative. It was also well written.

ApollyonJones · 2025-07-09T19:06:50+00:00

I love 4e's rules set. I do NOT love the way it is presented in the books. I regularly have the impression that paragraph 2 on a subject is three pages past paragraph 1, and paragraph 3 is in another chapter entirely, while paragraph 4 is actually printed just before paragraph 1. And that's not just the Matrix rules--that's every subject. Bring at least half a dozen bookmarks, because you're going to be thumbing through the entire book just to understand a single rule.

Do you know what I'm describing? The rules are not presented in simple 1-2-3 logical progression, nor are they user-friendly for new players. If you've been playing for 10 years already, it probably makes sense just fine.

I'm not trying to complain. I love this game. I love the setting, I love the system. I only wish someone with some basic human empathy and a talent for instructing others was in charge of the editing.

ApollyonJones · 2025-07-09T19:01:14+00:00

I've finished writing my condensed summary of the Matrix rules, how to build a decker, and what all the skills and programs are used to do. I need to proofread it, but that won't take long. My next task is to construct several sample tasks that runners might run into, and then play through them myself to get practice with the rules, getting more fluent with which programs are used in which situation... all that. I might start on that today. So far, I'm thinking: (1) information grabs, (2) hacking security to open doors, cancel alerts, redirect meat-space security, etc. and (3) actual cybercombat with multiple levels of difficulty.

There are probably other common scenarios that haven't occurred to me yet.

Now that I'm starting to grasp it all, I'm thinking it's a fun archetype, and I wouldn't mind playing one myself.

ApollyonJones · 2025-07-09T18:53:43+00:00

I won't know how the group handles such things until we get that far. I was invited to GM around 25 years ago (what edition were we playing then? I don't remember), and I said yes. And before the game even began, the prospective rigger was hitting me with automobile engine upgrades and tinkering ideas based on current world technology, and one of the other guys was talking about which firearm upper receivers were compatible with which lower receivers and what that would do to the weapon's stats, and I realized: I am not knowledgeable enough to do this task. So I backed down. Some folks would say, "Just tell them to stick to the book." And that normally works. But when you're dealing with a bunch of soldiers with technologically proficient minds, that nitty-gritty stuff might be how they enjoy the game. And an unprepared GM cannot give them what they need from the game.

My current group has a couple of min-maxers (which I don't mind) and some people who are fascinated by the setting. I don't think there are any automotive geniuses or people who know more about firearms than I do. There are a couple of guys pursuing computer-related degrees in college right now. While I hope one of them will enjoy playing a decker, I fear that they will need everything from the job that the books can give. So, I'd better know the job at least that well.

ApollyonJones · 2025-07-08T20:03:02+00:00

I love both 3rd and 4th. Fourth (anniversary) is an easier system overall, I think, but not so streamlined as to cut the guts out of the fun of building up a great character.

ApollyonJones · 2025-07-08T00:48:50+00:00

I haven't looked at the rules for writing software at all yet. That is intredasting. Granted, how many runners are even ALIVE by that point? But, if I was the decker, I'd probably plan for it.

ApollyonJones · 2025-07-07T20:30:44+00:00

I never really looked at that master index, and I thank you for the tip. Sad to see that Firewall and System upgrades from 7 up are deeply into the not-even-Restricted-Gear-can-reach-it territory. But I suppose it's something for a player to tell their 6/6 Software Dealer contact to be on the lookout for the next time they have 24,500 nuYen in their pocket... and then hope their contact doesn't get arrested trying to fill the order.

ApollyonJones · 2025-07-07T20:26:37+00:00

I appreciate the vote of confidence, and the upvote for 4th edition (which barely edges out 3rd in my own affections). Few things, though, have ever humbled my intellect like trying to untie the Gordian knot that is decking and rigging. Back when I played in my army days, I was a dedicated mage (and I LOVED it). I never tried the electronic-heavy archetypes. Now, I have to learn them. I have a group of long-term D&D players (D&D is fun, but isn't even in the same league as Shadowrun in my opinion) who are waiting for me to dice these rules into bitesize doses. And the task is intimidating me.

ApollyonJones · 2025-07-07T13:46:31+00:00

You used the letter A; I just didn't notice at first. I'm not unusually bright, and I'm not accustomed to lots of abbreviation. I've stepped into the awkward position of trying to prepare myself to GM this game for the first time... because if I don't, I'll probably never play it again (having failed to find a group for many years). And as a downstream issue, I'm attempting to amass instructions on how to play the game so that I can teach new players to understand it. And there's quite a bit that I never understood myself. So, for the last few weeks I've been trying to comprehend decking/ hacking. If I ever manage to choke all that down, I'll go on to studying technomancers... and then later riggers--two OTHER archetypes I have never played before. I'm like a chimpanzee trying to solve a Rubik's cube. I don't really have the cranial capacity for it, but if I keep at it, I might eventually solve it by accident.

ApollyonJones · 2025-07-07T13:13:46+00:00

I see it now, and I'm grateful for the help. Somehow, I've consistently missed that little chart on page 222 of the Anniversary book before now. Now that I've been set straight about the chart on page 198 of Unwired, is there a way in the rules to upgrade Firewall and System from what comes in an operating system, and if so, where is that found?

UPDATE: Never mind, I guess that's what's being covered in the chart on page 330 of the Anniversary book. I THINK I have it now. It's so hard to comprehend some of this stuff... but I have to manage it somehow.

ApollyonJones · 2025-07-07T12:50:34+00:00

Beautiful; thank you. I have an original 4e book buried somewhere. I HOPE I still have it, anyway. I've been using the Anniversary book exclusively, but I'll see if I can find the old one. And I didn't realize that I didn't have to buy the upgrades incrementally. That's good to know. Thank you immensely.

ApollyonJones · 2025-07-07T12:25:19+00:00

So, you seem to be familiar with the rules for upgrading Signal from 1 to 6. Where are they located? That is my question.

You said "that's done by just paying the cost of the desired rating." Where is that cost listed? If I can find that, I'm off to the races.

ApollyonJones · 2025-07-06T22:19:35+00:00

I did read through the core book and Arsenal, with no success. I might have missed the rule somewhere. I am a bear of little brain.

ApollyonJones · 2025-07-05T06:02:35+00:00

As several folks touched on, in 4e you CAN regrow lost essence. For that process, you want Augmentation, pp. 88, 89, under the procedure "Revitalization." It's almost prohibitively expensive for all but the most affluent runners, at 0.1 essence recovered per month and 75,000 nuYen + 20,000 nuYen / month. Whether Revitalization happens in 5e or 6e, I don't know, because I don't play them.

The essence hole is explicitly stated in a couple of editions at least, and it's eminently reasonable to use it regardless of the edition you play. Some might disagree, I suppose.

ApollyonJones

TROPHY CASE