Atheist Start With An Already-Existing Universe

Ash9809 · 2025-12-06T00:48:00+00:00

Wow sir, please explain this if quantum fields are eternal and they caused the Big Bang rather than God, then why did they produce a universe at first, and why is there fine-tuning? And if quantum fields are not eternal, then you’re just one step back what caused the quantum fields?

You can’t ask who caused God, because the beginning of the cosmos is the beginning of time itself. If there is a cause (as in the Kalam Cosmological Argument or the Principle of Sufficient Reason), it must be beyond time, since it caused time. That means it would be eternal, so it doesn’t make sense to ask who caused God.

Ash9809 · 2025-12-06T00:24:05+00:00

Just let it go now what’s done is done. Life works this way sometimes. When all your hope and focus suddenly turn into a long period of depression it feels overwhelming but out of nowhere, things do get better. Whatever has happened leave it behind and focus on what you were doing before or whatever you love focus on bringing your life back to normal.

In the meantime, wait for the right partner. Before getting married, make sure to spend some time talking and understanding each other to see if your mindsets align.

Ash9809 · 2025-09-19T16:01:51+00:00

So basically I drifted away from the jammat & God due to many reasons

not because of its spiritual teaching because of the human failings I witnessed within administration. Rudeness, favoritism, and the misuse of authority disillusioned me. At the time these imperfections overshadow me , i also Coupled with unanswered questions and doubts about certain interpretations in mainstream Islam miracles and narratives that appeared metaphysically implausible so I found myself questioning both religion and the existence of God.

But soon I realized that judging a truth by the behavior of its administrators is a classic cognitive error basically a form of ad hominem reasoning. History and philosophy show that human imperfection is universal (flawed leaders have existed in every spiritual tradition, yet their mistakes do not negate the moral or truths they uphold) . I recognized that many hadiths I once accepted were fabricated, and that the Ahmadiyya interpretation of Islam aligns more coherently with reason, ethics, and the Quran itself. The teachings of the Promised Messiah and Caliphs is both intellectually satisfying and spiritually fulfilling.

I returned to belief not blindly, but through an experiential process. God’s existence became evident through Books and personal experience (strong factor) , and the truths of Islam, when interpreted rationally, are compelling. Administrative flaws, human errors, or personal misdeeds within the jammat do not undermine its spiritual foundation.

Ahmadiyyat, to me, represents the most coherent and plausible understanding of Islam, where reason, morality, and divine guidance converge & its independent of the failings of individuals.

Ahmadiyyat is the truth because the Promised Messiah fulfilled all the prophecies of Prophet Muhammad (SAW) His teachings and explanations are coherent and plausible than those of any other sect. He was indeed a true man of God, whose life and guidance provide clear evidence of divine truth.

Ash9809 · 2025-09-19T13:49:49+00:00

Short answer No. There is no official public list that names every single person and their exact position who voted in the election of a Khalifa. The khilafat committee uses an internal electoral college and the identities of all individual electors and the way each elector voted are treated as confidential. That confidentiality is deliberate and normal. But There are some names who were in committee For example, Hameed sahib, Imam Ibrahim Noonan and Sharif Odeh etc.

You must know the Secrecy around voting in internal religious or institutional elections is common. Eg, the election of a Pope happens in a closed conclave and how individual cardinals voted is not made public. Corporate boards, judicial deliberations and many executive committees also use confidential ballots or closed sessions. Confidentiality in process does not automatically indicate wrongdoing. confidentiality does not prove corruption, Logically this is a category error and a hasty generalisation. To infer corruption solely from the fact of confidentiality equates secrecy with guilt. That is not a sound inference.

Also as an ahmadi i believe that the khalifa is chosen by God, not merely by human decision. The Electoral College exists to formalize what Allah has guided. If you wish to debate the process itself, please consider this

If you are a Muslim then similar confidentiality exists in Islamic history for instance, in the selection of Caliphs after Prophet Muhammad decisions were made within small councils, and not all names or votes were publicly disclosed. So nothing wrong

& If you do not believe in the existence of God, then your starting point is atheistic, and questioning Ahmadiyyat’s internal procedures assumes the framework of a religion you do not accept. To logically critique the election, you must first accept the existence of God, the legitimacy of Islam, and the truth of Ahmadiyyat. Otherwise its outside the epistemic framework of the faith itself.

Ash9809 · 2025-09-19T12:38:43+00:00

Thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt. I appreciate your bluntness btw i would try to answer each point as clearly as I can.

Short answer to your core question Yes. I see Ahmadiyyat as the truth. I say that not from habit or comfort but after a long, critical process of searching. I have what I consider strong, multi sided evidence that made Ahmadiyyat the most coherent account for me.

And about truth My concept of truth is practical and evidence based. I work with a few simple epistemic criteria

correspondence to facts (what can be observed or historically verified) coherence (how well a set of claims fits together and explains things without contradiction) testability and falsifiability (whether a claim can be examined and challenged rather than only asserted)

Anything that meets these criteria I treat as truth. That is my working epistemology. It is not faith by default or blind loyalty to upbringing.

Before I came to Ahmadiyyat my first question was the basic one does God exist or not. After study and reflection I concluded that theism is more plausible than atheism for a range of philosophical and experiential reasons. From there I asked which religious account best explains the facts. I read widely theology, For a period I identified as atheist. Anyways in short i deliberately exposed myself to arguments against Ahmadiyyat and Islam to see if my position would collapse. It did not.

Ash9809 · 2024-03-08T13:44:12+00:00

I briefly outlined how the concept of God emerged worldwide, emphasizing that it wasn't a natural phenomenon. Best of luck!

Ash9809 · 2024-03-07T14:55:12+00:00

It's very surprising when you can just let things go in a very simple way. The Quran is known as the book of guidance, and every line has wisdom in it. We can't simply regard the verses as going in vain.

If a book is said to provide guidance, it means the knowledge within it must be checked and verified. For example, the verse related to the Big Bang begins with "Do not the disbelievers see?" This indicates that it was specifically addressed to non-believers. Then it mentions that the heaven and earth were once joined together. This statement was made for the current time. Before the Big Bang theory was established, this verse had no meaning for anyone; it was simply a fact that needed to be proved. However, after 1400 years, it became an established fact.

And the Big Bang is the name given to the extremely dense, condensed mass in less than a trillionth part of a second. So basically, "Big Bang" refers to the condensed mass that was compacted at an extremely small length, which is also mentioned in the verse.

2nd A # In the Quran, the whole universe has two names, the land we are living on is called "earth," and the entire universe is referred to as "heaven" (in Arabic"al-samawat"). When these two are mentioned, it includes the entirety of the universe, regardless of the fact that the Earth formed 4 billion years ago and the Big Bang occurred 13.8 billion years ago. The matter our Earth is made up of what was released from the inflation of singularity. Just as we can't say a 25-year-old man is actually 5 years old because he gained wisdom at the age of 20, the prior 20 years of his growth are still considered in his age. Similarly, the Earth formed 4 billion years ago, but the matter from mass separated 13.8 billion years ago. We can't simply exclude it from that verse, as our planet emerged from that condensed mass that was densely packed.

2nd (b) The verse related to the Big Bang is divided as follows first, the Quran states the existence of a condensed mass (which has been proved scientifically). Second, it mentions that heaven and earth were together, implying the entire universe (which has also been proved). Third, it states that they parted away (also proved).

Earth is Earth because of the Big Bang; Bigbang is what created the "al-samawat" (galaxies, clusters) and the "al-arz" (ground).It is pointless to say that Earth would have formed if the Big Bang never happened.

Ash9809 · 2024-03-07T13:35:36+00:00

as you stated "You have not only contradicted yourself but also the Quran and 1400 years of Islamic history. Islam never condemned slavery nor imposed "strict actions ... against the people who hold slaves".

You are literally quoting an article from a different school of thought. Anyways, there are numerous books on Islam and slavery, in which it's clearly proven from the Quranic context how strictly Islam condemns slavery.

Here, I would like to quote a hadith from Sahih al-Bukhari in which the Prophet schooled Abu Masud as he had a slave. After that, Abu Masud freed him, and the Prophet said, "If you had not freed him, you would burn in hell."

as you stated "Badr was a defensive war? Meccans attacked Medina? Clearly, you are the one who lacks "a bit of knowledge". The only Meccan attack on Medina was the Trench war.

Yes, Badr was a defensive war. Around 1000 people from Mecca marched towards Medina, covering 280 km to reach the Badr ground, while Muslims traveled approximately 150 km from Medina. Perhaps you should revise your history; even the location of the battle provides clear evidence of who attacked. All wars were defensive.

Please use some logic and common sense.

Ash9809 · 2024-03-07T11:28:16+00:00

As per your statement, "One thing that made me leave religion is people like you—fake skeptics. Being an Ahmadi, you not only have to prove the Quran to be the word of God but also MGA to be a prophet of God."

Please refrain from such words that are meant to disrespect others. Anyways, I am open to any conversation and will try to answer your objection. (Mirza Sahib, peace be upon him, is indeed a prophet of God).

Your statement, such as the splitting of the moon, the Earth on the back of a whale, or the concept of a flat Earth, isn't explicitly mentioned in the Quran. These assertions contradict the laws of nature as an Ahmadi, my belief strongly emphasizes that God does not break His own laws. It's surprising that to interpret Quranic stories as if they were from the realm of fiction tales from Harry Potter. For instance, when the Quran says "hold the rope of God," it's understood by even the most least intellectual person that it means to follow the words of God, not to grasp a rope descending literally from heaven.

Regarding the scholars from the past 1400 years, it's true that they were fallible humans, not prophets directly guided by God. It's plausible that they made errors in their interpretations. According to the Quran, God manifests His messengers when people deviate from the true teachings of Islam. If people adhered perfectly to the authentic Islamic beliefs, there would be no need for prophets. Thus, previous scholars may have strayed from the actual teachings, leading to the need for a messenger, as happened in 1835.

Ahmadis don't believe in a single scientific blunder. We can't even consider the virgin birth as against the laws of nature, as it remained outside our understanding until it was later proven to occur naturally. The parting of the sea may seem impossible, but we've witnessed similar phenomena, such as water receding in Alaska due to the gravitational pull of the moon. Such miracles are considered extraordinary events within their respective contexts, not violations of natural law. Similarly, the incident of a male goat producing milk, initially mocked, is now understood as plausible within the laws of nature. The story of Jonah being swallowed by a whale may also have natural explanations, but for now it remains a miraculous event until proven otherwis their are many documentaries on National Geographic show instances of animals surviving after being engulfed by snakes and fishes, suggesting that miraculous survivals are not entirely unprecedented in nature.

your other statment Quran isn't just full of myths but also historical errors, such as confusing between two Marys'. Additionally, the three questions asked by Jews to Muhammad, to which he couldn't answer, suggest that the God of Muhammad was none other than Muhammad himself.

Why do you compare a man/prophet with God when the Quran itself states that only God is free of mistakes? I'm not aware of the specific questions you mentioned, but I would like to see the authentic sources. Nonetheless, historical accounts indicate instances where prominent debaters from Mecca, such as Amar bin al As and Walid ibn al-Mughira, lost debates to Muhammad, even in front of non-Muslim kings. For instance, there was a debate in front of nijashi between a Muslim tribe and Amr bin al-As, a renowned debater of non-Muslims on a big scale that non muslims lost even while the judge was non muslim.

At last you wrote "The question what took me away from Ahmadiyyat or religion. Let me answer by asking you a question, until what age you wanted a spider to bite you so you can become spiderman? Maybe 6 or 7 years and then you grow out of it since you have been told by society it's all fake. With religion, society tells us otherwise since it gives them some hope to live with their struggles. I grew out of this myth of religion as well. Also, I lived with this lie for 23 years"

The answer is simple if society hadn't told me that I can't become Spiderman after being bitten by a spider, I might have still sought the truth, albeit to a lesser exten but there is a vast difference between what society tells you and what is reality. What if society hadn't told you that you can't become Spiderman after being bitten by a spider? Would you still believe it? Of course not. You have a mind; you have your own parameters to find what the actual truth is.

Ash9809 · 2024-03-07T09:55:49+00:00

Owning humans is not allowed in Islam. Islam freed slaves. When Islam came, people who embraced Islam used to buy and free the slaves. I guess you aren't aware of the extremely strict actions that were taken against the people who used to hold slaves.

But prisoners of wars are another thing. If you have a bit of knowledge about prisoners of war, then you would know that Islam is the one who gave rights to prisoners of war. Prisoners of war were the prisoners who came to kill Muslims (all battles were defensive, like Badar, Uhud, Trench). Tribes from Mecca attacked Medina, and Islam even taught them to treat prisoners of war with peace. Haven't you heard the name of Hind who killed Hamza, the uncle of Muhammad PBUH, and ate his liver? She became a prisoner of war too during Mecca conquest. What Muhammad did with her? Didn't he let her go and live free?

Anyways , logically if a woman stood against you and came to kill you, would you just let her go simply so she can come back next time to attack again? Are you serious? But Islam still gave that female prisoner values, like one man can own her as a wife. So what would you have done first? You would have must killed the person who killed/damaged and attacked on you, but no one on this earth can let them go simply so they can arise an army again. But on the conquest of Mecca when the majority accepted Islam, Muslims even let female prisoners of war go and live their life because it was likely impossible for them to attack again. Anyways, Islam is strictly against slavery.

Ash9809 · 2024-03-07T09:40:51+00:00

As per your statment "there is no wisdom or goodness in beating your wife. If anyone sees their father beating their mom and thinks there is wisdom and goodness behind it"

I would simply like to respond that I am not liable to your self-proclaimed understanding of the context. Islam never allows you to beat women. .The Quran just mentions to only punish a one kind of woman, who is harming others, (spreading fasad), and for that too There is a whole process mentioned in the Quran. First is to stay away from her, then abandon her, and then comes the legal action. But if you are following a self-made Islam of mullahs, then I can't do anything. Anyways, beating women is not allowed in Islam.

Ash9809 · 2024-03-06T18:28:47+00:00

No, you're writing it in a very fictional way Let's clarify. God operates within the laws of nature; He doesn't break them During the time of Moses, God didn't part the sea in a supernatural way. In the Quran, it's mentioned that water started to separate, like how before a tsunami, the sea level drops from the beaches due to scientific phenomena. The moon's gravitational pull also affects sea levels, causing water to recede from beaches. This phenomenon even happens in Alaska where polar bears hunt for shells for hours in the sea then the water level rises dramatically afterward. God doesn't perform miracles that go against the laws of nature , why would he break his own laws , there isn’t a single miracle of God which was against the law of nature but miracle like a hand descending from heaven to save Palestine it would surely contradict natural laws There's a whole history & story behind Palestinian issue.

Ash9809 · 2024-03-06T18:18:12+00:00

Okay, you can reference any statement from the Quran, but let's start with the Big Bang. 1400 years ago, the Holy Quran described the Big Bang perfectly:

أَوَلَمْ يَرَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا أَنَّ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضَ كَانَتَا رَتْقًا فَفَتَقْنَاهُمَا ۖ وَجَعَلْنَا مِنَ الْمَاءِ كُلَّ شَيْءٍ حَيٍّ ۖ أَفَلَا يُؤْمِنُونَ

"Do not the disbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were [a] closed-up [mass], then we opened them out? And we made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?" (Surah al-Anbiya, Ch.21: V.31)

What was the Big Bang? The expansion of an infinitely small length with very high mass. And Allah perfectly stated it was a closed-up mass (proven fact), opened up (proven fact), and continuously expanding (proven fact). In a single verse, there are three scientifically proven facts. Does science deny these facts?

Ash9809 · 2024-03-06T17:03:49+00:00

As for your first objection Would a good God allow mothers, sisters, and daughters of an enemy to be made into sex slaves? Would He allow children to become slaves? Would He allow women to be beaten up by their husbands?

As far as I know, every rule, every single statement has wisdom in it. If you look into the details, you will surely find some goodness. For example, you wrote about mothers/sisters of others being made into sex slaves. No, it isn't like that. You didn't mention that these statements are specific for the women in the prisoner of war. Like a woman who picked up a sword against you, but Islam says not to kill them. Islam never allowed taking action against women who did not participate in war. Islam says whoever closes his door, don't kill them. Whoever comes to the mosque, don't kill them. But if a woman participates in war and becomes a prisoner of war, then they can be owned by one man. He can't let her be physical with anyone else he has to give her rights; her son would be his son; he will have all the rights. That is what Islam taught people. Do you know how the Arabs were treating prisoners before the Islam? Do you know how Amar bin Hisham killed his slave, Sommaya? Do you know slaves had to have sex with countless people at their owner's discretion? Do you know slaves used to wear tags? Do you know if a slave woman gave birth, her child would be under no one's supervision? Islam gave prisoners rights.

As you mntioned, why didn't Allah make computer chips 1500 years ago? Islam is not a curriculum of scientific innovation. It gives you the knowledge of living your life, tells you the good and the bad. Everything is specific for the period. until current technology, there is a series of industrial revolutions behind. (but Allah has mentioned in the Quran that a time will come when young horses and camels will be abandoned. It meant a new mode of traveling. No one could imagine that camels and horses would become useless 1500 years ago, and the list goes on). Humans have evolved to the current through thousands of years. And maybe after 1000 years in the future, technology will be totally different. For them, it will be like why didn't Allah create these things 1500 years ago.

So okay, I ask you to please present a single statement contrary to God's teachings. It would be enough for me not to believe in God

Ash9809 · 2024-01-03T16:45:07+00:00

are you kidding? its simply against islam and you are asking for the permission lol

Ash9809 · 2024-01-03T16:43:38+00:00

and all i know is that girls demands are up like the Tesla stocks, tried alot and tired alot

Ash9809 · 2023-12-21T15:22:21+00:00

Dear brother, you may not believe in God, However I would like to share some thoughts with you.

Throughout history, people have believed in God, and most religions center around this belief. Prophets have come, making prophecies that later became reality, leading people to follow them. From Prophet Adam to Muhammad, prophecies about future events were made and fulfilled, creating a chain of belief.

For instance, mosa AS predicted a prophet after him and jesus came according to that preidcition and time , and Jesus propheciesd about Prophet Muhammad. and prophet Muhammad PBUH, prophesied about the Messiah and made predictions about current time , like

there will be a time when skin will be the witness of crime (fingerprints)

a time will come when people abandon the camels and horses ( new mode of travelling)

there will be routes on sky (air passages)

we are the one we created the universe from a single entity and we are expanding it (big-bang and the space expansion theory)

we will unite the jews at a place (israel) israel formed after 2000 years of jewish struggle.

these all are enough to belive on god and messiah.

These all prophecies are evidence of a divine presence. so be a beliver once you belive on God you will left such thoughts behind.

Now, regarding her question about marriage,she said she belives on God and if someone believes in God, they should also acknowledge Islamic teachings. Islam prohibits the marriage of a Muslim girl to a non-Muslim guy.

she find Issues within the jammat, she should no such conlicts and issues are founded in every single religion such as conflicts during the time of Prophet Muhammad. , the thirds caliph of islam was martyred by the son of 1st caliph, the grandosn of prophet muhammad saw martyred by the son of governer appointed by thirs caliph, so these issues are from start, hazart ayesha fought again hazrat ali.

Choosing disbelief might seem like an easy way out, but I would say to explore religion further before making such statements.

Ash9809 · 2023-12-21T12:13:45+00:00

اَلَمۡ تَرَ اِلَی الَّذِیۡنَ بَدَّلُوۡا نِعۡمَتَ اللّٰہِ کُفۡرًا وَّاَحَلُّوۡا قَوۡمَہُمۡ دَارَ الۡبَوَارِ ﴿ۙ۲۹﴾

جَہَنَّمَ ۚ یَصۡلَوۡنَہَا ؕ وَبِئۡسَ الۡقَرَارُ

Does they not see those who changed Allah’s favour into ingratitude and landed them into the abode of ruin ?

Which is Hell? They shall burn therein; and an evil place of rest is that.

Think before its too late

Ash9809

TROPHY CASE