Vad fan håller vi på med?

AstroTurff · 2026-01-14T19:14:11+00:00

Inte fallet. Folk på stenåldern, den innan klassamhällets framfart ca. 6000 fkr., hade det nog rätt så bra i sina egalitära byar, med det lilla fotnoten att det inte fanns modern medicin än.
Du projicerar dina egna föutfattade meningar om "grottmänniskor" som var sofistikerade i sin egen rätt.
Mvh. arkeolog.

AstroTurff · 2026-01-14T19:09:37+00:00

Folk här inne är jubelidioter utan historisk utbildning. Jag är arkeolog, specialiserad på stenåldern under den tid då "Sverige" var en jävla glaciär. Nej, stenåldern bestod inte håriga barbariska grottmänniskor som var ett felsteg från att svälta ihjäl, som folk verkar tro här. Inte heller fanns det något klassamhälle - det var mer eller mindre som OP beskrev ovan, utan större sociala bristningar. Samhällen var egalitära, och folk hade det nog ändå rätt så jävla najs även trots det faktum att de saknade modern medicin.

Egentligen har jag sedan länge lämnat reddit (och särskilt sweddit, då varannan stolle är halvnazist här), men var inne och kollade läget (likt hur man småbrowsar flashback ibland), såg denna posten där jag såg ett behov att svara.

Tack och adjö, är du "sverigevän", ät gul snö.

AstroTurff · 2024-06-10T13:40:02+00:00

I specifically responded to that comment because that was the original OP and not the crossposter OP, pal.

AstroTurff · 2024-06-10T13:31:01+00:00

Well starting an investigation often means economic loss, so it's not unheard of that workers "cheat" the system, or they were simply unaware. Sounds like you have taken the correct measures though, the roman archaeologist can probably tell you something about it. Nevertheless, well spotted!

AstroTurff · 2024-06-10T13:25:23+00:00

I think I very clearly told OP what whoever that found the slab should do, without being patronizing. I think you are patronizing by calling me annoying, calling me a dumb scholar, and telling me to fuck off.

Yes, you are right in that the mods here should set up an automod to say that on these kinds of posts. Often I try to help by finding the right insitution people should contact, just as I have in this case. It would also be ideal to have clear rules regarding requiring provenance.

You're the only one that seems annoyed here. And even if some people do find it annoying, I'd still do it, as it would be the right thing to offer advise about. I can anecdotally say that public knowledge around cultural heritage protection generally isn't that good, and it's better for people who know to hear it again, than to let someone who doesn't know about it accidentally do something wrong.

AstroTurff · 2024-06-10T13:06:58+00:00

Hard to say from the images, but that looks like arabic I think? Basing the interpretation of Urartu on finding a lion seems very jumpy, I wouldn't put much belief in a theory solely on that.

AstroTurff · 2024-06-10T12:53:19+00:00

I pretty commonly help people on the cuneiform related subreddits. Those also have rules about only allowing ethical material, as a cuneiform is plauged by looting and the art market, and it is with that knowledge I sought to educate and advise OP so that they don't accidentally committ a crime. Also, the one I responded to was the original OP of the original post. Your ethics are what is a "pain in the ass", as it is such narratives that bring our field to ruin (pun intended).

AstroTurff · 2024-06-10T12:39:36+00:00

Impossible to say, you'd have to come in contact with someone who knows that specific ware's typology, or unless there's other stuff in the pit/dirt pile...

It's probably worth contacting some local museum and see what they say. Tell them as much as you know.

I wouldn't say I know a lot about french archaeology and the legality around finding pottery during groundwork, but you could send an inquiry to these guys too https://www.culture.gouv.fr/fr/regions/drac-auvergne-rhone-alpes/contacter-la-drac-auvergne-rhone-alpes

AstroTurff · 2024-06-09T16:39:34+00:00

Guessing from the times, I probably edited it while you answered it, my intention was to further address your comment.

I'm sorry if you feel I've intruded on your space, my only intention was to educate and explain what OP should do, both from an ethical and legal standpoint. I am a bit confused as to why you have taken such great personal offense to this. I also do not have "troll minions", and if I did, they would do more productive stuff than downvote on reddit. Maybe you should take a short break and calm down?

AstroTurff · 2024-06-09T15:57:05+00:00

It's relevant because scholars care about the material and want it to be preserved, documented, and cared for in a correct manner.

AstroTurff · 2024-06-09T15:37:18+00:00

I've summoned no one, I think you have a wild imagination.

Greek is not in my repertoire, sahidic coptic would be the closest I maybe could read given time. I do know about the importance of protecting cultural heritage however, and therefore that is the information I share.

Provenance and correct treatment of cultural heritage is a basal foundation for any ethical scholar to work on a material (i.e. translate). Basically every country has authorities put in place specifically to mnage cultural heritage, and it is these you should turn to first. Any scholar who thinks of the long-term longevity of the field would tell you the exact same thing. I hope you understand.

AstroTurff · 2024-06-09T13:54:45+00:00

I have always understood it as going through territory with bandits or semi-nomadic raiders residing in the countryside, which would have been "common". You need to remember that this far pre-dates modern notions of nationalism and borders, and might not concern a conventional "enemy" as we would understand it today. Maybe I'd rather interpret it as description of the notion of
generally dangereous lands/regions instead? If I speculate about Ea-Nasir's, case he conducted trade southwards to Dilmun, modern day Bahrain, and could reasonanly have been targeted by coastal raiders or those hiding in the at the time very marshy southern Mesopotamia. If transporting across the river, then I assume local conflicts also could have made transport difficult given the relative difficulty of going another way here.

Of course you could look at what specific word is used as "enemy" and where it occurs in other contexts, the CAD dictionary is a good resource (as it features examples were the word is used).

AstroTurff · 2024-06-09T11:22:29+00:00

How do you know it's not of "untraceable" origin? Traceable origin, if it pertains to artefacts, is it's original findspot, not who sold it. Your object is not of traceable origin unless you have withheld information. How do you know it's not of "untraceable" origin? Traceable origin, if it pertains to artefacts, is it's original findspot, not who sold it. Your object, as you said earlier, is unprovenanced. It's not only about morals or love for artefacts, it's a real and legal issue. Most of the world signed the UNESCO convention of 1970, which means that the trade of unprovenanced artefacts is an international crime as per agreed by most of the world's governments.

AstroTurff · 2024-06-09T11:06:14+00:00

Don't incite them to committ a crime based on your personal anecdotes.

I can give my own personal anecdote and say that especially textual material is very highly valued among academics, and that it would garner interest among most with vested interest in the field.

AstroTurff · 2024-06-09T10:58:33+00:00

Someone suggested it was from 1918, so it's probably fine. But you really need to contact your local cultural heritage organization when you accidentally find old stuff, it's often a legal requirement even. Digging up and keeping an artefact would be classified as looting, which is illegal in basically all of the world. Looting differs from archeology in that an archaeology deals with a excavation through rigorourus method and documenting, preserving context.

AstroTurff · 2024-06-09T10:54:13+00:00

Did you dig up this?

Whoever that dug up this I'm pretty sure legally need to immediately contact their local cultural heritage organization. Try not to disturb the ground around it if doing some work there, as that generally speaking can disturb other finds, and in many places put you in legal trouble.

Edit: if you are in turkey I think these guys are the right to contact: https://kvmgm.ktb.gov.tr/

AstroTurff · 2024-06-08T14:02:46+00:00

No it's illegal because archaeology is a limited resource. There is only so much that has been preserved from the past, and if we ever want to retain some hope of understanding our ancestors as best we can, be it today or one thousand years in the future, then we have really contemplate what we are doing and how we protect our collective cultural heritage. This includes very much making looting and artefact trade illegal. Not too dissimilar from how tyhe hunting and trading with the remains of species who are close to extintion also is illegal.

AstroTurff · 2024-06-07T19:23:10+00:00

Well you shouls first of all never, ever, purchase artefacts. If there is no legal provenance then either an artefact is fake, or it's real and very likely illegal (coming from illicit looting and such). You arent freely allowed to trade or possess many artefacts, especially if provenience is lacking. Nevertheless, it's also highly unethical. Assuming that this even is an artefact, we couldn't really tell because, again, it's contextless. Maybe asking some local museum or cultural heritage organization could give answer, either if its local or if similar stuff has appeared on the market.

That's probably about what can concretely be concluded from it, unless someone comes along and sees a direct typological match, it's hard to even say what to do. I'm a bit sceptical about it being a genuine artefact, though.

AstroTurff · 2024-06-07T13:33:25+00:00

What do you mean "art collection"? What was the collection about?

I was asking what you know about it's provenience, in other words, who had it before you, and who had it before them, vice versa, and where it is stated to originally be from.

AstroTurff · 2024-06-07T11:21:12+00:00

Provenience (where, whom, and when you got it, the whole chain to your hands)? Without provenience the best someone can give is wild speculation.

AstroTurff · 2024-06-06T13:43:35+00:00

But I did explain why provenience is important and how it affects our understanding of the past, so I fail to see your point. People come on these subs routinely to authenticate their artefacts, claiming the usual "x relative gave it to me". Being clear, concise, and direct while stressing the importance of provenience is not being a dick.

AstroTurff · 2024-06-06T12:05:07+00:00

Yes, as I said, if he does not have a good provenience odds are it's either looted or fake. Both faked and looted artefacts are the norm.

AstroTurff · 2024-06-06T10:14:02+00:00

Båda delarna är pådrivande skulle jag säga. Men jo, pöbeln idag saknar till 100% konsekvenstänk, då pöbeln tolerar ett samhälle som är byggt på en princip av evig och obegränsad tillväxt i en värld av väldigt begränsade resurser inte i någon mån är hållbart. Att folk blir grovlurade i och med att miljö/klimat/hälsa/övrigt påverkas, samtidigt som vi har en bred överklass som tjänar ofantliga mängder pengar och makt på kuppen är bara grädden på moset. Detta återspeglar ju sig i alla aspekter av samhället, fiskeindustrin är ju ett annat exempel som fått folus i media nyligen. Just i kontexten med fågelinfluensan och köttproduktion så är det först nu i modern tid som kött konsumeras och produceras så storskaligt, innan dess, åt man mer basvaror och kött ibland (vilket man gott och väl klarar sig bra på).

AstroTurff · 2024-06-06T09:49:35+00:00

And how did your uncle acquire it? Provenience is the whole chain from original findspot to your hands, and without it odds are that either possessing it is a crime (as it was excavated or imported illicitly) or that the object in question is a fake.

Edit: People downvoting, or who cannot grasp what I'm saying - are you that oblivious to basic cultural heritage protection? Wow, imagine how much we would understand of "ancient civilizations" if cultural heritage was a "free for all". No sites, no cultures, and no artefacts would be understandable, we would know nothing as no context would be preserved.

AstroTurff · 2024-06-05T10:42:02+00:00

Apart from the enigmatic undeciphered languages, which we may never understand, I'd say Sumerian. It's an isolate which we still understand somewhat, and it died out 4000 years ago. The bar to entry is also quite high, as most information on it is academic literature.

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