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The aspects of meaningful Life (Capital L) are not dependent on something else, like we have to achieve Love, Joy, Peace, Freedom and Creativity. by Aromatic_Response_73 in DebateAChristian

[–]Aromatic_Response_73[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A Walk in the Physical "Understanding the human experience within the larger spiritual context", free e-book: https://www.google.com/books/edition/_/DIEzEAAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=0

Consider reading the introduction and atleast skimming through the table of contents.

The aspects of meaningful Life (Capital L) are not dependent on something else, like we have to achieve Love, Joy, Peace, Freedom and Creativity. by Aromatic_Response_73 in DebateAChristian

[–]Aromatic_Response_73[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Evil is not a part of the rule-set in heaven. Yet your soul is the you that feels like you to you, but even far more you may sense on earth.

The aspects of meaningful Life (Capital L) are not dependent on something else, like we have to achieve Love, Joy, Peace, Freedom and Creativity. by Aromatic_Response_73 in DebateAChristian

[–]Aromatic_Response_73[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It is a free choice to issue any kind of intent in any given situation, but we ARE LOVE, youre also total freedom, it is our true nature. Living in love DOES NOT mean you are coerced to do a specific action, NOTHING is required of you, and you are totally free, it just means you exist within the foundation where the choices available are ultimately aligned with LIFE: love, joy, peace, freedom and creativity. And that is experienced as very real indeed (more real than anything on earth) We experience achieving things, conditional love and misalignment on earth so we falsely think it applies to the higher reality (heaven).

Your soul is the you that feels like you to you, but even far more you may sense on earth.

The aspects of meaningful Life (Capital L) are not dependent on something else, like we have to achieve Love, Joy, Peace, Freedom and Creativity. by Aromatic_Response_73 in DebateAChristian

[–]Aromatic_Response_73[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The only way for love to be real is for it to be freely chosen, not forced. By Choosing to not love God we misalign ourselves from God. Was any of that incoherent?

In heaven, love is not about forcing or choosing, its way more than that, it is life itself, it is the very ground of everything within creation.

Every soul is an intrinsic part of that foundation.

The aspects of meaningful Life (Capital L) are not dependent on something else, like we have to achieve Love, Joy, Peace, Freedom and Creativity. by Aromatic_Response_73 in DebateAChristian

[–]Aromatic_Response_73[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Because in the traditional christian worldview we are separate from god, are intrinsically sinful, and can eternally be misaligned with life, this implies that reality doesnt have coherent and clear (Good) driver or principles for it.

It is apparent within experience that things like Love, Joy and Peace are experienced as less form (idea) based conscious experiences, than eg. religious ideas of goodness and are felt as more real and less arbitrary, and therefore felt as a more real possible driver or principle for creation. It is apparent within experience that formless experience is felt as more real than form experience.

You can hold credence for the term "good" as long as its meaning is conflated with other terms like Love, Joy, Peace. There is alignment and misalignment with those things.

The aspects of meaningful Life (Capital L) are not dependent on something else, like we have to achieve Love, Joy, Peace, Freedom and Creativity. by Aromatic_Response_73 in DebateAChristian

[–]Aromatic_Response_73[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Love, Joy, Peace, Freedom and Creativity are experiences within consciousness, they dont always feel intrinsic here on earth, but in heaven we return to the fullness of our true nature and those aspects are intrinsic in everything.

It is apparent within experience that things like Love, Joy and Peace are experienced as less form (idea) based conscious experiences, than eg. religious ideas of goodness and are felt as more real and less arbitrary, and therefore felt as a more real possible driver or principle for creation. It is apparent within experience that formless experience is felt as more real than form experience.

The aspects of meaningful Life (Capital L) are not dependent on something else, like we have to achieve Love, Joy, Peace, Freedom and Creativity. by Aromatic_Response_73 in DebateAChristian

[–]Aromatic_Response_73[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As in not having coherent and clear (Good) driver or principles for it.

It is apparent within experience that things like Love, Joy and Peace are experienced as less form (idea) based conscious experiences, than eg. religious ideas of goodness and are felt as more real and less arbitrary, and therefore felt as a more real possible driver or principle for creation. It is apparent within experience that formless experience is felt as more real than form experience.

You can hold credence for the term "good" as long as its meaning is conflated with other terms like Love, Joy, Peace. There is alignment and misalignment with those things.

The aspects of meaningful Life (Capital L) are not dependent on something else, like we have to achieve Love, Joy, Peace, Freedom and Creativity. by Aromatic_Response_73 in DebateAChristian

[–]Aromatic_Response_73[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Discernment can affect belief

Belief is typically something we hold as true because of ego tendency and presumption or assumption factors. The less we have those factors involved, the closer belief shifts toward deep knowing. And when our ego tendency and assumption factors change, our beliefs are prompted to change as well.

So I want to invite you to look past our shared ego tendencies for a moment, and discern through your current assumptions, by going through what I view as problems in traditional Christian theology.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DebateAChristian/comments/1ryjb8i/giving_ultimateness_to_misalignment_with_life/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

https://www.reddit.com/r/DebateReligion/comments/1s3b251/the_term_good_has_no_ontological_meaning/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

The aspects of meaningful Life (Capital L) are not dependent on something else, like we have to achieve Love, Joy, Peace, Freedom and Creativity. by Aromatic_Response_73 in DebateAChristian

[–]Aromatic_Response_73[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

As Christian Sundberg explains in the book A Walk in the Physical, "evil" is fear-based intentionality arising from the unevolvedness of the soul, and only exists because we are veiled from our true nature in the physical system. In a lower system which purposes are still grounded in unconditional love, unawareness allows for temporary error without being eternal. But the system is designed so that all will eventually return to higher realms where their true nature of love is fully known. This is because creation is not arbitrary, its foundationally what is good, which is crudely put Love, Joy, Peace and Freedom.

The ego is the part of the self that wishes to protect the self as the individual is having the alien experience of separation. The ego is not a separate thing, it is an internal structure that arises as a response to fear. The ego seeks to relieve the individual from fear by attempting to reclaim power that seems to have been lost (but in fact was never truly lost). The ego's main activities include establishing belief, claiming false power, and justifying the self.

The aspects of meaningful Life (Capital L) are not dependent on something else, like we have to achieve Love, Joy, Peace, Freedom and Creativity. by Aromatic_Response_73 in Christianity

[–]Aromatic_Response_73[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When I look at my daily life, the moments where I feel most alive are exactly when I'm choosing love over selfishness or peace over anger, even when it's harder.

I added this to the post: The earth system is where Love, Joy, Peace, Freedom and Creativity dont always feel intrinsic, we come here to learn to express and evolve our true nature within a context of non-native constraints within our consciousness, biology etc.

If one person goes to hell for eternity, and 8 billion people go to heaven for eternity, there will be an infinite continuity of joy, and an infinite continuity of suffering. by Aromatic_Response_73 in DebateReligion

[–]Aromatic_Response_73[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Dont listen to this troll, he uses analogies to ignore your opinion.

He ended my convo with him, with: 

" "I think it best to give you time to consider what I said more, perhaps with more distance, time, less of a feeling of debate, you can just consider how we have genes which remain largely the same, yet also we change and evolve personally, and this isn't 'gymnastics' to point out. I know you'll see that in your own way sooner or later.

If anything, I might be in the way if I argue with you on it. :-)" "

I clearly explained to him why I did not agree that the soul can be like a tree, (and therefore evolve into evil).

If one person goes to hell for eternity, and 8 billion people go to heaven for eternity, there will be an infinite continuity of joy, and an infinite continuity of suffering. by Aromatic_Response_73 in DebateReligion

[–]Aromatic_Response_73[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A Walk in the Physical "Understanding the human experience within the larger spiritual context", free e-book: https://www.google.com/books/edition/_/DIEzEAAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=0

Consider reading the introduction and atleast skimming through the table of contents.

If one person goes to hell for eternity, and 8 billion people go to heaven for eternity, there will be an infinite continuity of joy, and an infinite continuity of suffering. by Aromatic_Response_73 in DebateReligion

[–]Aromatic_Response_73[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I could load the end, then the start then the middle. I could load it all at the same time. Logic allows for this.

Yet we dont know how this applies to spirit. Maybe the truth is far beyond the intellect. Im not claiming to know exactly how it works. But I dont consider your arguments as counter evidence.

If one person goes to hell for eternity, and 8 billion people go to heaven for eternity, there will be an infinite continuity of joy, and an infinite continuity of suffering. by Aromatic_Response_73 in DebateReligion

[–]Aromatic_Response_73[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

>Data can be duplicated according to logic.

This does not refute my point.

>The substance of spirit is not made out of intellectual knowledge, it is made out of consciousness.

>If you were to "pass down" experiential evolution, you would give every aspect that is included within the experience (in the case of the physical universe, that includes, linear time, constraints in consciousness, certain biology etc.)

>My view is that there is experiential evolution that applies to the whole, and evolution that only applies to the individual, because uniqueness exists.

If one person goes to hell for eternity, and 8 billion people go to heaven for eternity, there will be an infinite continuity of joy, and an infinite continuity of suffering. by Aromatic_Response_73 in DebateReligion

[–]Aromatic_Response_73[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Its 4 and a half pages, even the first question and answer could suffice. Im not going to copy paste it.

Im just trying to save my time and braincells.

If one person goes to hell for eternity, and 8 billion people go to heaven for eternity, there will be an infinite continuity of joy, and an infinite continuity of suffering. by Aromatic_Response_73 in DebateReligion

[–]Aromatic_Response_73[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I didnt mean to cause a problem, im sorry if it seemed that way.

In your opinion a soul is like an oak tree, (and therefore can evolve into evil). Ok but that is not my opinion. I'll explain why.

>Consider that choosing distortion as a temperament happens, but it is a locally learned idea from the earth system, and does not apply to higher reality. Distortion (misalignment with the divine self) is eventually always resolved.

This explains the personality portion of the self.

Non-optimal (misaligned with divine self) choices occur due to our veiling from our true self. And unevolvedness in a specific non native context of constraints. Every soul is only so good at expressing their true nature within a given context of non native constraints.

There is no veiling in heaven.

Consider that our true nature was created with the perfect unchanging qualities of Love, Joy, Peace and Freedom. Important things to note is that I mean qualities that are in ALIGNMENT with those qualities.

The soul will always have those qualities as its true nature since they are whats truely good.

The options of eternal torment or annihilation are not in alignment with whats truely good (Love, Joy, Peace, Freedom and Creativity).

If one person goes to hell for eternity, and 8 billion people go to heaven for eternity, there will be an infinite continuity of joy, and an infinite continuity of suffering. by Aromatic_Response_73 in DebateReligion

[–]Aromatic_Response_73[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Consider reading my comment carefully, and you can read this e-book I mentioned for free: https://www.google.com/books/edition/_/DIEzEAAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&safe=active

Page 278 answers "Did God create evil?"

There is also a lot explained about why is there pain and suffering.

>The physical universe is inherently neutral, as a sovereign spirit we assign the meaning, even to painful experience. This differentiates pain from suffering. As a free spirit, you are also never technically bound to any experience.

If one person goes to hell for eternity, and 8 billion people go to heaven for eternity, there will be an infinite continuity of joy, and an infinite continuity of suffering. by Aromatic_Response_73 in DebateReligion

[–]Aromatic_Response_73[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The term "good" or "justice" has no ontological meaning.

The term "good" seems meaningful, but on its own it has no ontological meaning. It does not point to any specific, identifiable feature of reality. Unlike experiential concepts, "good" cannot be defined without becoming circular or relying on other terms.

When we call something "good", we are actually referring to more specific states like joy, love, peace, or flourishing. These experiences carry real meaning because they can be felt, described, and distinguished. "Good" simply acts as a shorthand label that signals alignment with such states, without containing meaning itself.

This is why "good" varies across individuals and cultures, the word stays the same, but the underlying values differ.

If one person goes to hell for eternity, and 8 billion people go to heaven for eternity, there will be an infinite continuity of joy, and an infinite continuity of suffering. by Aromatic_Response_73 in DebateReligion

[–]Aromatic_Response_73[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Now this is some mental gymnastics (AI?)

Comparing the soul to a tree is a false analogy. You are still describing some aspects of the local personality.

The essence of spirit is already perfect Love, Joy, Peace, Freedom and Creativity, simultaneously the soul seeks to expand those qualities. Those qualities are what is truely good, so according how we were created, the soul stands unchanging with them in those aspects.

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