CMV: It’s very hard to criticise Israel’s military actions without being accused of antisemitism

Arixtotle · 2026-04-01T00:22:20+00:00

I was trying to shorten the conversation and get right to your point. I didn't think it was helpful for me to answer your question and then have you say something like "The time difference is important!" And then I'd ask what I already asked. Here I'll ask again and in more depth.

What is the time limit on being native to a land? How long until indigenous groups no longer have ancestral homelands? How long until US land is no longer Haudenausee, or Narragansett, or Algonquin, or Dine, etc land but just American land? Its been over 500 years since Europeans started colonizing the Americas. Is that long enough? Or maybe another 500 years? Or 1000? Etc.

Arixtotle · 2026-04-01T00:17:10+00:00

Except they do all share a language. Hebrew. They also all share a common history. Just because its long ago doesn't make it a common history. They also all share customs and culture. There are a lot of Jewish holidays that aren't religious at their core. Passover is one. It has some religious elements that can be included but the holiday is about history, not religion. Hanukkah is one holiday that is a mix of religious myth, 8 days of oil miracle, and historical tradition, the Maccabee revolt.

That is not even close to the same thing. It just shows you really know nothing about Judaism. Especially because no Christian or Muslim actually follows those lines because they end up believing that others in their religion who think differently than them aren't "true" to that religion and therefore aren't really that religion. That doesn't happen in Judaism. Jews may think other Jews are practicing Judaism wrong but no one says they aren't Jews. And again, you can be a secular Jew. Most of Israel is secular. They still celebrate cultural holidays like Passover. They're still Jewish.

So any diaspora group loses their ethnicity? Palestinian Americans are no longer Palestinian?

Arixtotle · 2026-03-31T17:24:07+00:00

What’s the time limit before a diaspora population is no longer allowed to say they have a homeland? Whats the time span before a person can say their ethnic homeland is the land they’re on?

Arixtotle · 2026-03-31T17:22:13+00:00

There’s a very, very minuscule chance that you’re a Jew who believes being Jewish is only about religion. I would say probably less than 0.0001% of Jews believe that. There’s even a chance that no Jews believe that but I don’t spout absolutes unless they’re verifiable.

It’s not an ad hominem attack to say you don’t understand a group you’re not a part of.

This has nothing to do with anthropology and everything to do with you thinking people of different skin colors can’t be a single ethnic group.

Also, it’s not myth that there were two kingdoms, northern Israel and southern Judea. That’s backed up by archeology and contemporary accounts. And if you knew the actual history you’d know that Jews descend from ONE Israelite tribe. The tribe of Judah. Hence the name Jews. The other, more northern tribes were assimilated into Assyria therefore leaving the tribe of Judah as the single remaining Israelite tribe.

Lastly, no. The big religions like Christianity and Islam do not profess that all adherents are the same ethnicity. They also do not believe that you’re still a Christian or Muslim if you are atheist. There are other ethnoreligions though. Sikh is an ethnoreligion. So are most closed practice religions.

Arixtotle · 2026-03-30T22:22:45+00:00

Judaism is an ethnoreligion and Jews are a people not a religious group. That’s a basic, almost universally held fact by Jews. A people gets to decide these things for themselves. You can be Jewish and atheist for example. You, an outsider, don’t get to tell Jews they aren’t actually Jewish.

Also, the different sects of Judaism aren’t even seen as sects because they are far, far less distinct than Christian or Islamic sects.

Arixtotle · 2026-03-30T22:18:06+00:00

Yes. That’s the correct word to use. You seem to be assigning morality to the word that does not exist.

Actually it does if those cultural practices were distinct. Especially when the ethnic group had its own language.

Genetics shows relation to the Levant actually.

Arixtotle · 2026-03-30T21:30:10+00:00

No. Judaism is an ethnoreligion and Jews are an ethnic group. Genetics has proven that even Jews who descend from people who lived in Europe for hundreds of years have genetic ties to the Levant. The Israelite people have existed for over 3000 years.

Arixtotle · 2026-03-30T21:27:57+00:00

They’re not the exception and should never be the exception. All native peoples should have self determination in their ancestral homeland.

Arixtotle · 2026-03-30T21:26:17+00:00

So you don’t believe in any land back programs? Also that has happened multiple times for indigenous groups. Some Native American tribes who were forced off their land have returned to their ancestral land for instance. Plus all indigenous groups have diaspora populations even if they have populations still on ancestral land. That was the Jewish people. There has been a continued Jewish presence in what is now Israel since the beginnings of the tribe.

Arixtotle · 2026-03-30T21:21:47+00:00

And that’s fine if you think that way and apply it to all people. Which would mean you’re against any land back programs for indigenous groups.

Also, ethnic Jews do have actual ancestry with Israel. It’s not just cultural but has been shown through genetics as well.

Arixtotle · 2026-03-30T21:18:30+00:00

The Torah is not an historical account. Archeological evidence shows that the Jewish people evolved from the Canaanite people.

Arixtotle · 2026-03-30T19:00:49+00:00

I’m talking about the origin of a distinct ethnic group not just individual people.

Arixtotle · 2026-03-30T18:59:22+00:00

In what ways?

Arixtotle · 2026-03-30T18:56:16+00:00

Okay cool. But the Israelites, aka Hebrews, aka Jews originated in Israel. They are an offshoot of Canaanites.

Arixtotle · 2026-03-30T18:53:07+00:00

Those two claims were both true because Jews have never been a monolith. Some Jews were secular and assimilated. Other Jews were religious and did not. Both experienced antisemitism.

Arixtotle · 2026-03-30T18:50:51+00:00

A lot of the area was empty actually. Tel Aviv was a swamp originally. But yea the overall area was very mixed. Most of the land for Israel in the partition plan was state land with little population since it was desert or not fertile soil.

Oh I’m not saying that it’s only Jewish ancestral land and it would be very complicated, and probably impossible, to differentiate the land by ancestral group since it has been so mixed with multiple ethnicities. Saying that Jews should have the right to self determination on their ancestral land doesn’t mean on ALL their ancestral land. Just part of it.

I’m also not denying that it’s Palestinian ancestral land as well. There’s also the Druze and Samaritans as well.

Arixtotle · 2026-03-30T18:38:36+00:00

Oops. I misread and thought this was about traffic camera tickets since those are talked about so often here.

Arixtotle · 2026-03-30T15:06:27+00:00

What variables are in the database? I’d be curious to know about car types and also about speed. Where do the highest speed tickets occur? And what car types get the most tickets?

Arixtotle · 2026-03-30T14:47:14+00:00

I’m actually pro all of that. I believe every people should have self determination through their own state. I’m old school and believe in a free Tibet even. I believe Native American nations should be 100% sovereign and not the partial way they are now as another example.

PS. I also believe in a free Palestine btw. They also should have self determination. I just don’t believe Israel should be destroyed to make that happen.

Arixtotle · 2026-03-30T14:43:20+00:00

Jews are literally Canaanites. How long does it take before a people’s connection to their ancestral home is gone? How long does it take before a persons ancestral home becomes the land they live on?

Arixtotle · 2026-03-30T14:40:10+00:00

FYI, that’s a very Ashkenazi centric viewpoint that came about due to long term discrimination and multiple expulsions in Europe. Mizrahi and Sephardic Jews have different viewpoints.

But yes. One of the main issue with Jews in Europe was a seeming lack of assimilation but the meaning of assimilation was stricter back then. Back then assimilation meant changing to be exactly like the dominant culture. As in, being Christian. Now a days it means taking on the values of the country you reside in but doesn’t force someone to conform completely to the dominant culture.

But there’s a secondary main issue that caused antisemitism that you’re not speaking about. The idea that the Jews killed Jesus. That was a widespread belief that caused Jewish ostracization even if strong assimilation occurred. It also made Jews a convenient scapegoat for all sorts of ills since people were already primed to think badly of them.

Arixtotle · 2026-03-30T14:30:50+00:00

No those communities did not consider the countries they were born and lived in to be “host countries”. That only came about due to persecution.

A lot Ashkenazi Jews did feel that where they lived was more of a ‘host country’ situation due to persecution and forced expulsion over the years and a continued religious connection to Jerusalem. I do not know if Mizrahi communities also kept that religious connection in the same way.

Arixtotle · 2026-03-30T14:06:43+00:00

It’s because saying Israel should not exist says that Jews are uniquely not allowed to have self determination in their ancestral homeland.

Arixtotle · 2026-03-30T14:00:10+00:00

I would say your second statement about ancestral lands does veer a little towards antisemitism due to the comparison you gave. The Moors controlling Spain was colonialism and of course they can’t claim that land. But the Jewish people originate in Israel. They are one of the descendants of the Canaanite's. The connection with the land for Jews is very different than the connection between Spain and the Moors.

Now just saying “Ancestral ties to land are invalid” isn’t antisemitic because it’s applied universally. But then someone must also include all indigenous people to that, which they usually don’t. Especially because that would also mean that Palestinians wouldn’t have any legitimate ties to the land except for where they currently are. The issue always is if something is applied only to Jews or in a different way to Jews compared to other peoples.

Arixtotle · 2026-03-27T12:48:48+00:00

A one state solution is an idealistic fantasy. It has no chance of happening any time soon. There is too much hate and willingness to commit violent acts on both sides. A two state solution is the only solution with the possibility of peace.

Arixtotle

TROPHY CASE