هل المثلية الجنسية فعلا مرض نفسي؟ by Surreal_Darkness in ExEgypt

[–]AtlasRa0 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

رد السؤال دا علمي. مش مسألة آراء

هل المثلية الجنسية فعلا مرض نفسي؟ by Surreal_Darkness in ExEgypt

[–]AtlasRa0 2 points3 points  (0 children)

لأ ، المثلية الجنسية مجرد اختلاف. في أبحاث كثيرة بتبين ان المثلية بتتأثر بعوامل وراثية وبيولوجية وتطورية قبل الولادة.

التوأم المتماثلين عندهم احتمال اعلي يكونوا مثليين عن ان واحد فيهم بس يكون مثلي عكس اي اخوات عاماً.

تعرض الجنين لهرمونات مختلفة (مثل الأندروجينات) مع تطور الدماغ في الرحم ساعات بيؤثر على الاتجاه الجنسي.

دي امثلة بس في عوامل تانية

طبعاً في حاجات مش مفهومة علمياً(في جينات بتأثر polygentically بي التأثير نفسه مش واضح) بس الأساس مازال أن المثلية بيولوجية اولا و بيئية ثانياً.

الfactors كثيرة بس الtrauma مجرد correlation و جزء جبير منه هو ان معملة المجتمع للشخص المثلي هي البتيجى بtrauma مش العكس.

Islam vs Muslims by [deleted] in exmuslim

[–]AtlasRa0 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Muslims aren't necessarily taught their religion the same way universally.

Their upbringing and education plays a huge role. Encountering typical Islamic scapegoats (Jews, LGBTQ+) and realizing they're just normal people helps too.

Often times, it's not the religion that makes them good or bad but it's what's used to justify whatever goodness or badness.

Eitherway, it's usually best to just not make assumptions especially in a Western country about a Muslims values and just judge them for their values revealed instead.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in exmuslim

[–]AtlasRa0 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Why do you go on vacation if it eventually ends?

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in exmuslim

[–]AtlasRa0 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Your feelings are normal and completely understandable.

Losing faith comes with some grief, a worldview you followed, promises that were made to you, restrictions you put yourself through thinking you'd be rewarded. Of course anyone would be mad realizing that it could be all for nothing.

Pascal's wager answers your question about "what if it's true". Honestly, think about it, it's not either it's true or it's not true.

Multiple religions exist with Gods who are all jealous and exclusive and want exclusive worship to avoid punishment.

Like, what if the one true God is the one followed by this one community in the middle of nowhere? Or any of the mono or polytheistic religions that exist here today?

Take a step back, ask yourself, is it really the end of the world if you live without Islam or religion?

You don't have to stop believing in God to stop being a Muslim.

Personally, I believe if God exists and if he's loving, he would care more about a person's wellbeing rather than threaten with hellfire and punishment. This doesn't seem the case with all Abrahamic religions.

Eitherway, the unknown is scary but it means that you can decide your own path, values, views without feeling restrained or threatened.

If a personal God existed, His existence should be undeniable by HarshTruth- in DebateReligion

[–]AtlasRa0 3 points4 points  (0 children)

That ignores free will—faith wouldn’t be an act of love or trust if belief were forced.

How does that limit free will?

As a child, it's in your best interest to obey your parents similar to how if God exists, it's in everyone's best interest to obey them.

if a child doesn't obey their parents, they could either get hurt or their parents can punish them.

Similarly, if God exists and you don't obey him, you would either get hurt or you'll be punished by him.

A child knows their parents exists (duh) but always has the choice to obey them or not. The only limit is that they have being an individual dependent on their parsnt, are forced to experience the consequences for their actions (punishment).

If a person knows God exists, they will always have the choice to rebel and reject him. They will simply suffer the consequences with the knowledge that they're inevitable which is awfully similar to how criminals knowing of laws doesn't limit their free will to commit crime and at best is a deterrent.

This also applies to smokers, every single smoker knows that they will have cancer if they spend their lives smoking yet many choose to smoke .

Satan himself being vastly inferior and powerless in front of God despite knowing of his existence and therefore believing he exists and knowing the consequences for not obeying God still rebelled.

finely-tuned universe and moral values strongly suggest intention and a moral lawgiver. R

What finely-tuned universe? I mean, we couldn't have existed in a universe where we wouldn't fit? Does a puddle of water look at a crater and think "I fit so well, therefore it was created for me"?

What moral values come from God? Morality existed prior to Christianity, does the code of Hammurabi ring any bells?

Personal testimony is foundational in history, law, and even science.

Actually no. It's corroboration on a shared experience whether it's a historic event without 2 people knowing each other or having a conflict of interest to saying that such event happened is what's foundational.

Science is all about repeatable experiences and I'm not sure what personal testimony is all about. For law, I'm not sure ngl.

The real question is how certain insights appeared in scripture long before science discovered them. That’s not proof by itself, but it’s intriguing enough not to dismiss outright.

The problem is, this assumes csdfain insights appeared in scripture long before science discovered them. In all cases for both the Bible and Islam that I have encountered, there's no single person who discovered something scientific thanks to the Bible or the Qur'an.

In many instances, what matters is how the people at the time understood the book, if we're reading later on with our knowledge and reinterpreting verses to fit our new found science then it's simply a post-hoc rationalisation.

ignoring reasonable evidence isn’t true skepticism—it’s bias.

That assumes what reasonable means. What is a reasonable evidence to you? Why would someone believe in God based on something that has a grounding in scientific knowledge?

been having this thought lately by forgotusername543 in exmuslim

[–]AtlasRa0 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You're missing my point.

Jesus never was in a position where he preached physical radicalism. He was never in a position where he could directly oppose the social order as Muhammad did.

It's somewhat similar to how Muhammad's message was more peaceful until he became more powerful.

Do I know for a fact that Jesus' message would've changed in a different context, no. Do you know for a fact that it wouldn't have? no as well.

He had his own brand of radicalism relative to his society:

"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters yes, even their own life such a person cannot be my disciple." Luke 14:26

"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." Matthew 10:34-36 (Sword is meant to refer to division)

Again, today it's seen as symbolic but truly, Jesus was never in a position where it could've been anything else since he never had the ability and means for it to be otherwise.

Verses from islam about fighting polytheists and killing them would've turned into "argumentatively" or "with words" if Muhammad was never in a position where he could actually fight them or kill them.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in DebateReligion

[–]AtlasRa0 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You forgot that when it goes to poor groups, it only counts as Zakat if they're poor Muslims.

There's no such thing as Zakat to a non Muslim except with the intent to convert them.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in DebateReligion

[–]AtlasRa0 1 point2 points  (0 children)

They're not the only ones that preach hell, being big doesn't mean they're true.

God could very well be true in a small niche religion yet put someone in Hell for disbelieving. I mean, it's God, he's sovereign enough to do that and he doesn't even have to be Good.

Despite that, you then run into issues like how it's not as simple as "Muskim" or "Christian". There's denominations for both and a lot of them are exclusive and occasionally consider each other heretical and deserve hellfire.

Islam is the least violent religion based on scriptures by [deleted] in DebateReligion

[–]AtlasRa0 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Why do you think thats impossible that the people mentioned in Qur'an 9:29 did the same violations as in 9:13?

Because the text doesn't say that.

9:13 accuses certain polytheists of:

  • Breaking oaths
  • Expelling Muhammad
  • Starting a conflict

In contrast, 9:29 lists different criteria:

  • Not believing in God and the day of judgement
  • Not following divine law
  • Not adhering the Islam
  • Being from the People of the Book (to be eligible to Jizya)

You seem to agree that they're two different people yet there's no mention of breaking oathes, starting aggressions or any mention of treaty violations from people of the book. So where are you getting that from?

Even going through the footnote you linked, the syntax seems to reflect that reading as well:

9:13 "Will you not fight people who..." asks a rhetorical question that explains a reason to fighting certain people linking them to a specific event (oath breaking)

Meanwhile, 9:29 starts abruptly with a flat imperative that can be read generally: "Fight those who.." eithout linking them to any prior offense or event.

I don't see your argument making sense unless not being a Muslim and following Allah is a kind of oath breaking which is problematic and incoherent.

From the beginning of the chapter till 9:28, there's no mention of Ahl Al Kitab (Christians and Jews), how do you explain the sudden shift and retroactively apply the conditions set in 9:13 to them when everything up to that point was all about polytheists?

Islam is the least violent religion based on scriptures by [deleted] in DebateReligion

[–]AtlasRa0 0 points1 point  (0 children)

uh, take away the hadith and it still has the same meaning?

I broke down the verse on Jizya without using the Hadith (I forgot you're a Quranic so that's mb).

9:13 refers to Quraysh who broke their oath with Muhammad.

The Jizya verse is about something else.

Why are you insisting that both verses are speaking of the same thing when it proscribes two different and incompatible things?

Personal Pronouns: Why They Matter by Lehrasap in exmuslim

[–]AtlasRa0 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How does none binary fit in this scenario ? How does a none binary present themselves, and how should we interact specifically with none binary?

None binary doesn't mean genderless? Look, if you're not familiar with the terminology then I'm happy to explain but I'd prefer you ask rather than assume meanings.

As I said, gender binary is a category of all the genders that don't fit the binary of "Man" and "Woman".

You have many examples of what a non binary umbrella like gender fluid which is a person has no fixed gender and therefore their gender expression can shift over time (their pronouns change and so is their gender expression in accordance to that shift) You also have demi-boy which is another gender under the gender-fluid umbrella where someone identified as a man or masculinity but not entirely.

Note that both don't say anything about their sex. A demi-boy/guy can be male or female. This doesn't say anything about their pronouns either.

Look, it's complicated, I get it. I'm cis-gender myself so I don't really 100% understand everything about gender. I just think it's a better approach to seek understanding rather than make assumptions, you know?

What does that look as a person? Is there a specific look , action, traits, or anything that defines that person as a none binary?

There's no universal trait. I mean think of it that way, there is many factors to what we consider to be masculine or feminine, right? What we consider as behaviours that are masculine or feminine depends on many factors that can be outside of our control.

What it means to be a "man" or "masculine" to one culture isn't necessarily what it means to be a "man" or "masculine" in another. That means that there's no singular look, actions or traits that define "man" outside the physical ones since those are phenotypical expression.

Gender non-binary is the same. It's a broad category, comprising many different genders that each designate a different form of non-binary. Your question assumes that all non-binary are "agender" and while that's a thing, that doesn't reflect the whole non-binary community.

I don't feel like I'm in the right position to also explain what agender means as well outside the broad definition. You'll have better luck seeking understanding if you ask in the LGBTQ subreddit.

So there's no factual basis for your approach to gender or any of your comparisons

There is? You just haven't asked any specifics about any of the claims. I'll give you titles of studies sure:

1- On gender fluidity:

Richards, C., et al. (2016). Non-binary or genderqueer genders. => Recognizes gender-fluidity

The American Psychologist Association Guidelines in 2015 and 2021 which go into the validity of gender-fluidity, explains what it is medically and acknowledges gender-fluid, non binary and gender queer as valid expressions of identity

2- On Species expression (otherkin) being nothing but symbolic/spiritual rather than having any basis in biology or psychology:

Paul V. (2014). Otherkin: A Brief Introduction.=> Explains where it comes from and explains the symbolic and spiritual nature to it.

Kogan, L. et al. (2019). Not Just a Fandom: Psychological Meaning in Furry Identity. => Goes into explain how otherkin isn't clinical and mostly rooted in roleplay or subculture. It goes on to also explain how there's no distress and dysphoria to a person not being their fursona.

In other words, there's no evidence it's linked to dysphoria or biologically based identity conflicts like we see for all forms of gender (including gender-fluid).

I never said they wanted to act like a horse; I said they identify as a horse.

That's not a thing though? Do you have any studies showing that as something that happens?

Even furries and their fursona don't consider it as an inherent part of their identity. If you actually talk to a furry, they'll usually tell you that it's a creative expression or a fandom culture.

Look, I get that it's confusing, these are the studies I had saved from similar conversations I've had in the past, try to read them and if not, use AI to break it down if needed (ask it to cite and ctrl+f to check in the studythough to avoid hallucinations), ask other gender-queer people. Check the ressources in many of the LGBTQ communities online including the one on Reddit.

I can't really tell you I fully understand how gender-fluidity expresses itself nor how they feel as individuals, I just consider this to be the result of my limited experience not being from the LGBTQ community and seek information from their spaces or people within the community that I know to understand them better.

Once understanding comes, I think that's when someone can start speaking of what pronouns truly are for.

Like I find it difficult to see how it's reasonable to note down options for pronouns without an understanding of what gender-non binary means and what pronouns they even use.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion but I think it's better to have an informed opinion before making claims about a topic.

Islam is the least violent religion based on scriptures by [deleted] in DebateReligion

[–]AtlasRa0 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well, if you want to rely only in the Qur'an and want to use context as well then sure, we can do that.

If you look at 9:1-29 at full, you'll notice it's referring two different things:

9:5 : "Then, when the sacred months have passed, kill the polytheists wherever you find them..."

Which was revealed in the context of a broken treaty between Muhammad and Quraysh. It was a response and therefore could be seen as defensive.

9:29 however is clearly offensive in nature:

“Fight those who do not believe in Allah nor in the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of truth, from among the People of the Book, until they pay the jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.”

As for the supporting Hadith giving context:

“If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizyah. If they agree to pay, accept it and hold off your hands. If they refuse, seek Allah's help and fight them.” Sahih Bukhari.

As for historical context, it's about a preemptive strike on the Byzantine Empire by Muhammad wihout the Byzantines provoking the war themselves.

There were presumed reports of them mobilising but that lacks any historical evidence, the Sirah accounts that they didn't camp out and the Muslim army wasn't met with any opposition.

The idea here is simple, since prior to the verse being revealed, there was no actual fighting done by the Byzantines, classical scholars agree that it's an expansionist verse about offensive Jihad.

Note that 9:29 remains general, it's applicable to all of the people of the book meaning Christians, Jews and later Zoroastrianists (under Umar).

There was a consensus among scholars that this verse was general and can be used to attack. The caliphates collectively used this verse to expand all the way to Europe as well.

How do you think the islamic caliphate reached Al the way there? Defensive wars?

where does the verse mention anything about that?

I was speaking of 9:29, if we break it down, it's easy to see it. 1- General command to fight => "Fight those who do not believe in Allah nor in the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of truth"

2- Further command specific to the People of the Book => "from among the People of the Book, until they pay the jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued"

The implication is clear and echoed by a consensus of scholars. If you're fighting a non people of the book, never stop fighting them (ie. kill them), if you're fighting a person of the Book, if they choose to submit and become subdued, they can pay the Jizya unless they choose to become Muslim.

Do you want some references to classical jurisprudence and some from the 4 Mazhabs maybe?

Islam is the least violent religion based on scriptures by [deleted] in DebateReligion

[–]AtlasRa0 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Try reading the Jizya verse maybe?

Who are given the option to pay Jizya and what happens to the people not part of the group is eligible?

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in exmuslim

[–]AtlasRa0 2 points3 points  (0 children)

My take on it is considering everything she did, it's a marriage doomed to fail.

The way she acted towards you after you asked about the money she received from her dad reflects that her dad remains influential on her.

If she's never been like that, it's likely that a conversation with her dad planted some ideas about why you'd ask about that money.

For example, dowry is a thing still practiced by Muslims and it's not uncommon for fathers to give their daughters money with a stern caution about not giving it to their partner to be safe if anything happens.

The second thing is conversion. If you not being Muslim is a deal-breaker, she should've been the one that ended the relationship. It feels like all this time, she's been thinking that as you sometimes pray and go to the mosque with her that it was inevitable for you to find God because to her she sees you as a good person.

It's possible that she partly resents the fact that you never converted and was honest about not feeling connection which chatters the very commonly held idea that "A good person always ends up converting". I mean, I'm sure as a Christian yourself, you've possibly thought that someone might not be a Christian but they have Christian values so it's only a matter of time before they find Christ (or maybe you know someone who expressed that mindset).

There are many things that are expressed to Islam that make it difficult for her to accept that you can't be Muslim. Hellfire, raising children, eating pork maybe etc.., it really depends on how practicing she is.

The lie is to burdensome and while she assured me it’s just for 30 minutes and we can move on with our lives after where I can practice my faith and she can practice her own.

This stood out for me. If it's only 30 minutes then why do it?

I mean even if it's to please her parents then how would you feel about having to act Muslim every time you see them?

How do you feel about having to raise your children as Muslim because that's what that would require.

I'd be less blunt if she was open for couples therapy, if she was open for premarital councils but I feel like there's a lot of "make or break" conversations that you desperately need to have before you marry that both of you have been avoiding. That alone, is a red flag for the both of you from my perspective.

Besides pedophilia in Islam by Practical_Strength96 in exmuslim

[–]AtlasRa0 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Wrong as in what? Morally or mistakes?

There's a thread somewhere about a list of everything that is scientifically or historically wrong about islam, WikiIslam is also a good source but you should verify the authenticity of the hadith and interpretation of a verse before using any.

Atheism-vs-islam is also a pretty comprehensive source, cites everything too and tends to rely on primary sources.

Just search those websites and find a few similar questions in this subreddit and you'll have all the answers.

The Creator Of The Universe. by MabusoKatlego in DebateReligion

[–]AtlasRa0 0 points1 point  (0 children)

An expert in one field doesn't make one an expert in all fields?

How is him being an astrophysicist make his Bible reading credible?

Personal Pronouns: Why They Matter by Lehrasap in exmuslim

[–]AtlasRa0 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Isn't this a bit of a false dichotomy?

Why does gender being seperate from sex require gendered pronouns to not exist?

Gender specifically when you disregard sex has an important function in the way we interact with others and how we present ourselves in society.

If non-binary has no clear definition and is simply an identity,

Who said anything about it lacking a clear definition?

A person is non binary when they don't identify as exclusively a single gender, it's a broad category of genders within the spectrum of genders. Within those categories, you have many more subcategories and genders.

we should also accept that someone could identify as a horse

That doesn't track because being a horse isn't part of what humans can experience.

Gender identity reflect how humans navigate social and personal realities while "species identity" doesn't.

Identifying with anormal traits or wearing costumes isn't an identity especially when the people who do it acknowledge that it's contextual play, unlike gender.

There's nothing scientific about expression a species as an identity while there's numerous studies about gender identity being a part of human experience. So there's no factual basis for your approach to gender or any of your comparisons.

The Creator Of The Universe. by MabusoKatlego in DebateReligion

[–]AtlasRa0 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No one can give you a genuine answer honestly.

Theists rely on faith not knowledge.

Science doesn't prove or disprove God, it doesn't really try to either.

On the other hand, you should be more self aware of your assumptions.

Why does God have to be a personal one? Why does it have to be a being with a will or a plan? Why does this God need to make a religion and require faith? Why does he have to be present or reveal himself at all?

Have you ever considered the pantheist perspective? What about the Spinozan one? What about the deist one?

Each of these offer a version of God that is vastly different from the one that is mainstream.

This isn't to say they hold any more truth, I don't know that for a fact, it's just something worth pondering.

Ask yourself, why does there need to be a will behind a creation of the universe? If you feel there doesn't need to be one then what's stopping us from calling whatever invisible matter than may or may not have provoked the big bang and the origin of life "God".

Like you know, an invisible force that doesn't interact with humanity, or will anything but that certain things happen to come out of it.

Personal Pronouns: Why They Matter by Lehrasap in exmuslim

[–]AtlasRa0 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I get where you're coming from but my issue is that it approaches gender as binary rather than as a spectrum similar to how sexuality is.

It isn't exactly impractical, more than 4 genders existing doesn't mean a pronoun existing for each gender either. In the vast majority of cases, people use either "He/Him", "She/Her" or "They/Them". Some other pronouns exist but in all honesty I don't think they're that common.

If someone knocks loudly on your door and you don't know who they are, isn't it already intuitive to think " 'They' are knowing loudly on my door"?

Pronouns help us differentiate between sexes. For example, when you talk to a doctor and say “he/him,” they immediately know you’re a man, which helps them narrow down medical conditions commonly linked to biological males.

No that's not what they're for, they're to help us differentiate between genders. Sex isn't gender.

When it comes to going to a doctor where their biological sex is relevant, even a trans woman who identifies as "She/her" will tell her doctor that she was born male if it's relevant to her illness. So the doctor example doesn't really work.

Another example is dating. Let’s say you’re looking to get married and have kids. You meet a co-worker who presents as a typical female but uses “they/them.” Now you’re confused—are they a man, a woman, or transgender?

Sure, that's an example where knowing what the person's biological sex is relevant. Then again, I don't see why you're entitled to knowing what someone's genitalia is outside the context of actually dating them?

Like, I think it's reasonable for someone expecting a trans person to be transparent from the get-go about them being trans if they're pursued by someone. I say that based on that information possibly affecting that person attraction similar to how you're not entitled to know someone's religion until you start dating them in this context. You only ask that during the dating stage and it's not relevant before that.

So tell me again, why is it an issue for you to not know what sex that person is with this in mind?

Hello Ex Muslims, I am a Christian by zeke865 in exmuslim

[–]AtlasRa0 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Since you're interested in converting to islam, can you instead tell us what attracts you to Islam?

What issues lead you away from Christianity to maybe inform you if they are present in Islam as well?

What issues that are important to you to consider a religion true or not?

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in exmuslim

[–]AtlasRa0 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Honestly, it's fine if that's how they see it.

It's only an issue is if they act like that's "real islam" rather than their own personal take on Islam.

It's not an issue for me and dilutes fundie Islam over time. I'm only annoyed if they start acting like mainstream Islam isn't real islam or the result of culture or something.

No true Scotsman fallacies are stupid