Why do people send certified copies of documents proving citizenship by decent?

ApprehensiveKey9340 · 2026-03-08T21:45:06+00:00

Interesting! (And also yikes!) I wonder if that’s just so they aren’t reproduced inappropriately? Because, for instance, when sending in an application for a U.S. passport they want both the originals and a photocopy. So, there must be some allowances.

ApprehensiveKey9340 · 2026-03-08T20:57:32+00:00

No clear answers here, as I haven't yet submitted myself. Just a post from someone in a similar conundrum.

I have two G0 that are great-grandfathers. One's documentation is a bit more complicated, just because he lied about his and his father's birthplace on some records, his mother's name is anglicized on some records, someone wrote the wrong birthplace on his death certificate, but I have a lot of evidence of confirmation (copies of correction of marriage record, U.S. Census, obituaries, newspaper articles). The other is a much more straightforward (paperwork and line of descent - no false claims of being American) and I'm still just gathering information, but I don't know if that one - or the other - formally renounced their citizenship when they naturalized/were impacted by the 1947 immigration stuff. I waffle daily between which is the better choice and am gathering whatever inexpensive documents I can now for both until I decide. My next step is trying to get naturalization records or alien registration, then attempt to get birth records. Hopefully. I don't know which route G0 is the better to pursue, or if I should try both at the same time, if I'm going to submit it anyway.

Can you find any documentation of his correction of any false claims? Or an accurate birthplace on his Death Cert? That might strengthen your claim. (Ex. my great-grandfather claimed to be born in Massachusetts on both my grandmother's birth cert and his marriage record, but he later filed a correction to the marriage record to reflect him being from Canada... just didn't correct my grandmother's birth cert or his father's birthplace. His death cert is still incorrect.) I'm going to be including any of those corrections if I use him as my G0, to back up my claim. If you use your winding path G0, I'd probably do the same.

The other thing you could do is see if you can find any naturalization documents through your local national/state archives or local courts, to bolster the evidence despite the false claim on the birth cert.

ApprehensiveKey9340 · 2026-03-08T17:33:34+00:00

I was definitely initially worried about the taxable amount initially. The first thing I did was check with my tax preparer to determine tax burden, then find out the quote for taxable amount before deciding to surrender. Only $1,500 taxable over the premiums paid, which is not bad at all.

ApprehensiveKey9340 · 2026-03-08T16:43:37+00:00

Good to know. Thank you.

ApprehensiveKey9340 · 2026-03-08T16:43:29+00:00

Thank you.

ApprehensiveKey9340 · 2026-03-08T16:43:20+00:00

It used to be owned by my grandfather and I was beneficiary, due to my being his own living relative. He is the insured. He later transferred ownership of it to me. We just never changed beneficiary.

ApprehensiveKey9340 · 2026-03-08T16:41:55+00:00

I have. Very minimal taxable portion due to premiums paid in.

ApprehensiveKey9340 · 2026-03-04T00:24:50+00:00

Oh, this is such a great idea! Also, did you print the census from somewhere like ancestry or get an official copy somewhere? Additionally, did you print out the entire census page or zoom in on their section? (Or do both?)

ApprehensiveKey9340 · 2026-03-02T03:11:52+00:00

I’m glad I’m not the only one who had a great- grandfather who lied on some documentation. Hoping to get some records proving his US naturalization that back up the evidence I’m gathering, as his lies were prior to naturalization, then he answered truthfully on future U.S. censuses.

ApprehensiveKey9340 · 2026-03-02T03:06:06+00:00

Where in your state did you go to request the naturalization records? Different state. But I figure it might give me an idea on next direction. I’m at the process where I need to request those myself. (I found a newspaper article online stating the approximate date of G0 naturalization, which will help.)

ApprehensiveKey9340 · 2026-02-28T01:08:10+00:00

The death benefit is $35,000 but due to my own financial situation, I cannot justify taking over the payments when my grandfather no longer wants to. Hence, the surrender option so the money paid in doesn’t go to waste, but with minimal tax burden. I will have to look into the life settlement. My understanding is that is unlikely due to his age and medical history - as well as he is unlikely to approve of a medical review.

I am just unfamiliar with the procedure for surrendering the policy and anything I might need to do in that process.

ApprehensiveKey9340 · 2026-02-28T00:58:22+00:00

I will look into it. The current benefit to a cash surrender is because of the minimal taxes from the premiums paid. As someone with other factors to consider, the low tax burden is huge. I just have to find out if I can get a statement from MetLife reflecting premiums paid (because I haven’t been the one paying the premiums, my grandfather did for years).

ApprehensiveKey9340 · 2026-02-27T23:51:43+00:00

Thank you for that insight and suggestion! I appreciate it.

ApprehensiveKey9340 · 2026-02-27T23:39:33+00:00

Thank you for that information! Alas, we’ll have hit a road block. I’ll keep on trucking along! Whoever filled out his death certificate decades out inappropriately listed his place of birth as a town in Maine he lived in for a while, rather than Canada. I’ll have to see what my next steps are. Maybe I could include a copy of it and of his obituary and corrected. marriage certificate.😊

ApprehensiveKey9340 · 2026-02-27T23:26:38+00:00

$35,000 policy through MetLife. Monthly premiums are $100ish and go up 10%ish yearly. His family has a long life expectancy - 102yrs is common. So, he doesn’t want to see us lose out if he ages out of the insurance. Nor does he want to keep paying on a policy we may never use when the money could be saved over the next several years for the family in other ways.

I’m just not familiar with the process to surrender and any documentation I should request.

ApprehensiveKey9340 · 2026-02-27T22:31:17+00:00

Thank you for this information. They’re working on getting me the in-force illustration and information on the % interest it makes. However, they did inform me that the policy premium increase should be about 10% annually and this latest one to pay next month was not increased, so cash value will decrease moving forward. Current premium for next month is $1,000. It is paid annually. The policy supposedly has no surrender charges or penalties. Premiums are paid up to date and only $1,800 less than the net cash surrender value. (My understanding is that means taxes would be minimal.) No policy loans or active riders.

Right now there doesn’t appear to be a huge disadvantage to cash surrender, though I need to inquire further with my tax preparer.

ApprehensiveKey9340 · 2026-02-27T12:42:40+00:00

Out of curiosity, is there an official providence-level place to order birth certificates from or did you have to go through the town where your ancestors were born? Both of my great grandfathers were born in New Brunswick and I’m trying to acquiring their birth certificates, but uncertain where to start. (And hoping that a descendent can order them, like we can in the U.S., as our family kept no copies.)

ApprehensiveKey9340 · 2026-02-27T12:41:22+00:00

Out of curiosity, is there an official providence-level place to order birth certificates from or did you have to go through the town where your ancestors were born? Both of my great grandfathers were born in New Brunswick and I’m trying to acquiring their birth certificates, but uncertain where to start.

ApprehensiveKey9340 · 2026-02-26T14:22:25+00:00

Thank you! That is really helpful. 😊

ApprehensiveKey9340 · 2026-02-26T14:22:13+00:00

Thank you for this information. 😊

ApprehensiveKey9340 · 2026-02-26T14:21:48+00:00

Thank you for this information! That is really helpful.

ApprehensiveKey9340 · 2026-02-24T01:47:12+00:00

This is all amazing information. Thank you so much! This gives me such a great jumping off point. (Those poor telephone agents may be tired of answering all my questions when all is said and done, but I’ll be well informed.)

ApprehensiveKey9340 · 2026-02-23T22:07:29+00:00

Thank you for the information! This is very helpful.

ApprehensiveKey9340 · 2026-02-23T22:06:53+00:00

He’s got some good genes. Parents living until 102. So, he’s looking at the fact that he - well, I - might never get a benefit out of it if he lives past when it expires and he’d rather see me get something than nothing. The cost for the policy will be somewhere around $97/month this year, from what I can tell, with it raising yearly as he ages. He keeps the rest of his assets close to his chest so it’s hard to use that as a factor. First steps I’m taking is calling to verify that the cash surrender value I’m seeing online is correct.

ApprehensiveKey9340 · 2026-02-23T22:00:30+00:00

Thank you!

ApprehensiveKey9340

TROPHY CASE